Future Draft/Trading Strategy

[Markfs]

Really? Apart from Shaz and Kelly, which other players were injured pre-draft? Dawes is the only other 1 I can think of and that's going back quite a ways.

heres a bit of an example with sier

AFL draft 2015: Collingwood surprises by selecting Brayden Sier, Rupert Wills

Who? Pies strategy not black or white

www.foxsports.com.au

but there might be better examples. but if you dont think so, fair enuf. i just think sometimes he likes sexy picks in the draft to promote his reputation and i'm not sure if he is always getting a cohesive team together. Stephenson with this heart stuff is sort of an example.

The other thing that gets me about Hine is that he says hes into "good family" draft picks...and then some of the guys picked are a bit flaky or are bad trainers or are high maintenance... It just seems a bit contradictory to me. He's obviously stayed clear of indigenous talent and it appears that he has a similar attitude as matt rendell.... that might be a bit guilt by association but he likes to be known as someone who picks left field picks but not when it comes to indigenous players. But overall, he's ok and he's had limited opportunities in recent years to pick top end players.

 

[LuckyLee]

Oops. No. Should Appleby remain he'll need to be promoted

Why would we keep Appleby? He has shown nothing at senior level to suggest he can be an important and dependable part of a team vying for a Premiership. Delist him and give more opportunity to one of our recent draftees.

We hang on to deadwood players too long. I’m sure they’re all terrific people who love the club but we need to be more ruthless in the management of the bottom half of our list.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[jackcass]

heres a bit of an example with sier

AFL draft 2015: Collingwood surprises by selecting Brayden Sier, Rupert Wills

Who? Pies strategy not black or white

www.foxsports.com.au

but there might be better examples. but if you dont think so, fair enuf. i just think sometimes he likes sexy picks in the draft to promote his reputation and i'm not sure if he is always getting a cohesive team together. Stephenson with this heart stuff is sort of an example.

The other thing that gets me about Hine is that he says hes into "good family" draft picks...and then some of the guys picked are a bit flaky or are bad trainers or are high maintenance... It just seems a bit contradictory to me. He's obviously stayed clear of indigenous talent and it appears that he has a similar attitude as matt rendell.... that might be a bit guilt by association but he likes to be known as someone who picks left field picks but not when it comes to indigenous players. But overall, he's ok and he's had limited opportunities in recent years to pick top end players.

They're left field selections but neither Sier or Wills had injury issues in their draft years. Wills had been playing with our VFL side, Sier largely off the radar although the rumour was that the Doggies were keen.

 

[barrackers]

Why would we keep Appleby? He has shown nothing at senior level to suggest he can be an important and dependable part of a team vying for a Premiership. Delist him and give more opportunity to one of our recent draftees.

We hang on to deadwood players too long. I’m sure they’re all terrific people who love the club but we need to be more ruthless in the management of the bottom half of our list.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I wasn't advocating keeping Appleby. If the top half of the list isn't immune to ruthlessness then the bottom half certainly shouldn't escape hard calls either.

 

[jackcass]

Why would we keep Appleby? He has shown nothing at senior level to suggest he can be an important and dependable part of a team vying for a Premiership. Delist him and give more opportunity to one of our recent draftees.

We hang on to deadwood players too long. I’m sure they’re all terrific people who love the club but we need to be more ruthless in the management of the bottom half of our list.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

I think Apples, Wills and Lynch are all likely hanging on by a thread and the likelihood of them being at the club in 2021 is dependent upon our projected draft outcome. There are 2x list lodgment's between now and the draft, 1 post ND and rookie drafts.

All 3 would be cheap depth and have shown enough at VFL level to merit retention.

 

[Rusty Beam]

I can see us trading up the order to prevent a bid on Reef... only to see a bid on Reef anyway. And losing a bid in the process.

I reckon we trade our first with Gws for their Pick 13, on the proviso that they not bid on Reef. (The trade of stevo to north on favourable terms, may have also had a similar proviso)

Realistically given we hold basically all picks after 12, we’ll stand a good chance and getting in before a bid comes for him.

The one club I’d be worried about bidding on Reef may be Freo. Longmuir/Boyd would have had at least some exposure to Reef on the rare occasions he had been training etc with the club.

