Prediction Future of Josh has gone to the Dogs.

[Dalions]

I'd be really distressed to if I knew I would be paid a minimum of 500k for playing footy next year give me a break . Get in the real world with a family who are on 1 income rather then a 19 year old who is going to be earning more then half a million bucks per year for the next 10 years.

If you suffer from some form of Mental illness, money is not a magical cure.
Perfect example in the AFL, Buddy!
In the Afl money can actually make things worse, with the pressure that it brings with it.
That would be my concern for Josh.

 

[Ironmonger]

I'm not sure there's really any reason to think there's a mental health issue here. A young man being nervous in a televised interview about his career is perfectly normal behaviour.

 

[Eons]

If money was the panacea to all of life's woes why do famous and rich people commit suicide? Ridiculous statement TimF.

 

[ULittleBeauty]

I really am keen for Josh to stay with us but not for over the odds dollars. In view of the obvious pressure that he is under re the contract speculation I am prepared to ignore this years form when judging his worth to us long term and go on last years. He still projects to be a high quality KPF in the future ie. 3-5 years IMO.

Notwithstanding his form this year, I'd be prepared to pay Josh a reasonable amount overs for his higher expected ceiling and invest for the future if we are able to clear up some salary cap room by getting rid of our list cloggers such as Bell, Basti, Walker, Bewick who aren't going to get us anywhere.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Hollow Knight]

I'm not sure there's really any reason to think there's a mental health issue here. A young man being nervous in a televised interview about his career is perfectly normal behaviour.

I'll be surprised if mental health isn't mentioned as a factor at some stage. It would explain a lot. But yeah, probably not appropriate to go into further. He's being scrutinised enough.

 

[M Malice]

If money was the panacea to all of life's woes why do famous and rich people commit suicide? Ridiculous statement TimF.

yep, $$$$ help but it has been amply demonstrated over the years it does not automatically lead to happiness in fact I have personally seen it make bad situations worse.

 

[Eons]

yep, $$$$ help but it has been amply demonstrated over the years it does not automatically lead to happiness in fact I have personally seen it make bad situations worse.

Mo money Mo problems.

 

[jackess]

Notwithstanding his form this year, I'd be prepared to pay Josh a reasonable amount overs for his higher expected ceiling and invest for the future if we are able to clear up some salary cap room by getting rid of our list cloggers such as Bell, Basti, Walker, Bewick who aren't going to get us anywhere.


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If we clear out those guys and Schache leaves anyway we'd probably be struggling to pay half of the new salary cap. We can offer him way overs but clearly they're setting a standard.

 

[lions27]

At the end of the day Schache only has himself and his manager to blame. Getting shopped around a little over halfway through your contract is never going to end well.
If Schache wasn't happy with his manager then he could have moved him on or pulled him into line- it appears neither has happened.
Either get on the bus or handle your affairs better.
Im not condoning personal attacks on Schache.

 

[notliondown]

Regardless of what people think about this 19 year old kid as a footballer is there any possible chance of giving him the benefit of the doubt as a human being?

He's been thrust into a situation he would have never envisioned when he dreamed of playing footy as a kid. Media and managers create such a hyped up overblown situation few would imagine dealing with this sort of scrutiny.

Then having his personality, mental state and iq debated by a bunch of arm chair experts, as well as his footy prowess, is a step too far... especially some of the stuff in this thread being run up the mast for a second time.

And as for the assumption the players don't read big footy... don't kid yourselves. Perhaps the old adage of don't type it if you wouldn't say it need apply...

 

[Viceregal]

At the end of the day Schache only has himself and his manager to blame. Getting shopped around a little over halfway through your contract is never going to end well.

If you assume a) that the public expectation is that you either sign at the end of the year or you are obviously considering leaving / on the way out
and b) that you have the slightest interest in what your market value is (even if only to help with your negotiations with your current club)
then 'getting shopped around' would seem to be nothing more than due diligence and nothing overtly to do with loyalty.

This is naturally one of the positives used to suggest 3 or 4 year contracts for 1st round draft picks (the pressure to re-sign is not really on the ones taken later unless they are the type who would be first round in a 'reviewing the draft of XXXX' thread) because he would be having this discussion (assuming a four year term) as a 21 year old with three and a bit years of professional football and life-away-from-home experience behind him ...

