Future of Super Rugby

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Bomberboyokay

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Sep 27, 2014
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Australian Super Rugby teams sorted by average attendance in 2017

1) Reds (16,100)
2) Waratahs (15,085)
3) Brumbies (10,025)
4) Force (9,347)
5) Rebels (8,446)

https://www.shrugbyblog.com/2017/02...-2017-sr-2017-crowds-in-australia-conference/

...aaaand the Force beat the Reds again and move into 3rd in the Australian conference.

Australian rugby is a mess.

This has been the year of relevance to the ARU, supposedly.
Crowd numbers, on-field performance.

Also:
Rebels ahead 2012 (just), 2013(just), 2015, 2016
Force ahead 2011, 2014, 2017 (so far)

Hardly "one year".

The 2017 attendances for the Rebels and Force can't mean much now. People aren't idiots; they won't spend money on a team that could get the death penalty at any moment. I was planning to go to a game this year but there's no ******* way I'm putting money down now. By the looks of it that'll be the case for the entire season.
 

Great8

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Absolutely the Brumbies should go. ACT doesn't warrant its own side.

Geniuses that they are, the ARU narrowed it down to the Force and Rebels without considering what is really best for the long term.
We don't get the crowds and never will due to population and financially we just always seem to be up against it. It's an absolute credit that we have been the best performed Australian side by a country mile and a sad indictment on how much of a basket case the Reds and Tahs are.
Rugby in Australia is on its knees and needs a huge overhaul. I am an Adelaide based Brumbies member and have been since dot and would be sad to see us go but I do fear for our existence
 

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Great8

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We had 14k against the Chiefs last month (many to see the Chiefs, obvs).

The speculation will no doubt be keeping crowds down, but what is the Brumbies/Reds/Waratahs excuse?
Population in our case.
Reds/Tahs have had embarrassing crowds for years.
 

Seedsfan

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When people talk about Melbourne and say that the Rebels can't be successful because of the Storm. The Storm are a team almost all made up of ring ins, they have been here 20 years and have 1 Victorian player in the senior squad. Where as off the top of my head at the Rebels we already have had 3 blokes who played juniors in Vic play Super Rugby here, the Storm have a bandwagon following as the club is successful and that's it. Rugby League is not a threat to Union in Victoria the club presents is almost nonexistent
 

Seedsfan

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The Rebels have 5 at the moment who have played Super Rugby this year of have a Super Rugby contract being Jordan Uelese (a 20 year old who was spoken about as a future wallaby when Cheika named the squad), Rob Leota (another 20 year old), Sione Tuipulotu (another 20 year old) Siliva Siliva (26 year old) and Fereti Sa'aga (22). In our short time in Melbourne we have grown grassroots rugby and if we are still in the comp in 5 years time you will se at least a third of our squad being Victoria's. I am by no means calling for the Force to be cut I am firmly of the belief we are stronger as 5
 

Seedsfan

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Does anyone agree with me that this could potentially be a positive for rugby long term? I say this because it is starting to look more likely that we will be able to keep both the Rebels and the Force, with the support from the Victorian and WA governments to fund these sides means that they will have financial security and won't be a drain on the ARU. If they can manage to get the Reds and Tahs right we will have 4 sides turning a profit this will means the ARU will be in a far better financial position allowing them to pay player more to retain players in Aus and spend more on grassroots and junior development
 

Bomberboyokay

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Does anyone agree with me that this could potentially be a positive for rugby long term? I say this because it is starting to look more likely that we will be able to keep both the Rebels and the Force, with the support from the Victorian and WA governments to fund these sides means that they will have financial security and won't be a drain on the ARU. If they can manage to get the Reds and Tahs right we will have 4 sides turning a profit this will means the ARU will be in a far better financial position allowing them to pay player more to retain players in Aus and spend more on grassroots and junior development

There is no chance the VIC and WA governments are going to pay to keep Super Rugby teams solvent.
 
Oct 9, 2001
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Apart from the fact the have committed to funding them

What funding relates to either the Force or the Rebels as a going concern? Both state governments certainly haven't promised to fund the shortfall of each side (that stays with either RugbyWA for the Force or Andrew Cox for the Rebels) going forward.

I know the Victorian Government have made commitments to the ARU for a package of Test Matches and to the VRU for a Centre of Excellence that isn't the same as funding a Super Rugby team.
 

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Seedsfan

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What funding relates to either the Force or the Rebels as a going concern? Both state governments certainly haven't promised to fund the shortfall of each side (that stays with either RugbyWA for the Force or Andrew Cox for the Rebels) going forward.