I think there is a distinct possibility we can end up taking 3 first round picks plus Reef.

 

[OniAu]

I reckon we trade our first with Gws for their Pick 13, on the proviso that they not bid on Reef. (The trade of stevo to north on favourable terms, may have also had a similar proviso)

Realistically given we hold basically all picks after 12, we’ll stand a good chance and getting in before a bid comes for him.

The one club I’d be worried about bidding on Reef may be Freo. Longmuir/Boyd would have had at least some exposure to Reef on the rare occasions he had been training etc with the club.

I think there is a distinct possibility we can end up taking 3 first round picks plus Reef.

Id be more worried about Dodoro.

Obviously an outisde view , but i cant see Boyd and Longmuir would be out to take him off us or force us to use an earlier pick .

 

[left at home]

I reckon we trade our first with Gws for their Pick 13, on the proviso that they not bid on Reef. (The trade of stevo to north on favourable terms, may have also had a similar proviso)

Realistically given we hold basically all picks after 12, we’ll stand a good chance and getting in before a bid comes for him.

The one club I’d be worried about bidding on Reef may be Freo. Longmuir/Boyd would have had at least some exposure to Reef on the rare occasions he had been training etc with the club.

I think there is a distinct possibility we can end up taking 3 first round picks plus Reef.

Essendon is the one, not freo

 

[Rusty Beam]

Essendon is the one, not freo

IMO Essendon’s pick are too early for Reef.

I know they obviously want a big bodied inside midfielder and they missed Dunkley, but they did get Caldwell (although not that big).

Given Reef’s obvious lack of endurance he isn’t going to be able to play many midfield minutes until he gets a couple of preseasons under his belt. I think Essendon ideally want more of a plug and play option.

But then again Dodoro, being Dadoro, may bid just to force our hand and disadvantage us.

 

[left at home]

IMO Essendon’s pick are too early for Reef.

I know they obviously want a big bodied inside midfielder and they missed Dunkley, but they did get Caldwell (although not that big).

Given Reef’s obvious lack of endurance he isn’t going to be able to play many midfield minutes until he gets a couple of preseasons under his belt. I think Essendon ideally want more of a plug and play option.

But then again Dodoro, being Dadoro, may bid just to force our hand and disadvantage us.

We did not take Cripps because of fitness, lesson learnt by all clubs, the kids is a dons supporter to. Dodo is mad enough to take that risk

 

[loki04]

That's more to do with not having 1st round picks available than a strategy.

Thats rubbish, he had no picks to take KPFs in 90% of drafts across 15 years?

Say that again?

 

[loki04]

IMO Essendon’s pick are too early for Reef.

I know they obviously want a big bodied inside midfielder and they missed Dunkley, but they did get Caldwell (although not that big).

Given Reef’s obvious lack of endurance he isn’t going to be able to play many midfield minutes until he gets a couple of preseasons under his belt. I think Essendon ideally want more of a plug and play option.

But then again Dodoro, being Dadoro, may bid just to force our hand and disadvantage us.

Endurance can be trained. It's interestingly one of Hines most valued assets but one of the most readily fixed with time.

Size (193cm) and Speed (record 2.78m 20m) can not be. And seems a great kid (well spoken and mannered) to boot.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Grundy's down season still had him among the top 1/2 dozen rucks in the league so I think that's a bit of a long bow.

The point being that if we’re deliberately setting out to assess our playing list with a very short memory, Stephenson isn’t the only one who would come off short of their best. He’s better than what he showed in 2020.

 

[loki04]

Yes, and Rendell said in his interview that that’s what we’ll do between now and draft.

Lets hope so. Pick what is it 14 and 16 which will be what 16 and 18? correct me if im wrong as i have seen multiple people say it different the drop down after bidding.

Apex36 : is it 16 and 18 or 18 and 20?

 

[loki04]

The point being that if we’re deliberately setting out to assess our playing list with a very short memory, Stephenson isn’t the only one who would come off short of their best. He’s better than what he showed in 2020.

Clearly the coaching staff don't believe he will ever transition from impact forward to something more consistent across 4 quarters or that his aversion to contact will remain.

Given the rumours about the other off field stuff maybe they made a call expecting to get more at the trade table. The real issue is why not wait 12 months when offered a s**t sandwich by norf and see where the landscape lies then?

