Academy: Gold Coast SUNS Gun Factory

[Matchu]

agreed - but surely Rocket fit that bill to a tee??

I heard from a Gold Coast staffer last year that Rocket's biggest problem was the disconnect between him and the young players, which was mainly due to his old school techniques of coaching. The players would occasionally allude to Rocket being up there with the best when it came to handing out a spray and I don't think the younger guys took to that approach very well.

Dew seems to have a different approach and if you watch the recent interview with Jesse Joyce you'll hear him talking about the new-found positivity around the group when someone makes a mistake. So I think the people management skills, coupled with old coaching techniques, hurt Rocket a fair bit when you talk about getting the best out of a playing group. No doubt they also got very unlucky with injuries but I think it would be unfair to say that's the sole reason they didn't win many games under Rodney Eade.

 

[Dammit]

I heard from a Gold Coast staffer last year that Rocket's biggest problem was the disconnect between him and the young players, which was mainly due to his old school techniques of coaching. The players would occasionally allude to Rocket being up there with the best when it came to handing out a spray and I don't think the younger guys took to that approach very well.

Dew seems to have a different approach and if you watch the recent interview with Jesse Joyce you'll hear him talking about the new-found positivity around the group when someone makes a mistake. So I think the people management skills, coupled with old coaching techniques, hurt Rocket a fair bit when you talk about getting the best out of a playing group. No doubt they also got very unlucky with injuries but I think it would be unfair to say that's the sole reason they didn't win many games under Rodney Eade.

For sure, nice post.
I just wanted to address the accountability point re interstate clubs. I think it's integral and arguably the most important point when we speak about culture. Rocket was a lot of things, but absolutely he held players accountable. Whether that translated or not I'd argue is on the players to a large extent.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

For sure, nice post.
I just wanted to address the accountability point re interstate clubs. I think it's integral and arguably the most important point when we speak about culture. Rocket was a lot of things, but absolutely he held players accountable. Whether that translated or not I'd argue is on the players to a large extent.

I think Matchu is also saying, Eade is the manager type coach, spending most of his time with the line coaches, little time individually, and even as a group. Whereas Dew is one to one with the players, building relationships. Roos in Sydney, I think had a good mix between the two.

 

[Matchu]

For sure, nice post.
I just wanted to address the accountability point re interstate clubs. I think it's integral and arguably the most important point when we speak about culture. Rocket was a lot of things, but absolutely he held players accountable. Whether that translated or not I'd argue is on the players to a large extent.

I often hear players talk about 'genuine care' when discussing good coaching styles. Would Rocket's approach have translated as 'genuine care' to the younger players? My guess would be - probably not. We have to remember that kids these days are being brought up in a different way with instant gratification being the norm. There is a massive concern in the teaching industry these days that these kids aren't properly developing the resilience required to handle criticism/rejection in the real world. That means brutal honesty doesn't translate well because it's not something these kids are used to.

Therefore, I feel Dew's approach will be more effective than Rocket's.

I think Matchu is also saying, Eade is the manager type coach, spending most of his time with the line coaches, little time individually, and even as a group. Whereas Dew is one to one with the players, building relationships. Roos in Sydney, I think had a good mix between the two.

Certainly a factor. It's difficult to develop a relationship with someone if you don't spend much one-on-one time with them. Look at what Dew did during the EDP Camp as an example of his different approach.

 

[17er]

A journalist once asked Paul Roos what he thought was the biggest difference between coaching in Sydney as opposed to coaching in Melbourne and he said by the time the team returned for meetings on Monday morning he didn't have to come down on the Melbourne players as hard because they'd already copped from the media/public. He was essentially saying the lack of media coverage (or scrutiny) in Sydney meant it was extremely important for the Swans to drive their own internal standards in order to be successful. It's the exact same situation for the Suns and Stuart Dew would understand that.

So when you talk about having a 'winning culture' it's multifaceted but I feel driving high internal standards is one of the biggest factors that has held the Suns back in the past. If your coaching staff doesn't demand the highest level of accountability from the players then it's just not going to work at the top level and the whole Bloods culture is based around accountability. If Stuart Dew is the main I think he is and he has the strong people management skills that everyone says he does, then he will make this work.

