Future of ANZAC day games??

[servo]

I would prefer to see the ANZAC day game be held as a replay of the Grand Final each year.

It is probably the biggest crowd attendace game outside the finals and I do not see why two teams should have a mortgage on that.

I know it was those two clubs who solicited the whole idea and they obtained the sanction of the RSL but why not share the wealth that could be generated?

I know also it is possible that it may mean that no Melbourne based clubs may be in that game some years but why should the other clubs be penalised again just because they are not based in Melbourne.

What are your thoughts?

 

[SS11]

i say dont fix it, if it aint broke

 

[play on]

The other clubs can go and find another public holiday like Queens birthday or Easter Monday and they can make it a traditional game every year.


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play on says the umpire
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[Joel]

Go make your own game, this was Collingwood and Essendon's idea...why should anyone else have it? Anzac Day is unbelievably successful...as SS11 said, "if it aint broke then why fix it?"

 

[bam bam]

What crap !!! Firstly Ess/Coll initiated the idea.And now that it has been successful parasites like you see the financial boon it has become and drool.Unfortunately a gate of 15-25000 is barely enough to pay the staff at the G so forget it as you couldnt cover the overheads with an interstate team playing. Note also that 79000 saw Rich/Coll last friday and it is more to do with the sides drawing ability than the day itself . HANDS OFF!!!!!!

 

[Frodo]

It was a really good game and very well supported and we should build on this. I would like to see Eagles v Freo, Port v Crows and Brissy v Sydney all on Anzac Day. There would be huge crowds and it would by a day to remember. It gives a chance for the Anzacs to parade before the games too and be remembered.

 

[Mr Ripper]

bam bam reckons:
What crap !!! Firstly Ess/Coll initiated the idea.

They were playing AFL matches on Anzac Day long before Essendon and Collingwood were drawn to play it in 1995. Don't think these two clubs should claim exclusive rights for the day on that basis.

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Olmy knows best

 

[sainter]

I have no problem with Essendon and Collingwood retaining the ANZAC Day game each year. They pioneered the game and deserve to have it played each year. I was at the game today and the day was magnificent. (Including a high standard and entertaining game) After it ended, I resolved that getting the saints to be more successful on the field and hence enjoy days like today to be one of my lifetime ambitions.

My problem is that certain sides are guaranteed two games against each other every single year.

I'm not talking about the South Australian and Western Australian teams. They travel enough and I think are entitled to play themselves twice each year in their own state.

It is the AFL's decision on 'blockbuster' games that gives me shits. (This issue gets on my nerves

) Obviously Essendon, Collingwood, Carlton and Richmond welcome the huge revenue earnt from the gate. But this is revenue that all clubs should be given an opportunity to earn. Using my side as an example, I'm not going to talk crap and say that we would earn as much from a match against these sides. However I think we all are entitled to as equitable draw as possible. 16 doesn't go into 22. We know that. But a fair draw is made even harder when the fixture is drawn around these blockbuster games. Comparing the amount of games played interstate by all of the Victorian teams makes interesting reading.

Aside from the financial aspect and arguably more important, these guaranteed games could easily advantage some sides. Looking over the past 5 years, it is obvious that it has been a huge advantage for Essendon to play Collingwood twice and Carlton to play Collingwood twice. It is not my intention to put down the pies here. Mick Malthouse said it himself last year that he would prefer an even draw. In 10 years time, the results may be totally reversed. All teams, regardless of size and popularity, deserve to have an equal opportunity to maximise income and revenue.

I realise that I'm arguing a lost cause. The AFL are the decision makers and they see $$$$$ everytime these clashes are played. My anger is not directed at the clubs, obviously the off-field departments of the clubs love the revenue. (Not as much sure about MM who would probably prefer a home match against a struggling side as much, as would most coaches) Just give all teams a chance!

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Fortius Quo Fidelius

 

[CJH]

Sainter,

I am more than happy for Richmond to have home games against Essendon, Collingwood and Carlton this year!

I too would like to see more teams share Anzac Day as this would only be more equitable!


(Insert deliberate contradiction smiley here!)

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I See Sunshine On a Cloudy Day The joys of knocking off Collingwood!
Long Range Support - Following the Tigers from interstate.

 

[Carro]

Originally posted by servo:

I know it was those two clubs who solicited the whole idea and they obtained the sanction of the RSL but why not share the wealth that could be generated?


What are your thoughts?

$125,000 from this game is donated by both clubs to be distributed to the other clubs.
Why not have ANZAC day matches port v Adelaide , Freo v WCE and Sydney v Brisbane in Adelaide, Perth and Brisbane?

 

[Dan26]

CJH,

I notice your CEO wanted an Anzac day game for the Tigers this year. This got me thinking.

