List Mgmt. Future Father Son prospects

Kimbo

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Not sure what's so difficult about this - Koories and Noongar are people seperated by thousands of kilomteres.
Does Snake think Koori is a generic national name for Indigenous people and that anything beyond that is 'splitting hairs? and straying into something he thinks is 'PC'? As I understand it, in most of NSW, Vic (and SA?) they use Koori, in Qld Murri, but in WA there isn't an equivalent.

Hence Noongar for the SW Indigenous nation, which comprises 14 areas and 13 language (dialect) groups of which only 5 survive. Wongai (Wangai/Wangatha) for Goldfields, Yamitji for Murchison etc. There isn't a 'catch all' term in WA as a whole. Indigenous groups are therefore identified by their own geographical boundaries, not colonial state boundaries. In short, it's a geographical issue along with simply using the names that the Indigenous people themselves use. Is that somehow 'PC'? What's the definition of PC at play, because this isn't something constructed by non-Indigenous people.
 

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JeanLucGoddard

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Does Snake think Koori is a generic national name for Indigenous people and that anything beyond that is 'splitting hairs? and straying into something he thinks is 'PC'? As I understand it, in most of NSW, Vic (and SA?) they use Koori, in Qld Murri, but in WA there isn't an equivalent.

Hence Noongar for the SW Indigenous nation, which comprises 14 areas and 13 language (dialect) groups of which only 5 survive. Wongai (Wangai/Wangatha) for Goldfields, Yamitji for Murchison etc. There isn't a 'catch all' term in WA as a whole. Indigenous groups are therefore identified by their own geographical boundaries, not colonial state boundaries. In short, it's a geographical issue along with simply using the names that the Indigenous people themselves use. Is that somehow 'PC'? What's the definition of PC at play, because this isn't something constructed by non-Indigenous people.
Koori is generic enough in Victoria for indigenous people from Victoria (be they Wurendjeri, Yorta Yorta etc etc).

I think Snake_Baker just doesn't like admitting he may be wrong on something.
 

Snake_Baker

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Mate, you're really barking up the wrong tree on that one.

Noongar and Koories are two very different peoples. Anthropologists taught us that.
Best genetic evidence supports a single race of people that diverged from Papua new Guinea 37,000 years ago, and is represented by mitochondrial DNA all over the country in a mixed manner. Please point out the Koori and Noongar representations.

upload_2018-11-9_16-2-21.png



upload_2018-11-9_16-2-47.png
 

JeanLucGoddard

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Snake_Baker

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One people moved around and formed separate isolated pockets (at least 30).

Lol Snake.

It's OK to just admit you don't know much on this topic. One cannot be an expert on everything...
Shut up
 

JeanLucGoddard

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One people moved around and formed separate isolated pockets (at least 30).



Shut up
Yeah, and the Celts swept into Europe and formed seperate isolated pockets - in Ireland, Scotland, France etc elsewhere.

Noongars and Koories are very different people, they may share ancestors, but ultimately we all do.
 

Snake_Baker

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Yeah, and the Celts swept into Europe and formed seperate isolated pockets - in Ireland, Scotland, France etc elsewhere.

Noongars and Koories are very different people, they may share ancestors, but ultimately we all do.
You challenged me about the science, and I delivered the science.

I get that you are viewing this from a contemporary cultural angle, but my take is that terms like Koori, Noongar and Murri are modern sociopolitical constructs that have been heavily influenced by western interference. I don't buy heavily in to these concepts and I have yet to have an issue with a person of aboriginal lineage about them, even though I have heard them utilise the terms. In my experience they use the word "black fella" more often than these terms.
 

JeanLucGoddard

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You challenged me about the science, and I delivered the science.

I get that you are viewing this from a contemporary cultural angle, but my take is that terms like Koori, Noongar and Murri are modern sociopolitical constructs that have been heavily influenced by western interference. I don't buy heavily in to these concepts and I have yet to have an issue with a person of aboriginal lineage about them, even though I have heard them utilise the terms. In my experience they use the word "black fella" more often than these terms.
There's a very interesting argument to had about whether these terms are Western constructs. I'd take the position that they are terms used by indigenous people to describe in a way Western people can understand how they identified themselves before Western arrival.
 

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ferball

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There's a very interesting argument to had about whether these terms are Western constructs. I'd take the position that they are terms used by indigenous people to describe in a way Western people can understand how they identified themselves before Western arrival.

FWIW I know people who use the term Goorie and say Koorie only exists cos white people don't know how to talk properly (hence their problems with foreign languages, names and words.)

They are Bundjalung people (which is a sociopolitical construct - a blackfella one actually - made in response to the massacre of the actual Bundjalung people who modern "Bundjalung Nation" blackfellas are all related to. They were from Evans Head and according to my actual anthropologist blackfella mates (I had two of them while they were alive) were the only mob in the country with origin stories about arriving in "Australia" on the beach at Evans Head.)

They consider themselves Goorie/Koorie and their Northern border is the most Southern East Coast border of the Murri people. Its approximately where the Qld/NSW border is funnily enough.

Its interesting that there is one particular genetic marker there (at Evans Head, well close enough on that scale a map, on Tef's gene map up thread) that only shows up there - no where else on that map.

Just as an aside.

This discussion is interesting but it should probably happen in another thread (NOT the gender/bollocks one.)
 
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Kimbo

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My PTSD from the gender equality thread has been reignited, thanks for that gents.
This discussion is interesting but it should probably happen in another thread (NOT the gender/bollocks one.)
It would be great if non-football posts that become politicised or involve so-called political views could be shifted to or fed into a 'politics, PC and all that stuff' thread. If that's the non-football one, fine, but preferably another.
 

Snake_Baker

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It would be great if non-football posts that become politicised or involve so-called political views could be shifted to or fed into a 'politics, PC and all that stuff' thread. If that's the non-football one, fine, but preferably another.

Yeah, and all your air headed crap gets it's own special thread too!
 

JeanLucGoddard

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There should be a thread where people can ask me questions and I can dispense my trademark wisdom.

Confused by the latest developments in world affairs? I can explain.

Got a footy brain bender you need advice on? I'm there.

Problems in the bedroom? Finding yourself unable to please your partner sexually? Just drop me a line and provide appropriate pics and/or vids for a consultation that might change your life.

Jade - not just a service for North supporters. You and all the gang welcome.

I know many of you need serious help.
 
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DesertRoo

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There should be a thread where people can ask me questions and I can dispense my trademark wisdom.

Confused by the latest developments in world affairs? I can explain.

Got a footy brain bender you need advice on? I'm there.

Problems in the bedroom? Finding yourself unable to please your partner sexually? Just drop me a line and provide appropriate pics and/or vids for a consultation that might change your life.

Jade - not just a service for North supporters. You and all the gang welcome.

I know many of you need serious help.
World affairs?
I’ll take a prof mifsud, sailin the blue lagoon and not teh Brooke Shields movie, closer to St Mary's Tower.
;)
 
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Hearts to hearts

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Off topic mate.

Back on topic, what were the Tasmanian Indigenous folk known as?
And you a mod. I keep clicking to see news of father sons and I keep seeing more chest beating on this side topic. Should be moved, not encouraged. Toes plz.
 
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