List Mgmt. Fyfe - Signed until 2023!!

[Unique Name]

I'm asking what you consider to be elite. You said he was in the top 1%, not me.


As I keep saying, he had a very good year in a very poor team, that had a depleted midfield due to injury and bad form. Does this mean he should be bracketed with the best in the comp? If the team improves, will his figures stay the same? What do his figures mean in context?

Whose year would you have rathered - Bontempelli (way down on the list for disposals, clearances, contested possessions) or Neale's?

As I said above Neale is an elite extractor. As an extractor I would have him in the elite bracket of the comp. Against those players you listed above, Neale was only beaten outright in clearances and contested postions by Kennedy in our round 19 clash with the Swans. Pendlebury got 2 more clearances but less contested possessions than Neale when we played Collingwood.

In 2015 only Neale's 4th year he was top 20 for clearances and 23rd for cont possessions and that was with Fyfe leading the pack in both those categories. He is improving every year, this year was s**t for our club but Lachie proved he could standup as our number 1 mid and deliver his end if the bargain, extract and clear.

To the Bont vs Neale question. Obviously the Bont as he is a more well rounded midfielder. Neale would need to be scoring more goals and be more of an aerial threat to win that. But that's my point you are saying because Neale isn't better than Fyfe, Danger, Bont you can't consider him elite.

You bracket for elite is to be the absolute best of the best in the comp which IMO is wrong.

 

[igon value]

I do get your point , if Neale need to be in elite group he need to perform consistently with those players you compare . But he only 24 this years , maybe with the return of fyfe he can continue further improve his game.

He's a very good player, however people are talking about him as being a second wheel to Fyfe. Fyfe is truly elite, in the bracket that you expect premiership winning sides to have. He will be regarded as one of the greats when he retires.

So where is Neale relative to him? Comparing to my favourite midfield of all time, he's maybe a Nigel Lappin player - the fourth best midfielder out of five, but also possibly Luke Power. Both good things to be, but while Lappin was elite (in my view), Power was not.

Forget his numbers, rank him on how he plays - the way he sets up around the ball, where his first instinct is to go in traffic, where his handballs go, whether and where he chooses to kick over handballing, etc.

 

[meima]

He's a very good player, however people are talking about him as being a second wheel to Fyfe. Fyfe is truly elite, in the bracket that you expect premiership winning sides to have. He will be regarded as one of the greats when he retires.

So where is Neale relative to him? Comparing to my favourite midfield of all time, he's maybe a Nigel Lappin player - the fourth best midfielder out of five, but also possibly Luke Power. Both good things to be, but while Lappin was elite (in my view), Power was not.

Forget his numbers, rank him on how he plays - the way he sets up around the ball, where his first instinct is to go in traffic, where his handballs go, whether and where he chooses to kick over handballing, etc.

Fair enough for me .

 

[wayToGo_]

I'm asking what you consider to be elite. You said he was in the top 1%, not me.

It will be interesting to see if Champion Data classify him as elite for his output last year. I suspect they will as statistically his numbers are in the top echelon of players for his position. I'd personally classify his output as elite as well. You are entitled to classify him whatever you wish though - doesn't bother me in the slightest. I think plenty of the inside mids for other clubs are incredibly over-rated. Most people only see the highlights of the teams they don't support - whereas they see warts and all with players from their own club.

 

[Unique Name]

He's a very good player, however people are talking about him as being a second wheel to Fyfe. Fyfe is truly elite, in the bracket that you expect premiership winning sides to have. He will be regarded as one of the greats when he retires.

So where is Neale relative to him? Comparing to my favourite midfield of all time, he's maybe a Nigel Lappin player - the fourth best midfielder out of five, but also possibly Luke Power. Both good things to be, but while Lappin was elite (in my view), Power was not.

Forget his numbers, rank him on how he plays - the way he sets up around the ball, where his first instinct is to go in traffic, where his handballs go, whether and where he chooses to kick over handballing, etc.

I think our only difference on Neale is our definition of elite. No he's not at Pendles/Fyfe/Kennedy's level yet. He is a level below them as an allround midfielder, but as an extractor I think he can match it with the best of them at acquiring and clearing the ball.

