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Future of Super Rugby

Discussion in 'Rugby Union' started by Seedsfan, Feb 28, 2017.

Put it out there
  1. Landgraft

    Landgraft All Australian

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    I've been interested reading through this thread, as well as very vaguely following this story over the last few months.

    About ten years ago I spent a few seasons as a Brumbies member attending every home game and all the rest of it. Over the years I just didn't find Rugby that engaging, now haven't watched a live game in years and doubt I ever will again.

    At the same time Super Rugby is such a weird and different league. I still find it intruiging on a conceptual basis, but I don't understand how anyone could look at a structure with 6 teams in SA, 5 in Australia and NZ, 1 in Argentina and Japan and expect to get a fair/balanced/sustainable competition out of it. When the salary cap is relatively small surely some teams must be spending more on logistically getting their players to and from games than on paying those players to play. It's all just such a weird and wonderful world, but it seems likely to continue crashing down even if they try to get the comp smaller again.

    From my perspective on the Brumbies, they are a team that genuinely has support across basically all demographics in Canberra and growing up they were a huge deal. If there was a bigger population there then keeping them would be a no brainer, but comparing the relative size of Canberra and Perth I can understand the room for growth argument. Very hard to expect business like this to make calls on potential when times are lean, though.
     
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  2. Monocle

    Monocle Premium Platinum

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    Kudos to Rugby WA for getting Malcolm McCusker to represent them, very astute move on their behalf .
    He and administrative and constitutional law expert Matthew Howard together will be a formidable legal team that ARU will be going up against.

    ARU are now in for one hell of a legal battle.

    I think ARU may have seriously underestimated the fight and resolve in the West to fight this.
     
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  3. Scotland

    Scotland Hall of Famer

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    I like the name.

    The Australian franchises are inconsistent AF when it comes to naming, though. Queensland Reds, NSW Waratahs, Western Force. All state names. The ACT Brumbies are now just 'Brumbies' because 'ACT and Southern NSW' is cumbersome, and then you have the Melbourne Rebels.

    There has been a push in recent years for franchises to just have monikers without geographic identifiers. It's Lions vs Hurricanes, rather than Joburg Lions vs Wellington Hurricanes. Etc.
     
  4. chibimatty

    chibimatty Club Legend

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    The SA and NZ sides started phasing out the geographical identifiers from 1998 and by 2000 they were all gone. There's been a push by Australia to regain them as they believe it helps to market to a mainstream Australian audience.
     
  5. The_Reaper

    The_Reaper Hall of Famer

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    Australia needs it
     
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  6. Scotland

    Scotland Hall of Famer

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  7. samFFC

    samFFC Premiership Player

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    Surely goodbye Rebels if either has to go?
    Great performance by Force - another big offensive performance.
     
  8. Scotland

    Scotland Hall of Famer

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    The ARU have no idea what they are doing.
     
  9. samFFC

    samFFC Premiership Player

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    Certainly not...
     
  10. Seedsfan

    Seedsfan Norm Smith Medallist

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    Lol you have one season that you finish above us a year we have been decimated by injuries. Bye bye Force
     
  11. Scotland

    Scotland Hall of Famer

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    "Once"

    No one cares about the Rebels, not even the bloke who owns them.
     

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  12. Seedsfan

    Seedsfan Norm Smith Medallist

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    Oh yeah and everyone loves the Force. If Andrew Cox didn't care he would of sold the license instead of spending money taking legal action to keep us in the comp
     
  13. robbieando

    robbieando Moderator

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    Please. Lets not make this personal, I think we would all agree that neither side should have to go and the last thing I would want to see is a blood feud start over something we all should be united against. Debate the merits if anything but lets all save our hate for the ARU and SANZAAR
     
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  14. samFFC

    samFFC Premiership Player

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    This has been the year of relevance to the ARU, supposedly.
    Crowd numbers, on-field performance.