Yeah, bloody good points there. Culture is so complex that even breaking it down for discussion takes out the intangible nature of it. I believe Dew is the man for the job because he came from Port and the Hawks, where those clubs pulled together for premierships, then had his coaching apprenticeship with Sydney and the associated folklore that has arisen from the Bloods culture.
I also think that Roos quite enjoys spinning his yarns and is a master of misdirection. No doubt the Sydney media were softer on their own team when they lost - it is pretty hard to find the AFL section of a Sydney paper - but the Melbourne media more than made up for it. I just think Sydney has an interesting history and no lack of motivations to draw from as inspiration for the players. Kevin Sheedy and Leigh Matthews were great ones for giving rousing speeches before games, not to mention tearing strips off players in the huddle, but they were teddy bears behind closed doors, mentors who genuinely cared for their players. I think Paul Roos' biggest asset was that he's an intelligent bloke who played the game at an elite level, got a coaching apprenticeship from Rocket Eade, including on what not to do, then drew on those experiences to become an elite coach. His playing career featured very few team highlights, but he did play under Premiership Coaches like Walls, Parkin, Barassi and the longest tenured coach never to win a flag.

 

[Matchu]

http://www.aflq.com.au/new-colts-teams-2018/

Some interesting changes taking places in 2018 for Queensland colts football. The colts competition is now an under 18 competition, as opposed to the under 19 competition they ran in years gone by. New colts teams in the Suns' zone include Beenleigh, Burleigh and Coomera. Here is a breakdown of how the two divisions look:

2018 QAFL Colts
Broadbeach
Labrador
Palm Beach Currumbin
Surfers Paradise

2018 QFA Colts
Beenleigh (White division)
Burleigh (Maroon division)
Coomera (White division)
Southport (White division)

Definitely worth keeping an eye on these competitions as they will now serve as an important step between junior and senior football.

 

[GcSunsfan]

BAILEY Scott is the highly touted midfielder in the enviable situation of boasting links with three AFL clubs in his AFL draft year.

And the Broadbeach Cats player has set out his criteria on how he will decide between Geelong, North Melbourne and the Gold Coast Suns should all three want to list him.

“It will basically come down to whichever club nominates me, which one wants the best out of me and to develop me as a football player and a person,” Scott said.

“Whichever club is offering that, well that is ultimately where my decision will lie.”

Scott is a Suns academy member and has father-son connections at both the Cats and Kangaroos through his father Robert who played 132 and 111 games for the Melbourne clubs respectively.

Gold Coast Suns academy player Bailey Scott (middle) while training with the senior team during the preseason. Picture: Glenn Hampson.
Robert was part of North Melbourne’s 1996 premiership team.

Scott shares an affinity with all three clubs said he was open to going to any as he reserves his decision until the end of the year.

“I’m glad to be in this position,” Scott said.

“It’s such a great opportunity to have connections to three AFL clubs. I’m open to all the clubs, even if it’s a club outside of those three that is offering those things that I spoke about then I’m happy to be at that club because they want me and want the best out of me.”

The 17-year-old was born in Geelong and grew up supporting both the Cats and Roos while also attending father-son clinics with both clubs.

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Scott moved to the Gold Coast with his family at the age of nine and joined the Suns academy at 12 where he has since become one of the most regarded players in his age group.

He spent a week training with each club at the end of last year and said very little separated them.

“They are all very similar,” Scott said.

“The only thing that can set them apart is facilities but once one upgrades then there is always another just around the corner.

“That is what is happening right through the AFL and all the sports currently in Australia.”

Scott said his father shared his open mind and was ready to back him with whatever decision he makes.

“He has said he will be very supportive of the decision I make, whatever that would be,” Scott said.

“Dad gives me another point of view and it’s another set of eyes and ears when analysing the clubs.”

For now Scott said his focus was on developing his football in 2018 after returning from the US where he attended the IMG Academy in Florida and various other places with the AFL national academy.

 

[Young_Guns]

“It will basically come down to whichever club nominates me, which one wants the best out of me and to develop me as a football player and a person,” Scott said.

“Whichever club is offering that, well that is ultimately where my decision will lie.”

I really hope the kid sticks around and comes to us, but he might wanna refine his criteria a bit. I feel like all 18 clubs say this to every prospect they meet every year to sweet talk to their club. Looks like a tough decision between 18 clubs for him at this stage.

 

[Mini GF]

I really hope the kid sticks around and comes to us, but he might wanna refine his criteria a bit. I feel like all 18 clubs say this to every prospect they meet every year to sweet talk to their club. Looks like a tough decision between 18 clubs for him at this stage.

I didn’t like what he was saying one bit. An academy player should be hell keen to be drafted by us.
Yeah I’m not impressed.

 

[Iva Bigun]

I didn’t like what he was saying one bit. An academy player should be hell keen to be drafted by us.
Yeah I’m not impressed.

I think he’s just giving himself the best chance, if for an example he said now he wanted to go to the Roos it would put off the other suitors and what if they didn’t pick him up? The other suitors may of moved on

 

[Dammit]

I didn’t like what he was saying one bit. An academy player should be hell keen to be drafted by us.
Yeah I’m not impressed.

yep - honestly what is the point of bringing him through our academy, investing so much time and money into him, just for him to go "I'm literally open to any club". what an absolute joke.