Neale's only 23, I still think he has a lot of improvement left in him.

 

[Unique Name]

Oh and 6th in the brownlow (midfielder's award). 20 votes in a season that we got pumped almost every game would probably tick the elite box too.

 

[M_rash]

Spurr is elite. Nuff sed

 

[M_rash]

Who/what is elite. Champion data for those who like numbers. Freo only had 3 elite players last year. Ild be comfortable to say Neale was one, then maybe S.Hill and Walters or Spurr.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...t/news-story/c6115c8844bbead594c93703ade7a068

 

[DudleyDocker]

100% agree.

 

[igon value]

Who/what is elite. Champion data for those who like numbers. Freo only had 3 elite players last year. Ild be comfortable to say Neale was one, then maybe S.Hill and Walters or Spurr.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...t/news-story/c6115c8844bbead594c93703ade7a068

That list counts Bob Murphy as elite, who played three games in 2016.

Therefore it is at least counting Fyfe and Sandilands as elite, with possibly Neale in the third spot - but could equally likely be Mundy or Walters (going by their definition of 'top 10% in their position').

 

[Clems Knee]

He's a very good player, however people are talking about him as being a second wheel to Fyfe. Fyfe is truly elite, in the bracket that you expect premiership winning sides to have. He will be regarded as one of the greats when he retires.

So where is Neale relative to him? Comparing to my favourite midfield of all time, he's maybe a Nigel Lappin player - the fourth best midfielder out of five, but also possibly Luke Power. Both good things to be, but while Lappin was elite (in my view), Power was not.

Forget his numbers, rank him on how he plays - the way he sets up around the ball, where his first instinct is to go in traffic, where his handballs go, whether and where he chooses to kick over handballing, etc.

Who talked about him as being a second wheel to Fyfe? That's a straw man, or those people are deluded.
Who said he was an elite player? Another straw man. I only saw references to his eliteness in one or two areas.

Nobody would say that Brad Hill is an elite footballer, but he is elite in his ability to run on the wing.

Maybe you just refused to read what others said, so you could argue with everyone.

 

[igon value]

Who talked about him as being a second wheel to Fyfe?

It's a common opinion on this board. You said yourself that he is the best ball magnet of all time - that puts him in rarefied air.

My assertion that Neale was overrated was in reaction to dominguez's question about whether there would be many teams having a better midfield than Sandilands, Mundy, Fyfe, Blakely and Neale. My contention was that quite a few could say they have better midfields than that, and absent Fyfe, it's not really much of a midfield at all, or all that different from the one that saw us win one game in the last half of 2016.

Fyfe makes all the difference, he truly separates us from having a good midfield to that which is below average.

Who said he was an elite player? Another straw man. I only saw references to his eliteness in one or two areas.

Elite hands in close and elite extraction suggest elite player - these are the attributes that are shared by the Fyfe and Ablett level of players. But Neale doesn't have elite hands in close. How often does Neale win an inside ball and shoot the handball to an outside runner while drawing his opponents in, a la Fyfe?

Nobody would say that Brad Hill is an elite footballer, but he is elite in his ability to run on the wing.

Maybe you just refused to read what others said, so you could argue with everyone.

Nobody would say that 'elite ability to run on the wing' means anything.

 

[Clems Knee]

It's a common opinion on this board. You said yourself that he is the best ball magnet of all time - that puts him in rarefied air.

My assertion that Neale was overrated was in reaction to dominguez's question about whether there would be many teams having a better midfield than Sandilands, Mundy, Fyfe, Blakely and Neale. My contention was that quite a few could say they have better midfields than that, and absent Fyfe, it's not really much of a midfield at all, or all that different from the one that saw us win one game in the last half of 2016.

Fyfe makes all the difference, he truly separates us from having a good midfield to that which is below average.


Elite hands in close and elite extraction suggest elite player - these are the attributes that are shared by the Fyfe and Ablett level of players. But Neale doesn't have elite hands in close. How often does Neale win an inside ball and shoot the handball to an outside runner while drawing his opponents in, a la Fyfe?


Nobody would say that 'elite ability to run on the wing' means anything.