I know the Victorian Government have made commitments to the ARU for a package of Test Matches and to the VRU for a Centre of Excellence that isn't the same as funding a Super Rugby team.
Both of them have promised to fund shortfalls to help keep their side in the competition
 
Oct 9, 2001
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Both of them have promised to fund shortfalls to help keep their side in the competition

Please provide a link, as I can see no such statement from either Government stating as such. No government would (or should) promise to cover a loss making sports teams shortfall as that opens the door for other sports and clubs to make similar requests.

The only Government money I've seen relates to the staging of Wallabies Tests (with the Victorian Government threatened to pull funding for upcoming Test in Melbourne being made up by the WA Government bringing forward their payments and taking over from Melbourne if the Rebels get pulled)
 

RedV3x

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Dec 14, 2015
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Please provide a link, as I can see no such statement from either Government stating as such. No government would (or should) promise to cover a loss making sports teams shortfall as that opens the door for other sports and clubs to make similar requests.

Well the W.A. government did. It actually caused a big stink because (from memory) something like $1 million odd from a $3.4 road fund was offered.
Nothing was further heard until the W.A. said they would pay $5 million for the Bledisloe Cup at the new stadium IF the Force were retained.
So in a direct and an indirect way the W.A. government is underwritiing the Force.
 
Oct 9, 2001
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Well the W.A. government did. It actually caused a big stink because (from memory) something like $1 million odd from a $3.4 road fund was offered.
Nothing was further heard until the W.A. said they would pay $5 million for the Bledisloe Cup at the new stadium IF the Force were retained.
So in a direct and an indirect way the W.A. government is underwritiing the Force.

A sponsorship (to the team) and paying for a Bledisloe Cup (to the ARU) isn't underwriting a club that already loses money, as that already exists on both sides and both state governments have put forward strong statements on that front. Its the premise that the losses going forward will be covered by the respective state governments as an "underwriter" on top of what is already in place sponsorship wise (because regardless of what is said the Wallabies Test don't benefit the clubs, only the ARU), that hasn't been promised by either government that has been claimed.
 

Seedsfan

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Please provide a link, as I can see no such statement from either Government stating as such. No government would (or should) promise to cover a loss making sports teams shortfall as that opens the door for other sports and clubs to make similar requests.

The only Government money I've seen relates to the staging of Wallabies Tests (with the Victorian Government threatened to pull funding for upcoming Test in Melbourne being made up by the WA Government bringing forward their payments and taking over from Melbourne if the Rebels get pulled)
It was in one of the long statements the club released. But considering the Vic government pays out a few million a year for the F1s I don't think spending on the Rebels is a bad idea
 
Oct 9, 2001
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It was in one of the long statements the club released. But considering the Vic government pays out a few million a year for the F1s I don't think spending on the Rebels is a bad idea

https://melbournerebels.com/2017/05/19/melbourne-rebels-statement-3/

The Melbourne Rebels acknowledge the strong support given by the Victorian Government to the Club and rugby in the State.

The above line in the club statement doesn't equal a promise from the state government to cover the club's ongoing shortfall nor does it even imply it.

As for saying the F1 is the same as the Rebels so pay their losses, that is not the same thing as one is a yearly major event and the other is a club team that operates year round. The state government pays for Wallabies Tests like it does for the F1 under the major events banner, that is responsible.

Under your plan, every sporting club in this state would be able to claim ongoing state government support and then proceed to overspend because you don't think its a bad idea.
 

Seedsfan

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https://melbournerebels.com/2017/05/19/melbourne-rebels-statement-3/



The above line in the club statement doesn't equal a promise from the state government to cover the club's ongoing shortfall nor does it even imply it.

As for saying the F1 is the same as the Rebels so pay their losses, that is not the same thing as one is a yearly major event and the other is a club team that operates year round. The state government pays for Wallabies Tests like it does for the F1 under the major events banner, that is responsible.

Under your plan, every sporting club in this state would be able to claim ongoing state government support and then proceed to overspend because you don't think its a bad idea.
We would be better off spending money on the Rebels than the GP. There was another statement further outlining the support
 
Oct 9, 2001
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We would be better off spending money on the Rebels than the GP.

Again a club side is different to a yearly major event. You keep missing that fact because of the dangerous precedent it would set.

There was another statement further outlining the support

This statement from the Minister for Sport, the only statement from the Minister on the subject should be more than enough to prove that they aren't going to cover any shortfall as you have claimed.

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/statement-on-the-future-of-the-melbourne-rebels/

Tests yes, but shortfalls??? Nope...
 
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Seedsfan

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There is talk that Adam Coleman will sign for the Rebels in 2018. It would be a great get for the Rebels he is originally from Tasmania so to a certain extent comes out of the Rebels Zone
 

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