 

[Sunraysia]

Bailey must hedge his bets - given his unique circumstances.
Unlike past Academy graduates Bailey cannot be 100% committed to the Suns.
That may also work against him - clubs may not nominate him thinking he has all these other interested clubs, in a worst case scenario none may take him (though that's unlikely).
From the Suns viewpoint Bailey's National U18 form, NEAFL form and QAFL finals form will determine whether or not he joins our list . Suns recruiters have definitely used these as measures to judge Academy players in last couple of years.
Worst case for Suns is that we develop a player for another club. eg Brayden Pruess, Josh Williams - North Melbourne.
You also have cases like Sam Davidson - who was overlooked in last years draft - but has now signed a contract with Port Adelaide's SANFL team with a view to be drafted in the future.
Bottom line -Suns Academy is producing AFL and top quality players.

 

[OB11]

I didn’t like what he was saying one bit. An academy player should be hell keen to be drafted by us.
Yeah I’m not impressed.

No academy player can come out and say I love the Suns and I want to spend the rest of my days here when he has signed no contract and the club is unable to offer him a contract / nominate him at this time (see Bailey Williams). His major focus is getting drafted.

Given he's spent 5 years in the academy he may felt like throwing us a bone and at least have commented about how they have helped his development.

If we nominate him at the end of the year and he turns us down then we are entitled to be dirty with him.

 

[SunsBhoy]

No academy player can come out and say I love the Suns and I want to spend the rest of my days here when he has signed no contract and the club is unable to offer him a contract / nominate him at this time (see Bailey Williams). His major focus is getting drafted.

Given he's spent 5 years in the academy he may felt like throwing us a bone and at least have commented about how they have helped his development.

If we nominate him at the end of the year and he turns us down then we are entitled to be dirty with him.

I remember speaking to Bowes about the draft and he said he found out he was going to be picked up on the day of the draft , and that’s from our highest pick ever , so guys like Scott etc have to keep there options open if they want to be drafted cause in reality they don’t have to much security in there position atm . One thing that does help is our shift to more local product which should give him some confidence going forward.


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[Matchu]

I remember speaking to Bowes about the draft and he said he found out he was going to be picked up on the day of the draft , and that’s from our highest pick ever , so guys like Scott etc have to keep there options open if they want to be drafted cause in reality they don’t have to much security in there position atm . One thing that does help is our shift to more local product which should give him some confidence going forward.

They are all instructed to say they'd be happy to be picked up by any club that wants them. Deep down Bowes probably wanted to be a Sun but he couldn't say that publicly because it no only hurts his chances of being drafted but also means he's likely to be taken later in the draft (which means a lower salary). Crossley also said he would be happy to be picked up by any club when asked if he wanted to go to the Suns. This is standard behaviour for kids that are entering the national draft.

Then you have unique cases like Lachie Weller who would often say he wanted to be a Sun in his early junior footy days. Then, suddenly, he began saying he was willing to go to any club in his draft year. They are told to say these things by their managers and it isn't a fair indication of where they actually want to play footy. We now know Lachie wanted to play on the Gold Coast but he couldn't outright say that at the time.

 

[Peel67skin]

They are all instructed to say they'd be happy to be picked up by any club that wants them. Deep down Bowes probably wanted to be a Sun but he couldn't say that publicly because it no only hurts his chances of being drafted but also means he's likely to be taken later in the draft (which means a lower salary). Crossley also said he would be happy to be picked up by any club when asked if he wanted to go to the Suns. This is standard behaviour for kids that are entering the national draft.

Then you have unique cases like Lachie Weller who would often say he wanted to be a Sun in his early junior footy days. Then, suddenly, he began saying he was willing to go to any club in his draft year. They are told to say these things by their managers and it isn't a fair indication of where they actually want to play footy. We now know Lachie wanted to play on the Gold Coast but he couldn't outright say that at the time.

Agree is not ideal for academy players to indicate his prefer club at this stage and then get overlook due to injuries or bad form later.

 

[Mini GF]

No academy player can come out and say I love the Suns and I want to spend the rest of my days here when he has signed no contract and the club is unable to offer him a contract / nominate him at this time (see Bailey Williams). His major focus is getting drafted.

Given he's spent 5 years in the academy he may felt like throwing us a bone and at least have commented about how they have helped his development.

If we nominate him at the end of the year and he turns us down then we are entitled to be dirty with him.

I understand and I generally agree. I would like a bone thrown at us however just so he doesn’t sound like an Ingrate.

