Future of Super Rugby

Seedsfan

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 10, 2013
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When South Africa ****s off we'll have 4 x Aus teams, 5 x NZ, the Sunwolves and possibly the Jaguares.

Assuming Twiggy's plan gets off the ground the IPRC will have the Force and 5 others. That's a total of 16/17 teams spread out over half the world which is really what we have now that isn't working.

What I really want to see is grass roots investment in WA rugby. **** the East, the ARU made that bed. Why would anyone in WA want to invest in the private school-Shute Shield-Waratahs-Wallabies model that the ARU think is the way forward while the Force are playing Hong Kong out of season?

The future is Scotland's Asia Pacific Rugby Championship.

5 x Aust
5 x NZ
1 x Japan
1 x Fiji, Tonga, Samoa

Argentina too far away, they can play with the Northerners.
Because some people care about the game in it's entirety. NSW and Queensland will always be the heartland. I do agree how ever that 5 Aus sides 5 NZ sides and then 4-5 from the pacific is the best way forward
 

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TheBrownDog
May 5, 2006
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Because some people care about the game in it's entirety. NSW and Queensland will always be the heartland. I do agree how ever that 5 Aus sides 5 NZ sides and then 4-5 from the pacific is the best way forward
Who are these some people? It ain't the people who are in charge of running the game.

The Roos and Hawks have Tasmania sponsorship deals to play games there. If the AFL said 'righto, no more games in Tassie' do you really think the Tassie govt and Tassie businesses would continue their sponsorships or decide 'you know what, I think we should sponsor national grass roots footy'?

That's basically the position Twiggy and co are in now. The ARU has given WA a big FU. No one in WA has the health of 'rugby in the heartland' as their #1 priority at this point.
 

Seedsfan

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Who are these some people? It ain't the people who are in charge of running the game.

The Roos and Hawks have Tasmania sponsorship deals to play games there. If the AFL said 'righto, no more games in Tassie' do you really think the Tassie govt and Tassie businesses would continue their sponsorships or decide 'you know what, I think we should sponsor national grass roots footy'?

That's basically the position Twiggy and co are in now. The ARU has given WA a big FU. No one in WA has the health of 'rugby in the heartland' as their #1 priority at this point.
Because Twiggy obviously cares about the Wallabies first and foremost. He cares about the game in Australia in its entirety not just about rugby in WA.

RugbyWA sold you out as much as the ARU they voted to return to 4 sides hoping the Rebels would get cut.

Also Twiggy knows there is no point seeing rugby thrive in WA if it collapses in the heart land especially if he is to achieve his goal of seeing the Wallabies win another World Cup.
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
May 5, 2006
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http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/aru-chief-bill-pulver-rob-clarke-under-scrutiny-in-senate-inquiry/news-story/344c745894d226b81f59efbc9c36d637

In an eventful hearing, Pulver admitted the Rebels were responsible for over half of the $28 million in unbudgeted funds poured into Super Rugby teams by the ARU; the drain that prompted the ARU to cut a team.

...

Pulver conceded the ARU had waved off $13 million in outstanding loans when striking a deal with Cox to take ownership in 2015, and committed to an unspecified additional funding package to help support the private owner.
:thumbsu::rolleyes:
 

Hap Hapablap

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The_Reaper

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Turns out the ARU were already discussing the prospect of culling teams when they conned the Force into giving up their license.
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
May 5, 2006
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http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/rugby/aru-chairman-cameron-clyne-defends-western-force-axing-amid-concerns-about-rebels-deal/news-story/dfa56873d5fcbcde32d925a184ca6fcc

Reynolds last night raised explosive allegations Cox’s Imperium Sports Group — which purchased the Rebels licence for $1 — used millions of dollars of ARU grants to pay themselves lavish management fees instead of putting that money into the Rebels.