 

[Skoob]

I really don't get this "Evil manager" narrative, particularly the "shopping around" crap.
I wouldn't be surprised if 17 other clubs have called his manager this year. I'd be pissed if our club hasn't rang a good number of managers of players coming out of contract. From there, I would expect those managers to listen and get a gauge of what's on offer at other clubs. If one of those clubs is very, very interested, then I would expect a meeting. How the * do you guys think the business of player representation works?
So Schache hasn't told his manager that he is deadset on staying in Brisbane, big deal. That's disappointing, but hardly a crime. At the least I would expect him to dip a toe in the water to get an idea on how he's valued elsewhere.
When I was young and in my first proper job, I was happy where I was, (relatively). I had no idea what others were being paid, but over time I started to hear more about guys at other places being paid much better than I was. If you don't explore, you never know. Chuck on top of that some homesickness and maybe some immaturity, and it's a recipe to seriously consider your next contract. Other club champions explored their options. Black wanted out in his first stint. Brown nearly took an offer from Collingwood. Checking your options is a pretty normal process, I would think, and his manager's role is to speak to people and present options to their clients.
If you think the manager's job is to sit in his office waiting for instructions from players, then you are living in a naive dream world. He has probably made some poor choices of what he has said to a few people/journos, but that doesn't make him some scumbag pimp.

 

[jackess]

I really don't get this "Evil manager" narrative, particularly the "shopping around" crap.
I wouldn't be surprised if 17 other clubs have called his manager this year. I'd be pissed if our club hasn't rang a good number of managers of players coming out of contract. From there, I would expect those managers to listen and get a gauge of what's on offer at other clubs. If one of those clubs is very, very interested, then I would expect a meeting. How the **** do you guys think the business of player representation works?
So Schache hasn't told his manager that he is deadset on staying in Brisbane, big deal. That's disappointing, but hardly a crime. At the least I would expect him to dip a toe in the water to get an idea on how he's valued elsewhere.
When I was young and in my first proper job, I was happy where I was, (relatively). I had no idea what others were being paid, but over time I started to hear more about guys at other places being paid much better than I was. If you don't explore, you never know. Chuck on top of that some homesickness and maybe some immaturity, and it's a recipe to seriously consider your next contract. Other club champions explored their options. Black wanted out in his first stint. Brown nearly took an offer from Collingwood. Checking your options is a pretty normal process, I would think, and his manager's role is to speak to people and present options to their clients.
If you think the manager's job is to sit in his office waiting for instructions from players, then you are living in a naive dream world. He has probably made some poor choices of what he has said to a few people/journos, but that doesn't make him some scumbag pimp.

There are examples like Green and Jed knocking back a deal from the club and then being delisted. Delaying when you re-sign can backfire. If you get a big offer from a club you're happy playing at you shouldn't take too long considering it. Who knows maybe Schache will get a bad injury which will effect his value.

 

[bungalow_bill]

I really don't get this "Evil manager" narrative, particularly the "shopping around" crap.
I wouldn't be surprised if 17 other clubs have called his manager this year. I'd be pissed if our club hasn't rang a good number of managers of players coming out of contract. From there, I would expect those managers to listen and get a gauge of what's on offer at other clubs. If one of those clubs is very, very interested, then I would expect a meeting. How the **** do you guys think the business of player representation works?
So Schache hasn't told his manager that he is deadset on staying in Brisbane, big deal. That's disappointing, but hardly a crime. At the least I would expect him to dip a toe in the water to get an idea on how he's valued elsewhere.
When I was young and in my first proper job, I was happy where I was, (relatively). I had no idea what others were being paid, but over time I started to hear more about guys at other places being paid much better than I was. If you don't explore, you never know. Chuck on top of that some homesickness and maybe some immaturity, and it's a recipe to seriously consider your next contract. Other club champions explored their options. Black wanted out in his first stint. Brown nearly took an offer from Collingwood. Checking your options is a pretty normal process, I would think, and his manager's role is to speak to people and present options to their clients.
If you think the manager's job is to sit in his office waiting for instructions from players, then you are living in a naive dream world. He has probably made some poor choices of what he has said to a few people/journos, but that doesn't make him some scumbag pimp.

Never knew that about Black. Was he homesick for WA in the early days? No Black no 3 peat

Also Bradshaw too allegedly was a tough one to re-sign

 

[briztoon]

There are examples like Green and Jed knocking back a deal from the club and then being delisted. Delaying when you re-sign can backfire. If you get a big offer from a club you're happy playing at you shouldn't take too long considering it. Who knows maybe Schache will get a bad injury which will effect his value.

Each players situation is different, and other forces can be at work as to why a player might be delisted.