 

[17er]

Looking at the Scott situation from a Draft standpoint, the Suns have the strongest hand at this stage. Given that the Cats, Roos and Suns all have to wait until season's end to find out draft order, the Suns odds are better with their gamble on West Coast's tumble down the ladder to give them a top 5 pick. A pessimistic observer would suggest that the Suns are going to get 2 Top 5 picks, while a cynic would say both top 2 spots will be Suns picks. Ever the optimist, I'll settle for West Coast drifting out of the Top 8 and the Suns surging in, while a realist would just say be happy with a couple of Top 10 picks or thereabouts. I don't think anybody is predicting a Gold Coast - West Coast Grand Final though, so 2 late first rounders is fairly improbable.

The Suns are stacked for 2nd rounders with 2 picks in the 20s and 30s, while Geelong gave us theirs and we gave West Coast our own with the other coming from the Bombers. Going on 2017 form, the Suns 2nd rounders will be in the 30s.
So, unless Geelong Trade for picks before the next Draft, their Draft position will be 1 first rounder, 2 third rounders and 2 fourth rounders.
North will have a first, a second, 2 thirds (from West Coast and St Kilda) and a fourth.
The Suns have 2 firsts, 2 seconds, and 2 thirds.

Geelong will want to spend their top pick wisely because right now that's their only pick in the top 40, possibly top 50 if they go deep in finals again. I haven't seen Bailey Scott rated in Top 20 predictions, so I question why the Cats would rate him worth the pick when they will be sweating on Sam Walsh falling to them as well as Lochlan Hocking, Oscar Brownless and Baxter Mensch are other father sons in their sights.

North are looking at trying to land 3 father sons in Bailey Scott, Joel Crocker and Nick Blakey, while they also and have their own Academy Prospect in Tarryn Thomas, but I'd suggest the Scott is 3rd on their board and could drop lower.

The Suns have 6 picks in the first 3 rounds and by far the most ammunition to go after Bailey Scott. I really hope we do, even if it means paying more than anyone else does. I don't believe the Suns will actually need to use all 6 picks on 6 players, so we should have the capability of out-bidding either rival without necessarily destroying the rest of our draft strategy.

The other factor is the 20% points value discount, which is why I believe the Suns are sitting pretty. Even if Bailey Scott races up draft chart predictions, he will still not need to be bid for until late first round or early second. This will also be impacted by the total buttload of father son and talent academy players bound to flood this year's draft, with Next Generation Academies now producing potential high Draft picks with clubs able to match bids as well as the Northern States.

Bailey Scott might not even rate for Geelong or Norf in this Superdraft.

 

[Kwality]

I didn’t like what he was saying one bit. An academy player should be hell keen to be drafted by us.
Yeah I’m not impressed.

Bit sensitive Bods?
Fortunately his father is not a one club player, so the spin surrounding that cant be used against you.

 

[Kwality]

They are all instructed to say they'd be happy to be picked up by any club that wants them. Deep down Bowes probably wanted to be a Sun but he couldn't say that publicly because it no only hurts his chances of being drafted but also means he's likely to be taken later in the draft (which means a lower salary). Crossley also said he would be happy to be picked up by any club when asked if he wanted to go to the Suns. This is standard behaviour for kids that are entering the national draft.

Then you have unique cases like Lachie Weller who would often say he wanted to be a Sun in his early junior footy days. Then, suddenly, he began saying he was willing to go to any club in his draft year. They are told to say these things by their managers and it isn't a fair indication of where they actually want to play footy. We now know Lachie wanted to play on the Gold Coast but he couldn't outright say that at the time.

Thought its a standard rookie wage, why good kids sign on early (Brayshaw at Freo) to have a new contract at more dollars.

 

[Mini GF]

Bit sensitive Bods?
Fortunately his father is not a one club player, so the spin surrounding that cant be used against you.

Not a fan of Ingrates. Is that sensitive?

 

[Kwality]

Not a fan of Ingrates. Is that sensitive?

Dont buy Bailey Scott fits the ingrates tag, but you are way closer than me.

 

[Peel67skin]

Dont buy Bailey Scott fits the ingrates tag, but you are way closer than me.

Must be boring that no academy guy coming up from your club.

 

[DoItForCaptBlood]

Must be boring that no academy guy coming up from your club.

They actually have 3. Yes I know not academy, but with the go home factor, they will be 'more likely' left for a while at draft time for WC or Freo. All 3, in my opinion, better prospects than Scott.

 

[Peel67skin]

They actually have 3. Yes I know not academy, but with the go home factor, they will be 'more likely' left for a while at draft time for WC or Freo. All 3, in my opinion, better prospects than Scott.

Not academy that is out of topic. Not sure why you mention it , there are no 20% discount for those players .