    Also:
    Rebels ahead 2012 (just), 2013(just), 2015, 2016
    Force ahead 2011, 2014, 2017 (so far)

    Hardly "one year".
     
  15. samFFC

    samFFC Premiership Player

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    Fair enough. Apologies. :)
     
  16. Seedsfan

    Seedsfan Norm Smith Medallist

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    The last Wallabies side to take the park had 3 Rebels in the run on side and one on the bench while the Force had one player in the run on side and no one on the bench. Furthermore these were all blokes who got there shot playing in Melbourne.
     
  17. Seedsfan

    Seedsfan Norm Smith Medallist

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    Just proves my point the Force have been the worst side for a long time. They have been in for 11-12 years and still nothing. The Rebels have been finishing higher and producing more Wallabies. Plus we have been far stronger in the under 20s
     
  18. samFFC

    samFFC Premiership Player

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    Rebels haven't been finishing higher. Force often losing players to other sides.
     
  19. Scotland

    Scotland Hall of Famer

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    None of the capped Wallabies playing for the Rebels are from Melbourne, which is kind of the point of why they (and the Brumbies to a lesser degree) don't add anything to the comp.

    Dayne Haylett-Petty and Kyle Godwin (both born o/s) grew up in Perth and have made it to the Wallabies without needing to play in Brisbane or Sydney. That is a huge tick for the progress the Force have made. Plenty of others including Pocock, O'Connor, Cummins, Hodgson etc. got their start with the Force. Earlier in the year 8 local players in the matchday squad. Another tick.

    I'm not hating on the Rebels, 6 years isn't long enough to make real inroads. But Australian rugby is suffering because there isn't enough talent to go around. None of the 5 teams are successful on field or off, and the ARU is looking for low hanging fruit. It makes no sense to cut the team that after a decade of work is starting to grow the talent pool. Even though WA rugby is the 3rd biggest market in the country I'd expect the Rebels to be producing more local players in another 4-5 years. The ARU will rue cutting either side going forward.
     
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  20. Seedsfan

    Seedsfan Norm Smith Medallist

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    We have been in the comp 6 years and finished above you 4 times what do you mean we haven't finished higher?
     
  21. Seedsfan

    Seedsfan Norm Smith Medallist

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    It wasn't long ago Naivalu was playing Dewar Shield rugby for Box Hill. Hallen-Petty pissed off to France for a number of years and was originally from South Africa. Guys like Rocky Elsom, Digby Ioane and Christian Lealiifano are all Wallabies that grew up in Melbourne and had to move away as the Rebels weren't there then so we don't just rely on players coming from other states. Victoria in terms of participation is the fastest growing state and with the advent of the Rebels and the development pathways now in place we should finally be able to hold talented youngsters in the state. In all seriousness as bad as it sounds because they are our most successful club but if a side has to go the it should be the Brumbies give the southern end of their catchment zone to the Rebels and the north to the Tahs
     
  22. Seedsfan

    Seedsfan Norm Smith Medallist

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    Also if Super Rugby has to come back to 15 sides and two are going from South Africa doesn't it make sense to cut the Japanese? They have their own professional league a lot of there top players don't bother playing Super Rugby. I get why we have a side in Argentina as there was no professional rugby there and they were losing player to Europe at an alarming rate. But seriously the Japanese side is a joke. Cut that and we are back to 15 sides
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2017
  23. Scotland

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    Absolutely the Brumbies should go. ACT doesn't warrant its own side.

    Geniuses that they are, the ARU narrowed it down to the Force and Rebels without considering what is really best for the long term.
     
  24. Scotland

    Scotland Hall of Famer

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    TV rights.

    But yes, we don't need the Sunwolves. Or Jaguares really.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2017
  25. samFFC

    samFFC Premiership Player

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    Soon to be 4/7.

    Good point re: Brumbies. Whichever way you dice it, it's a sticky situation for the ARU. And if they have shown anything it is that they can't handle difficult situations or decisions well...