I do not believe the examples of Green or Jed are remotely similar to the situation both the Lions and Schache find themselves in. Nor is being delisted the end of a career as examples like Green and Barrett show.

 

[LongLion]

Don't think the issue is with a managers role, is more about how he allows & plans for the effect it has on his player/s. In Shaches case it sounds like the way he is handling it is not doing Josh any favours. Again the issue is that the system is stuffed if this process can have such a negative effect on a 2nd year players form & headspace.

 

[jackess]

Each players situation is different, and other forces can be at work as to why a player might be delisted.

I do not believe the examples of Green or Jed are remotely similar to the situation both the Lions and Schache find themselves in. Nor is being delisted the end of a career as examples like Green and Barrett show.

We offered Schache a 5 year contract before he even played a game. You don't think there was anything that could have happened between then and now that could have resulted in Schache receiving a contract of a shorter length or less money?

Of course he wasn't going to end up being delisted but not accepting a contract offer doesn't necessarily mean the next offer will be better as we saw with Jed and Green.

 

[lionshine]

What? I didn't mean that as some sort of personal attack. Just goes to show the person you are by interpreting it that way though doesn't it? Mate he's probably depressed or something which explains a lot. Cool your jets we have a young 19 year old with a lot of pressure on him at the moment. Let's just wait it out it won't be an easy decision.

I think everyone needs to chill out a tad. We see what, 0.1% of Schache's day to day life? The odd image of him at training or on Instagram, 3 hours each weekend for roughly 20 weeks of the year on the footy field and maybe 5-10 interviews per year. For all we know he could be the happiest guy alive at the moment living his dream of playing AFL footy. We can kid ourselves into thinking we know what he is like day to day but the simple fact is we don't and why should we? Who honestly cares. Beyond the footy field we really shouldn't take interest/invest emotionally in these guys lives.

As for those commenting on his mental state after that interview, yeah sure he looked tired and timid and all the rest of it but perhaps he'd just woken up from a nap and is nervous due to the fact that a camera has been shoved in his face? The reality is he could be really happy, enjoying some time back at home whilst he makes a big decision on his future. I do find it really bizarre that people on here are starting to draw a picture of him being depressed, anxious and run down and struggling to make a decision based off a few snippets of info/footage.

Edit: Just on the "Who honestly cares. Beyond the footy field we really shouldn't take interest/invest emotionally in these guys lives." part of my post, that wasn't necessarily directed at you SizeMatters I think we are all guilty of it, myself included. It can be hard not to when you are a diehard footy fan, but I think we should all aim to find a happy medium when it comes to separating ourselves emotionally from the going ons regarding the players off the field.

 

[royboys4eva]

I strongly disagree. Player managers have taken it upon themselves to get into young players heads and glorify what they can get and why they should move clubs or put it in the media they could be tempted away. Does anyone think thats great for the game? Certainly doesn't bode well for our club. Once Schache is dealt with they will move onto McCluggage. We had the disgusting saga with Cam McCarthy wanting out of GWS a year after signing a new contract. His manager got very personal with the Giants when it was clear he wouldn't get his way. Player managers should be respecting contracts not looking to break them at first opportunity.

Can anyone honestly believe that Schache's manager hasn't been in his ear from start of the year about moving and making more money and getting back to Victoria. Do you really think young naive Josh who was close to re signing as we we're led to believe suddenly rang his manager and said let's draw this out and see how much extra we can make and see who is interested.

 

[briztoon]

I have been really reluctant to post in this thread as some of the conversation has become rather poisonous.

So many people here already crucifying Schache based on pure speculation, innuendo and rumour. Some of it really is crossing a line.

How many of these "fans" are also crucifying Tom Bell and other Lions players in post game threads, pregame threads etc, calling for Bell and other current Lions player to be de-listed. You know what you are doing right? You're asking your club to throw a player out, potentially end his career, end that players potential to earn an income for himself or his family.

What makes Schache different, that people are crucifying him for possibly leaving, but many of you are willingly throwing other players such as Bell, Frost etc out of the club.

Why do fans expect players to show loyalty to the club, when you're not showing loyalty to the players?

What's that you say, Bell and some of these other players aren't good enough to play AFL. Maybe some players don't believe Brisbane is good enough for them.

Elite sport is a business these days. There is little loyalty in the game. If a player is not good enough, there's the door, we don't care if you're a young player who failed to make the grade, a journeyman who's usefulness has been surpassed, or a faded club champion who no longer can perform at an elite level. Fans are so quick to dismiss players they no longer feel have a value to the team.

Every single player should be looking out for themselves, what is best for them and their family.