It's like Guy was working off the philosophy anything's better then nothing.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Lets hope so. Pick what is it 14 and 16 which will be what 16 and 18? correct me if im wrong as i have seen multiple people say it different the drop down after bidding.

Apex36 : is it 16 and 18 or 18 and 20?

We don’t know yet when the NGA bids will come, but at a minimum you’d think the Bulldogs will match JUH from beyond our picks. Sydney are likely to have to match a bid after their first pick but before our first, so there’s another.

 

[manicpie]

We don’t know yet when the NGA bids will come, but at a minimum you’d think the Bulldogs will match JUH from beyond our picks. Sydney are likely to have to match a bid after their first pick but before our first, so there’s another.

Essendon are the ones that worry me. They would love to get Reef, just what they need

 

[Apex36]

Lets hope so. Pick what is it 14 and 16 which will be what 16 and 18? correct me if im wrong as i have seen multiple people say it different the drop down after bidding.

Apex36 : is it 16 and 18 or 18 and 20?

Looks likely to be 17 and 19 at this point, with GC pre-listing their academy guys and Dogs, Swans and PA prospects looking all top 10.

 

[jackcass]

Thats rubbish, he had no picks to take KPFs in 90% of drafts across 15 years?

Say that again?

Did you even read the post I responded to, and my response, or you just have some penchant for making yourself look silly?

The point was made we've taken 2 KPF's in the 1st round in 15 years. Of those 15 years we've only had 1st round picks in '05 (Thomas & Pendles); '06 (Reid and Brown); '08 (Sidey); '12 (Grundy, Kennedy & Broomy), '13 (Shaz & Freeman); '14 (JDG & Moore); 2017 (Stevo); and 2018 (IQ). The 2018 1st doesn't really count as we didn't actually have a 1st round pick but matched a bid. So less than 1/2 of the years 2005-2019 we've actually had 1st round picks and we've taken 2x KPF's.

As an observation, it's still overly simplistic as it ignores who we already had on the list in 2005 in Rocca and Cloke, and who we've traded in with players like White and Lynch, or players taken 2nd round or later like Dawes or McLarty.

 

[jackcass]

The point being that if we’re deliberately setting out to assess our playing list with a very short memory, Stephenson isn’t the only one who would come off short of their best. He’s better than what he showed in 2020.

I'm not disputing that but it's a stretch to lump Grundy in with guys like Stevo and Phillips. They were next level ordinary.

 

[loki04]

Did you even read the post I responded to, and my response, or you just have some penchant for making yourself look silly?

The point was made we've taken 2 KPF's in the 1st round in 15 years. Of those 15 years we've only had 1st round picks in '05 (Thomas & Pendles); '06 (Reid and Brown); '08 (Sidey); '12 (Grundy, Kennedy & Broomy), '13 (Shaz & Freeman); '14 (JDG & Moore); 2017 (Stevo); and 2018 (IQ). The 2018 1st doesn't really count as we didn't actually have a 1st round pick but matched a bid. So less than 1/2 of the years 2005-2019 we've actually had 1st round picks and we've taken 2x KPF's.

As an observation, it's still overly simplistic as it ignores who we already had on the list in 2005 in Rocca and Cloke, and who we've traded in with players like White and Lynch, or players taken 2nd round or later like Dawes or McLarty.

You should be taking KPF prospects 3 years out from your main expected KPF retirement age given the length it takes for them to be "ready" and needing sheltering as opposed to what we did to Darcy initially.



At what point do we say he didn't utilize the picks as he as list manager decided to trade them out? Like the 2 pick 7s on treloar? or the double picks in 20s for Aish?
Or the 2 firsts on Beams?

or the 2nd on Murray?

2013 was a monumental stuff up.

Moore is a free hit and hardly a Hine choice. Only an idiot wouldn't of taken him.

2017 Hine should of went with Naughton it was clear we needed KPP then. And yes I was worried about Naughtons kicking (before you bring it up) but Hine was apparently tossing up between Jayden and Naughton at the time and should of went the NEED pick (imo is the better player too).

He had a lot more info on the players and footage plus live games to see them then us plebs and is paid to make the right calls here.

