Future of Super Rugby
- Thread starter Seedsfan
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Monocle
And the rebuild begins.
- Sep 18, 2003
- 11,806
- 35,980
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Other Teams
- Claremont NE Patriots Eagles AFLW
Billionaire Andrew 'Twiggy" Forrest has last night committed to financially backing the Western Force to stay in the competition.
He has some serious coin to back up that statement and commitment.
The plot just got considerably thickened.
He has some serious coin to back up that statement and commitment.
The plot just got considerably thickened.
- Thread starter
- #178
The Force will still get chopped, it should be the Brumbies who make way. The ARU stuffed up big time when we needed a third side that should have gone to Melbourne then the 4th side in Perth. Then if we needed a 5th side put it in the ACT. The Force and Rebels are actually growing Rugby in Aus and to cut either of them would be stupid but that's the ARU for you
Monocle
And the rebuild begins.
- Sep 18, 2003
- 11,806
- 35,980
- AFL Club
- West Coast
- Other Teams
- Claremont NE Patriots Eagles AFLW
They won't chop the Force next year because they will have a massive legal challenge that will be court bound and cost millions.
- Thread starter
- #180
What ever they do it will wind up in court
Expect the Rebels to go. Competition is in an incredibly sad state at the moment- although the Sunwolves had a fantastic win yesterday 
- Thread starter
- #182
They simply can not cut the Rebels rugby will die in Victoria as a result, it's the fastest growing market for rugby in the country and also Melbourne is the fastest growing city. They keep saying Melbourne will be 8mill by 2050, it would be beyond stupid to lock yourself out of that market.Expect the Rebels to go. Competition is in an incredibly sad state at the moment- although the Sunwolves had a fantastic win yesterday
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
- AFL Club
- West Coast
Which is what everyone in WA has been saying about WA all year.
WA rugby is bigger than Victoria rugby even if Victoria has 5m more people.
I agree completely but the same case can be made for WA.
- Thread starter
- #185
That's right that is why the Brumbies should go. Rugby is growing in Vic and WA they are both bigger markets. They need to make the best call for the future of the game
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
- AFL Club
- West Coast
The Cheetahs and Kings are off to play Pro12. I fear this will be bad for SA Rugby, as players will eventually want to join those two sides for the potential money on offer playing Pro12 and Champion's Cup, weakening the 4 remaining SA sides.
I don't know why SANZAAR didn't push for a two-tier competition. Something like:
Top 8: 4 x SA/Arg/Jap, 4 x Aus/NZ/Jap
Bottom 10: the rest
Both conferences play H&A with semi finals and a final. Relegation for the bottom 2, promotion for the winner and runner up of div 2.
I don't know why SANZAAR didn't push for a two-tier competition. Something like:
Top 8: 4 x SA/Arg/Jap, 4 x Aus/NZ/Jap
Bottom 10: the rest
Both conferences play H&A with semi finals and a final. Relegation for the bottom 2, promotion for the winner and runner up of div 2.
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
"fastest growing" is spin for "starting from a small base". Add in "potential" and you have cliche'.
But reality is that the ARU didn't make the right decisions and cannot make the hard decisions.
It's history that the ARU didn't re-locate the Brumbies from a city that struggles to support an elite team.
It's history that the ARU created two new teams.
The reality is a lose/lose situation. The choice which is the better for the long-term.
National or international, each affects the other most ?
Dragging out the situation is only making the situation worse and no matter what the decision
there are going to be a lot of unhappy people. Better to re-build as soon as possible.
Thus Twiggy's help could be a hindrance.
- Thread starter
- #188
I get that but it's only going to be a year or two before there are more players in Vic than WA. Now I don't want either of these markets closed off to the game, I don't know as much about the state of club rugby in WA but I assume it received a fair boost when the Force started. For the long term future of Australian rugby they need the Rebels and the Force.
The Brumbies need to make way as that is what is best for the game
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
They haven't made a difference have they. You have two new teams and the standard is much worse.
Want ? It's a case of what is economically feasible.
The good crowds have in the beginning have consistently fallen away.
The Tahs and Reds. ARU needs those teams winning - simple as that.
- May 5, 2006
- 62,726
- 70,017
- AFL Club
- West Coast
I don't really buy the '5 teams is weakening Australian rugby' angle, I think it's deeper than that.
The Waratahs had Hooper, Phipps, Foley, Folau, Kepu, Horne, Mumm, Dempsey in their squad on Saturday. If half a potential Wallabies XV can't beat a single NZ provincial side then we're in deep poop.
The bulk of the Wallabies squad is concentrated in the Waratahs, Reds and Brumbies just as it's always been. There were 11 Waratahs, 7 Reds and 8 Brumbies in the most recent Wallabies squad compared to 4 from the Force and 5 from the Rebels.