Until Schache makes a decision and speaks about it publicly no one should crucifying the kid or engaging in character assassination.

I've got no problem with Brisbane fans crucifying Buckley, but let's wait until after the fact before we nail Schache to a cross. You never know, Schache could end up staying and being the next Lions "saviour".

 

[lions27]

I really don't get this "Evil manager" narrative, particularly the "shopping around" crap.
I wouldn't be surprised if 17 other clubs have called his manager this year. I'd be pissed if our club hasn't rang a good number of managers of players coming out of contract. From there, I would expect those managers to listen and get a gauge of what's on offer at other clubs. If one of those clubs is very, very interested, then I would expect a meeting. How the **** do you guys think the business of player representation works?
So Schache hasn't told his manager that he is deadset on staying in Brisbane, big deal. That's disappointing, but hardly a crime. At the least I would expect him to dip a toe in the water to get an idea on how he's valued elsewhere.
When I was young and in my first proper job, I was happy where I was, (relatively). I had no idea what others were being paid, but over time I started to hear more about guys at other places being paid much better than I was. If you don't explore, you never know. Chuck on top of that some homesickness and maybe some immaturity, and it's a recipe to seriously consider your next contract. Other club champions explored their options. Black wanted out in his first stint. Brown nearly took an offer from Collingwood. Checking your options is a pretty normal process, I would think, and his manager's role is to speak to people and present options to their clients.
If you think the manager's job is to sit in his office waiting for instructions from players, then you are living in a naive dream world. He has probably made some poor choices of what he has said to a few people/journos, but that doesn't make him some scumbag pimp.

Surely it's the Managers job to act in the best interests of his player ie- Discreetly? Plenty of players come and go but only a few are handled poorly.

 

[Zhesty]

Read all the posts about the interview before watching it and thought it must have looked bad. Now watched it and it looked like Schache had just rolled out of bed and was still half asleep.

I don't know how people are so deeply examining that interview.

I'm not saying he'll stay, I just think people need to ease up a little.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Wish Schache had signed up with Berry's manager - seems like a no nonsense kind of manager.

 

[Dalions]

I have been really reluctant to post in this thread as some of the conversation has become rather poisonous.

So many people here already crucifying Schache based on pure speculation, innuendo and rumour. Some of it really is crossing a line.

How many of these "fans" are also crucifying Tom Bell and other Lions players in post game threads, pregame threads etc, calling for Bell and other current Lions player to be de-listed. You know what you are doing right? You're asking your club to throw a player out, potentially end his career, end that players potential to earn an income for himself or his family.

What makes Schache different, that people are crucifying him for possibly leaving, but many of you are willingly throwing other players such as Bell, Frost etc out of the club.

Why do fans expect players to show loyalty to the club, when you're not showing loyalty to the players?

What's that you say, Bell and some of these other players aren't good enough to play AFL. Maybe some players don't believe Brisbane is good enough for them.

Elite sport is a business these days. There is little loyalty in the game. If a player is not good enough, there's the door, we don't care if you're a young player who failed to make the grade, a journeyman who's usefulness has been surpassed, or a faded club champion who no longer can perform at an elite level. Fans are so quick to dismiss players they no longer feel have a value to the team.

Every single player should be looking out for themselves, what is best for them and their family.


Until Schache makes a decision and speaks about it publicly no one should crucifying the kid or engaging in character assassination.

I've got no problem with Brisbane fans crucifying Buckley, but let's wait until after the fact before we nail Schache to a cross. You never know, Schache could end up staying and being the next Lions "saviour".

I feel quite sure that there has been an occasion or 2 that you have bagged Tom Bell or Ryan Bastinac before. I cant see how we can even put them in the same conversation as Schache.
Hell, even the coach has had something to say about them.
We as a club can not accept mediocrity anymore.
No one is closed off to criticism.
I am in the camp of hoping Schache will stay.
And although we may not like hearing the bad things, people still have a freedom of speech in this country.

 

[Hollow Knight]

And although we may not like hearing the bad things, people still have a freedom of speech in this country.

We actually don't have legally protected free speech in Australia.

I think briztoon's point was reasonable in that he was basically addressing the idea of obligation between players and clubs and vice versa. We can't really suggest Schache owes anything top the club beyond serving his existing contract while we simultaneously eagerly count the days until we can cull players who are no longer useful to us.

My view hasn't changed... the AFL is a business and fans have to wrap their head around it, as unpleasant as it is. And quite simply, the business model is out of whack. I'm still hating the game not the player.