“We are of the understanding that that contract made no reference to all of those additional $5.5 to $6 million worth of extra grants, over and above every other Super Rugby team, that there was no conditions on it,” Reynolds said.

“So if Mr Cox had wanted to take all of that money, and we understand a lot of that money went out to his various companies, you’ve got no concern that there wasn’t even a condition in the contract that that money had to be tied for rugby purposes?

“If you had a look at their books, they’ve paid themselves in consultancy fees more than they were paying the players and staff combined, so that didn’t raise alarm bells?”

Clyne responded: “I don’t know the ins and outs of what was occurring, we did due diligence on the assessment, we looked at their financials.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/rugby-union/aru-already-in-talks-to-axe-team-when-force-licence-taken-over/news-story/ebc161f2e6f271bb851af54d906560eb

The Australian Rugby Union had discussed cutting the number of Australian Super Rugby teams from five teams to four in August last year, eight days before entering into the Alliance agreement with the Western Force at which the Perth club voluntarily handed over their licence, a Senate Inquiry was told last night.

It was this decision to hand over their licence to the ARU, in what it thought was part of a national plan to centralise the game and its administration, that ultimately enabled the ARU to axe the Force in September this year.

The question was asked of ARU chairman Cameron Clyne, giving evidence to the Senate Inquiry on the Future of Australian Rugby, why the ARU had not informed the Force that it was discussing axing a side — even if a formal decision to remove one of the teams was not made until April this year — at the time it was negotiating to buy their licence.

Initially Clyne took exception to Senator Linda Reynolds’ question, querying how she had come into possession of confidential board documents.

“That’s interesting,” Clyne said.

“I’d be very disappointed if you’ve been given some information because all current and former directors have given an undertaking that they are adhering to the directors’ duty, so if you have received a board document — which I’d be surprised if you had given those undertaking — that you (Senator Reynolds) and I need to refer something to ASIC (the Australian Securities and Investments Commission) because that’s very concerning.
ARU covering themselves in more glory.
 

The_Reaper

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I'm trying to figure out the ARU's plan in pursuing legal costs from the WARU.

The WARU goes into administration to pay that off and then what happens in the state with the third highest playing numbers?
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
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https://thewest.com.au/sport/rugby-union/wa-rugby-could-be-hit-with-1m-aru-legal-bill-ng-b88633528z

Mr Pulver said the ARU felt strongly about recovering costs for several reasons including:
  • That the ARU definitively won both the arbitration and the appeal proceedings.
  • RugbyWA pursued both proceedings aggressively in correspondence through its lawyers and the media and a large proportion of the costs were incurred preparing for claims in the arbitration which were eventually abandoned by RugbyWA.
  • The ARU’s costs were driven up by letters sometimes sent three or four times a day by RugbyWA lawyers.
  • RugbyWA unreasonably rejected reasonable offers of compromise to narrow the issues in dispute and contribute towards the development of grassroots rugby in WA if the appeal was abandoned.
  • The legal processes prolonged the uncertainty suffered by players and staff of both teams (Force and Melbourne Rebels) and subjected the ARU to intense public and media criticism.
  • RugbyWA (and its prominent supporters) was highly critical of ARU, management and board and questioned the integrity of ARU’s management processes, values and honesty.
  • RugbyWA publicly sought to put a “retrospective lens” on the circumstances leading up to the entry into the Alliance Agreement in 2016, including allegations of misleading and deceptive conduct by ARU which contributed to further reputational damage suffered by ARU.
I'm not sure hurt feelings are legal grounds to recoup costs, but then I'm not a lawyer.

Firstly, the ARU are skint. If there is an avenue to get $1m flowing into the coffers, they are on board.

Secondly, they are a bunch of campaigners. They are offended by the suggestion that they were out to get the Force before the Alliance Agreement was signed and the deck was stacked from the get go, they maintain they are committed to a national footprint, yet their next move is to attempt to bankrupt a state governing body. Yep, that would be a wonderful outcome for rugby in WA and Australia.