Why not have Richmond vs Carlton on Anzac day eve every year? Anzac day eve has only ever been used once. It was 1995, and Richmond played North Melbourne on a Monday night (prior to the Ess vs Coll on the Tuesday). Richmond vs North got 62,000 on Anzac day eve, which is a bigger crowd than any subsequent Richmond-North match has been able to achieve. Yet, strangely, no Anzac day eve matches have been played since.

Why not have the 4 biggest clubs in Melbourne invloved in two matches on both Anzac day, and the night before Anzac day. Carlton is Richmond's biggest rival, so it would make sense.

Next year, Anzac day falls on a Thursday. Richmond could play Carlton on the Wednesday night. Obviously, both clubs would have to play separate Friday night matches the week beofore to accomodate the 5 day break. This is perfectly workable as it exactly what Essendon and Collingwood did this year.

I would love to see the 4 biggest clubs in the game play each other on Anzac day and Anzac day eve every year. Carl vs Rich the night before, and Ess vs Coll on Anzac day. I was thinking of writing to your CEO to see what he would think. What do you think? By playing on the night before Anzac day, you would avoid the costs associated with staging a match on a public holiday too !

 

[Same Old's]

Originally posted by Dan25:
CJH,

I notice your CEO wanted an Anzac day game for the Tigers this year. This got me thinking.

Why not have Richmond vs Carlton on Anzac day eve every year? Anzac day eve has only ever been used once. It was 1995, and Richmond played North Melbourne on a Monday night (prior to the Ess vs Coll on the Tuesday). Richmond vs North got 62,000 on Anzac day eve, which is a bigger crowd than any subsequent Richmond-North match has been able to achieve. Yet, strangely, no Anzac day eve matches have been played since.

Why not have the 4 biggest clubs in Melbourne invloved in two matches on both Anzac day, and the night before Anzac day. Carlton is Richmond's biggest rival, so it would make sense.

Next year, Anzac day falls on a Thursday. Richmond could play Carlton on the Wednesday night. Obviously, both clubs would have to play separate Friday night matches the week beofore to accomodate the 5 day break. This is perfectly workable as it exactly what Essendon and Collingwood did this year.

I would love to see the 4 biggest clubs in the game play each other on Anzac day and Anzac day eve every year. Carl vs Rich the night before, and Ess vs Coll on Anzac day. I was thinking of writing to your CEO to see what he would think. What do you think? By playing on the night before Anzac day, you would avoid the costs associated with staging a match on a public holiday too !

Dan,

Your idea has merit, however what happens when the return matches happen later in the year. The two "blockbusters" would happen in the same round. I would think the AFL would like to "space out" the blockbusters throughout the season?

So instead of putting Richmond vs Carlton why not have Richmond vs Kangroos again on Anzac Day eve? As you stated before they had a great crowd of 62 000 in 1995. They probably wouldn't get as much patrons there as a Richmond vs Carlton match, however, there's no reason to think they can't get 62 000 again if they promoted it properly.

This would be a nice earner for the clubs, especially for the Kangaroos.

What I'm trying to say here is a Richmond vs Carlton match would get a big crowd anyway so why not put another club in your proposal?

 

[Redd]

Anzac Day is a celebration for all Aussies.
I don't believe that Essendon & Collingwood should have sole rights to this game.

I know that they instigated this idea, and that is great, but Anzac day is special for all. Why can't I see my team play on this special day, or others?

As previously stated we could see Freo Vs Eagles, Port Vs Crows, Lions Vs Swans, all played throughout the country. This would be fantastic. But what about Melbourne teams?

Although they have made this day successful. they don't own it. It was North Melbourne who persisted with Friday night football when nobody else wanted it. Now it is the most popular viewing time for supporters, and now North have been relegated to other timeslots to make way for others that now want to play on Friday nights.

How can the Anzac Day Medal that Chris Tarrant won today, have any significant meaning in Football circles if nobody else can win it. How can the Anzac Day trophy have any significant meaning if no other club can hold it.

If other teams are involved in future games we may not see the same sized crowds, but realistically, the time has come to make changes. I don't know what the solution is, but I'm sure Essendon and Collingwood supporters won't like it.

 

[Dave]

Sainter, I understand where you're coming from but effectively what you are asking for is for the larger clubs to subsidise the smaller ones.

When the "big 4" play each other the crowds are roughly the same, with each sides supporters turning up for the away game (which is where the gate money comes from)

When one of the smaller sides play they get a great gate if they are the home side as the supporters of the larger team turn up and pay at the gate. When they play as the away team however not as many of their supporters turn up and pay at the gate, so very little is contributed in return. That's what irks me.