It was only 3 years ago that the Waratahs won the Super Rugby Final, and there has been 5 Australian teams in the comp since 2011. Folau, Horne, Foley, Phipps, Hooper, Kepu and Polota-Nau all played in that final. Kurtley Beale buggered off to Wasps and is now coming back. Two-dads buggered off to Bordeaux. Skelton buggered off to Saracens. Palu buggered off to Japan. Kane Douglas joined the Reds. Is Polota-Nau joining us for this season at 32 the reason for the Tahs' failings? Hardly. I count 4 players leaving for overseas rugby plus Rob Horne going after this season just finished.
Skelton, Charles, Fardy, Cummins, David 'hey look at me' Pocock, Tomane, Genia, O'Connor, Beale, Horwill... the list of Australians outside Super Rugby altogether is massive. I don't see the solution to that as one fewer Super Rugby team.
The Waratahs had Hooper, Phipps, Foley, Folau, Kepu, Horne, Mumm, Dempsey in their squad on Saturday. If half a potential Wallabies XV can't beat a single NZ provincial side then we're in deep poop.
The bulk of the Wallabies squad is concentrated in the Waratahs, Reds and Brumbies just as it's always been. There were 11 Waratahs, 7 Reds and 8 Brumbies in the most recent Wallabies squad compared to 4 from the Force and 5 from the Rebels.
It was only 3 years ago that the Waratahs won the Super Rugby Final, and there has been 5 Australian teams in the comp since 2011. Folau, Horne, Foley, Phipps, Hooper, Kepu and Polota-Nau all played in that final. Kurtley Beale buggered off to Wasps and is now coming back. Two-dads buggered off to Bordeaux. Skelton buggered off to Saracens. Palu buggered off to Japan. Kane Douglas joined the Reds. Is Polota-Nau joining us for this season at 32 the reason for the Tahs' failings? Hardly. I count 4 players leaving for overseas rugby plus Rob Horne going after this season just finished.
Skelton, Charles, Fardy, Cummins, David 'hey look at me' Pocock, Tomane, Genia, O'Connor, Beale, Horwill... the list of Australians outside Super Rugby altogether is massive. I don't see the solution to that as one fewer Super Rugby team.
- Thread starter
- #191
Couldn't agree more
- Thread starter
- #192
The Tahs won in the 15 team era. It's not the Force and Rebels that are the problem. They are the future and long term will provide growth to the game. The problem is in the heartland of NSW and Queensland both those teams have massively underperformed for the talent at their disposal. Cutting a side won't fix that.
We need to address why so many players leave it's not a money thing it's a culture thing we lose more of our top tier players than NZ.
The only market that is not economically viable is the ACT, the Rebels and Force may bleed money in the short to medium term but with continued investment we will be able to see both clubs thrive in the long term and grow the game in Australia
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
But they haven't, have they. That's why we're in the current situation.
That's what everybody knows.
Yes, you might have to cut two teams and go back to the winning formula.
Time and money has simply run out. The ARU has rolled the dice and lost most people accept that.
In hindsight very few expansion teams succeed.
- Thread starter
- #194
Lol I can't take you seriously. The Force and Rebels haven't been around for the long term yet that's why they are yet to have an impact.
Australian sides won super rugby twice in the 3 team era and twice in the 4/5 team era but yeah 3 teams are clearly the most successful.
Seeings that the Brumbies will never be able to stand on there own feet financially maybe the ARU should make the hard call and get rid of them for the good of the game.
Also you say expansion sides don't work yet the Brumbies were our first expansion side (as before the start of Super Rugby we had two provincial sides the Reds and Waratahs) and yet the expansion club has won 2 championships to on one
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
EXACTLY.
That's your call.
I said "very few expansion teams succeed." You call the Brumbies an expansion team and you say they are unviable.
Where's the conflict ?
What is YOUR plan for survival w.r.t. the current situation?
You say it is still early for the Force and the Rebels so how is rugby going to attract newcomers if the Wallabies are being walloped ?
- Thread starter
- #196
The Brumbies won't be financially viable as the market they play in is too small. They have been struggling for financially for the past few years and they have no prospects of growth. Long term they are better of putting that money into the Rebels or Force. Look at the under 20s there were two Victorian born Rebels in the side and two of the better performers. Look at the WA Wallabies starting to come through. Having these side will make Australian rugby stronger saying that we need NSW and Queensland to be strong and then the Victorians and West Aussies could compliment that nicely
If we can only afford to fund 4 sides we should cut the side that will have the lest impact long term. The Brumbies zone could easily be split between the Tahs and Rebels
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
So you're saying cull a team and make it the Brumbies.
You can mount a case for saving/culling any of three teams.
The medicine is virtually the same.
IMO you've overestimated any "impact" the Force has had in W.A.
At the professional level they have no impact.
- Thread starter
- #198
Yeah it was a bad year for rugby in Australia but the Force finished second and West Aussie should be bloody proud of them. They are a team on the rise and don't deserve to get cut
RedV3x
It's about time some mods started being fair
In professional sport it's all about a business model not "deserving".
thegreig
Club Legend
You are contradicting yourself, If it's all about business then cut the brumbies as they have extremely limited room for growth compared to Melbourne and the Force. Despite the fact their history on filed says they deserve to stay.