If the ARU can force RugbyWA into administration, then they can get their own non-dissenting voices in to run the show.
 

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Freomaniac

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is there a way i can get banned off this board. :p

dont want to ever be part of this sport ever again as long as the ARU are running it. **** them.
As I said, The ARU are very poorly run. They Make the Football Federation Australia (FFA) look like a decent organisation and that says a lot considering what the FFA are going through at the moment
 

robbieando

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https://thewest.com.au/sport/rugby-union/wa-rugby-could-be-hit-with-1m-aru-legal-bill-ng-b88633528z

I'm not sure hurt feelings are legal grounds to recoup costs, but then I'm not a lawyer.
Losing in arbitration and then in court is enough grounds for the ARU to recoup costs, if RugbyWA had won they would of passed their costs onto the ARU. They knew the risks going in when starting their action (and if they didn't they are stupid beyond belief) and now they can't act surprised that the ARU is asking them to cover costs for an action they started as is their right.
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
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Losing in arbitration and then in court is enough grounds for the ARU to recoup costs, if RugbyWA had won they would of passed their costs onto the ARU. They knew the risks going in when starting their action (and if they didn't they are stupid beyond belief) and now they can't act surprised that the ARU is asking them to cover costs for an action they started as is their right.
I thought the ARU was an endless pit of unconditional money. My bad.
 

chibimatty

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I thought the ARU was an endless pit of unconditional money. My bad.
Well, they've spent a lot on their re-brand, and they knocked back $50 million; so we can be forgiven for believing such a thing.

Anyway, next year I'll be heading to as many Wanneroo Roo-Dogs home games as I can. The upshot of this débâcle is that more West Aussies are going to club rugby, so it's about time I put more money into my local club's bar and sausage sizzle.
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
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Well, they've spent a lot on their re-brand, and they knocked back $50 million; so we can be forgiven for believing such a thing.

Anyway, next year I'll be heading to as many Wanneroo Roo-Dogs home games as I can. The upshot of this débâcle is that more West Aussies are going to club rugby, so it's about time I put more money into my local club's bar and sausage sizzle.
Well they are committed to a national footprint, they said so. They wouldn't want to harm the third biggest market in the country, would they? I figured since they were happy to ignore millions of dollars in Melbourne Rebels debt they wouldn't haggle over a measly million from RugbyWA... :rolleyes:
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
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Shemozzle. Best outcome would be to turn it off and turn it back on again.

The Blues have been the most poorly performed team of the 5 NZ franchises for the last few years. The Highlanders were pretty ordinary for the first part of their existence. But both have produced All Blacks, had strong seasons at SR level etc. Can you imagine the NZRU just giving up on one of their regions, let alone doing so the underhanded way the ARU have gone about it?
 

Seedsfan

Norm Smith Medallist
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Wonderful, spend 10 years building a Super Rugby team then all the players end up playing for Melbourne.

Good thing they are so financially secure I guess...
You had 10 years to get it right and you didn't. The ARU should of maintained 5 teams but the Force did not in there 11 years make themselves bullet proof. Also Faulkner is a Melbourne boy returning home Coleman is also another from the Rebels zone
 

Scotland

TheBrownDog
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You had 10 years to get it right and you didn't. The ARU should of maintained 5 teams but the Force did not in there 11 years make themselves bullet proof. Also Faulkner is a Melbourne boy returning home Coleman is also another from the Rebels zone
Great logic. Kill the team who didn't get it right after 11 years to keep the team that didn't get it right after 6. Do you work for the ARU?
 

The_Reaper

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You had 10 years to get it right and you didn't. The ARU should of maintained 5 teams but the Force did not in there 11 years make themselves bullet proof. Also Faulkner is a Melbourne boy returning home Coleman is also another from the Rebels zone
Well if the Force had the same amount of ARU money pi**ed down the drain as Melbourne things would be different?
 

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