 

[Agent 86]

The problem I have with Anzac Day being played between the two Grand Finalists from the previous season is what happens if theres one non-victorian side make it? The atmosphere at the moment comes from two hugely supported teams, pretty much 50/50 in the crowd, take for example 1994's GF. Anzac Day West Coast v Geelong, you'd have 90% Geelong crowd, I personally couildn't see too many West Aussies making the trip over for a home and away game, in contrast to previous years GF's when Melbourne was inundated with interstate fans. (92, 94, 96, 97, 98). Keep it as is, please.
Also a question - what happens next time Anzac Day falls on a Saturday or Sunday? Is it only Essendon and Collingwood that play?

Cheers

 

[TigerTank]

My only problem with the ANZAC Day "ContRivalry" (or any equivalent so-called blockbuster date) is that it sets in stone a situation where two clubs play each other twice every year - unbalancing an already unbalanced draw.

The draw should provide a situation where every team plays every other team an equal number of times over a given rotation of years. Every "blockbuster" that ensures, say Collingwood and Carlton, play each other twice every year, makes an already uneven draw even more uneven.

If Collingwood plays Essendon twice every year, that means that the other clubs have to play interstate more often to compensate.

Essendon plays Collingwood, Carlton and Richmond twice this year - next year they should play them once!

A few years back I thought the other way - Richmond should get to play Collingwood and Carlton twice every year, but now it isn't important. As far as I'm concerned, it is up to Richmond supporters to keep our attendances high, not other clubs' supporters. If Richmond needs Carlton to boost average attendances, then the problem is ours, not the AFL's.

If the AFL wants to maintain return games between Collingwood, Carlton, Essendon and maybe Richmond, it should cut the crap and go all the way by setting up a Conference system. At the moment, the draw is trying to be only half pregnant.

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TT - The obligatory bad-tempered Richmond supporter

 

[WCE2000]

Dan:

your idea has merit, but another idea is - why not play both Richmond/Carlton and Essendon/Collingwood back to back on the same day.

This may work, although it would be a very long day and the supporters of the teams playing first may not stick around for the 2nd match.

I think they should at least try it and see if that works.

 

[CJH]

Dan,

I too agree that this idea does have merit and should be something that is worth exploiting! I would be more interested in Richmond claiming Good Friday as a public holiday to play a blockbuster on.

(I make that statement without having read any of JubJub's recent Good Friday thread - I have thoughts on that which I may share if they haven't already been expressed in that previous thread.)

TT,

I am more than happy for return blockbuster matches each year with the rest of the Big 4. I couldn't care less about the attendance figures but for one thing - the obscene amount of profit that can be made from them! Better believe that Collingwood have made a heap out of last Friday's match - 78,000 with a sizeable percentage of that coming from the Tigers.

Of this money, Richmond doesn't get to see a cracker - having a return match gives us a chance to cash in ourselves. This is why I am happy for a home match against Essendon, Carlton and Collingwood!

WCE2000,

Back to Back matches involving the Big Four would be impractical. If we were to play matches say on consecutive days we would expect to draw a combined 150,000 people. To have a game back to back would get a maximum of 98,000.

Also the logistics would be difficult as many members buy reserved seats for home games and this would obviously cause a clash with 2 teams 'home'.



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I See Sunshine On a Cloudy Day The joys of knocking off Collingwood!
Long Range Support - Following the Tigers from interstate.

 

[Blues2001]

Originally posted by Same Old's:


What I'm trying to say here is a Richmond vs Carlton match would get a big crowd anyway so why not put another club in your proposal?

I apologise if this has already been said/discussed but I haven't had time to read all the responses.

What is written above by Same Old's is one reason why I don't think that Anzac Day should be exclusive to Essendon v Collingwood. If the form of both teams is ok, Ess v Coll will draw a crowd similar to yesterday without needing to have Anzac Day - in other words, if yesterday's game was played on Friday night I reckon the crowd would have been about the same. Its not an old tradition, and I just think that it'd be more helpful to a game like Richmond v North Melbourne or whatever to push that game from, say 45,000 people to 65,0000 people. All the Victorian clubs need cash, and most need it more than Ess and Coll. I also think the idea of making it the day of the GF replay - that's a pretty good one. But if it was to stay as Ess v Coll, then I do like Dan's suggestion regarding Anzac Day eve. However, I think the blockbuster situation is more unfair than the Anzac Day situation.

 

[Stealth bomber]

I love the doubleheader idea actually.

We in the States have a similar tradition with Thanksgiving Day and NFL games. The Lions and Cowboys always play home games on it, though the opponent changes.

Richmond-Carlton is good. Or Hawthorn could be in it. There are all sorts of permutations you could have. Play a game in New Zealand maybe? After all, you'd only have AAC day without them

 

[CJH]

Originally posted by Stealth bomber:

I love the doubleheader idea actually.

We in the States have a similar tradition with Thanksgiving Day and NFL games. The Lions and Cowboys always play home games on it, though the opponent changes.

Richmond-Carlton is good. Or Hawthorn could be in it. There are all sorts of permutations you could have. Play a game in New Zealand maybe? After all, you'd only have AAC day without them

Are these played at the same venue?