And nope I didn't read the lead up posts only those posts you made and he made even without it I disagree with your notion, you make me look silly? LOL yet to see you do that you usually try and fall flat on your face.

 

[Ugene41]

You should be taking KPF prospects 3 years out from your main expected KPF retirement age given the length it takes for them to be "ready" and needing sheltering as opposed to what we did to Darcy initially.



At what point do we say he didn't utilize the picks as he as list manager decided to trade them out? Like the 2 pick 7s on treloar? or the double picks in 20s for Aish?
Or the 2 firsts on Beams?

or the 2nd on Murray?

2013 was a monumental stuff up.

Moore is a free hit and hardly a Hine choice. Only an idiot wouldn't of taken him.

2017 Hine should of went with Naughton it was clear we needed KPP then. And yes I was worried about Naughtons kicking (before you bring it up) but Hine was apparently tossing up between Jayden and Naughton at the time and should of went the NEED pick (imo is the better player too).

He had a lot more info on the players and footage plus live games to see them then us plebs and is paid to make the right calls here.

And nope I didn't read the lead up posts only those posts you made and he made even without it I disagree with your notion, you make me look silly? LOL yet to see you do that you usually try and fall flat on your face.

It's easy to say he should have picked Naughton now that we've traded Stephenson, but in terms of pure talent ID, Stephenson is still probably the better pick. If we're talking about needing a KPP forward because we need to kick more goals, well Stephenson has kicked more goals than Naughton over the last 3 years. And taken more marks inside 50.

You can also say the Moore and Kelly picks are no brainers but I wonder whether we go into drafts knowing that because we're expecting a F/S KPP to come in, we just go best available. Ie in 2017 tossing up between Stephenson and Naughton, we decided to go with best available in Stephenson knowing that we have Will Kelly

20

Will Kelly

Age

23

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

coming in the following year that will play a similar role.

 

[loki04]

It's easy to say he should have picked Naughton now that we've traded Stephenson, but in terms of pure talent ID, Stephenson is still probably the better pick. If we're talking about needing a KPP forward because we need to kick more goals, well Stephenson has kicked more goals than Naughton over the last 3 years. And taken more marks inside 50.

You can also say the Moore and Kelly picks are no brainers but I wonder whether we go into drafts knowing that because we're expecting a F/S KPP to come in, we just go best available. Ie in 2017 tossing up between Stephenson and Naughton, we decided to go with best available in Stephenson knowing that we have Will Kelly

20

Will Kelly

Age

23

Ht

194cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

1star

HB

1.0

1star

M

2.0

2star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

D

5.0

1star

K

4.0

2star

HB

1.0

2star

M

2.0

3star

T

0.0

1star

MG

108.0

2star

coming in the following year that will play a similar role.

I said it before we traded him. I disagree that he is more talented.
It's not just pure goals either that you should base their value on games around. Naughton's main issue has been injury throwing himself into packs like a madman which i love about him.

 

[Seedsfan]

That's more to do with not having 1st round picks available than a strategy.

We pass up on them time and time again

 

[jackcass]

You should be taking KPF prospects 3 years out from your main expected KPF retirement age given the length it takes for them to be "ready" and needing sheltering as opposed to what we did to Darcy initially.



At what point do we say he didn't utilize the picks as he as list manager decided to trade them out? Like the 2 pick 7s on treloar? or the double picks in 20s for Aish?
Or the 2 firsts on Beams?

or the 2nd on Murray?

2013 was a monumental stuff up.

Moore is a free hit and hardly a Hine choice. Only an idiot wouldn't of taken him.

2017 Hine should of went with Naughton it was clear we needed KPP then. And yes I was worried about Naughtons kicking (before you bring it up) but Hine was apparently tossing up between Jayden and Naughton at the time and should of went the NEED pick (imo is the better player too).

He had a lot more info on the players and footage plus live games to see them then us plebs and is paid to make the right calls here.

And nope I didn't read the lead up posts only those posts you made and he made even without it I disagree with your notion, you make me look silly? LOL yet to see you do that you usually try and fall flat on your face.

You get players into a club either via trade or via draft. It's not that hard is it. The issue wasn't that we didn't have KPF's on the list, the issue was they they weren't as good as we'd like.