I have no issue with Richmond/Carlton and Essendon/Collingwood playing a double header on the same day - just not at the same venue!



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I See Sunshine On a Cloudy Day The joys of knocking off Collingwood!
Long Range Support - Following the Tigers from interstate.

 

[Dan26]

OK, lets clear up a couple of points here:

Firstly, you can't have a double header on the same ground on the same day. How would you clear the crowd from the first match? Especially if both matches were 90,000 plus demand games.

Now, to CJH.

CJH, even though I am all for footy on Good friday, I have my doubts about the crowd drawing capabilities of this day. Essendon has played 2 Good Friday eve matches in the last three years. We played North in 1999 and got 48,000, and we played Carlton this year and got 63,000. Bot crowds were well down on what we normally get when we play these two teams. I think people tend to go away on Holiday on Good Friday. Richmond wold be better going for Anzac eve. You did this in 1995, but you stopped doing it. Why???

Compare, our Good Friday eve crowds, with your Anzac eve match against North in 1995. 62,000...... well above what you normally get against the Roos. Having Richmond-Carlton annually on Anzac eve would be a guaranteed 80,000 every year. People have already gone on holidays for easter two weeks previous. They are not going to go on hoiday again. The crowd drawing potential is enourmous.

Same Olds,

What differnce does it make if there are two blockbusters in the same round? Who cares? If they were on the same day, I can see your point, but they are on diferent days. How is that any different to having them on different days spaced over different rounds like it is now? The only difference if they are played in the same round, is that there will be one or two days between each of the blockbusters. But so what? As long as they are not on the same day (which is impossible anyway because we only have one 100,000 seat stadium) I don't see what the problem is.

Imagine Carl vs Rich on Wednesday night next year, followed by Ess vs Coll on Anzac day on Thursday. No one has gone on holidays, we have the 4 biggest clubs involved over 2 special days. It's a winner, I reckon.

 

[sainter]

Originally posted by Dave:
Sainter, I understand where you're coming from but effectively what you are asking for is for the larger clubs to subsidise the smaller ones.

When the "big 4" play each other the crowds are roughly the same, with each sides supporters turning up for the away game (which is where the gate money comes from)

When one of the smaller sides play they get a great gate if they are the home side as the supporters of the larger team turn up and pay at the gate. When they play as the away team however not as many of their supporters turn up and pay at the gate, so very little is contributed in return. That's what irks me.

I know what you mean Dave. I'm not neccessarily a fan of the AFL's decision to move from splitting the gate receipts to giving it all to the home team either.

I think what I'm trying to get at was covered by TigerTank above. Every single year, the fixture is worked around blockbuster games. These matches are guaranteed each year and the rest of the draw if fitted in where possible. For example this may mean more interstate games for other Victorian clubs. Or more home games against non Victorian clubs.

These blockbuster games are a financial reward and possibly an on-field bonus every year for a few of the sides (depending on the ladder positions).

Yes, it may irk you when the home side takes all the gate receipts when their may be more Essendon supporters in the venue. It also irks me seeing clubs like Essendon make more money out of one guaranteed fixture each year than we can make out of home games against Adelaide, Fremantle, West Coast and a few other Victorian teams combined.

As much as some people like to think (not talking about you here Dave), this competition could not function anywhere near as well without all of the current teams. Pulling out a couple of Victorian teams and relocating them interstate is not the answer. I am quite fearful about the future of Victorian clubs including my own. The increase in the salary cap and the ability of clubs to earn revenue on an even footing is a gap that needs to be narrowed.

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Fortius Quo Fidelius

 

[Joel]

I think some supporters are failing to realise that will not and could not draw a crowd like Collingwood and Essendon can. There are only two other teams who can - Richmond and Carlton.

Secondly what some of you also fail to realise is that this is a money spinner for the AFL itself - as if they are going to change it when they are already running in the red. Have your own little games but Collingwood V Essendon on ANZAC at the MCG should and will NEVER be changed, no matter how much you want it to.

 

[Dave]

Sainter,
yeah, I agree that relocating isn't the answer. I'd like to see all the Melbourne clubs stay afloat as it is the suburban rivalries (at least for me) that make footy what it is. Going to work on Monday (Thursday?) and giving/copping sh*t depending on whether you win or lose isn't quite the same if no-one in the office barracks for the other team (ie interstate!!). And that doesn't mean I don't value the contribution they've made. I just think that the AFL have to realise that footy is the heart & soul of many people and if you teak their team away (like Fitzroy) they'll give the game away, and most probably their kids will be lost as well. And even though they may think otherwise they cannot afford this.

Anyway, off my soap box. The only real solution is to piss the ansett cup off & play a 30 round season, or at least a lot closer to 30 than 22, which would remove/reduce the inequities in the draw.