Who are you? You have an annoying way of selectively quoting what people have said and adddressing only part of an idea rather than the whole argument. Straw men and misrepresentation and hammering the same old crap are your stick. You have been on this board before. Why did you change your name, or were you banned?

Where is this a common opinion on this board? You are making s**t up.
I was clearly referring to his record breaking possession getting season. In the same post I named Liberatore as the best at centre clearances. You misrepresented me.

So Dominguez put Neale 5th in a group of Midfielders, which triggered your tirade. I would say that Sandilands and Fyfe make the difference, and Mundy, if he can regain his high standards. Blakely and Neale are still young, but I will enjoy seeing how Neale goes with more quality around him. Neale deserves accolades for his ability to get the ball. No one else has ever done what he did. You carry on like every poorly performing team has a record breaking possession getter.

No, elite at one thing suggests that a player is elite at that one thing. Only you don't seem to understand that. Plenty of commentators talk about a player's ability in one area as being elite. Eg elite endurance, elite contested marking, elite speed, elite tackling.

 

[igon value]

So Dominguez put Neale 5th in a group of Midfielders, which triggered your tirade.

I didn't take dominguez's list as representative of quality of player order - otherwise why was Fyfe third (or Blakely ahead of Neale)?

It is hypocritical to accuse me of mischaracterisation and then characterise my argument as a 'tirade'. I thought we were having a reasoned discussion.

It is obvious to me that you get too emotional when discussing Fremantle players, and it is affects your perspicacity, so I won't trouble you by responding to any of your future posts.

 

[dominguez]

Long term the injuries last year to Fyfe, Mundy and Sandilands could be beneficial. It forced Neale and Blakely to carry the midlfield and the experience and confidence gained from that is really important. With the big guns returning along with Brad Hill and hopefully Bennell, it sets us up to potentially have a dominant midfield in 2017 and beyond.

 

[dominguez]

So Dominguez put Neale 5th in a group of Midfielders, which triggered your tirade. I would say that Sandilands and Fyfe make the difference, and Mundy, if he can regain his high standards. Blakely and Neale are still young, but I will enjoy seeing how Neale goes with more quality around him. Neale deserves accolades for his ability to get the ball. No one else has ever done what he did. You carry on like every poorly performing team has a record breaking possession getter.

That's just the order that they came to mind mate.

My batting order in terms of importance would be -
Fyfe
Sandilands
Daylight
Neale
Mundy
Blakely

By round 5 I could easily see Blakely jump up to number 3 though.

 

[PurpleWizard]

He's a very good player, however people are talking about him as being a second wheel to Fyfe. Fyfe is truly elite, in the bracket that you expect premiership winning sides to have. He will be regarded as one of the greats when he retires.

So where is Neale relative to him? Comparing to my favourite midfield of all time, he's maybe a Nigel Lappin player - the fourth best midfielder out of five, but also possibly Luke Power. Both good things to be, but while Lappin was elite (in my view), Power was not.

Forget his numbers, rank him on how he plays - the way he sets up around the ball, where his first instinct is to go in traffic, where his handballs go, whether and where he chooses to kick over handballing, etc.

You're comparing our re-building midfield to one of the best midfields of all time? bit unfair. Other than maybe Sydney's Parker, JK, Hannerz combo and of course GWS and Bullies we stack up very well going into this season.

Neale is only 23 and was so great last year in a struggling team. What the **** you want out of him?

 

[Taylor]

Elite to champion data is top 10%.

 

[M_rash]

Long term the injuries last year to Fyfe, Mundy and Sandilands could be beneficial. It forced Neale and Blakely to carry the midlfield and the experience and confidence gained from that is really important. With the big guns returning along with Brad Hill and hopefully Bennell, it sets us up to potentially have a dominant midfield in 2017 and beyond.

Would you call it an elite midfield though?

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

On Neale - if he played the whole of the 2013 GF I think we would have had a much bigger chance of winning - just my opinion, however

 

[Unique Name]

Anyway back on topic. Gee the Saints board are working themselves into a frenzy. They've got insiders with the goss and all.

 

[Big Animal]

Anyway back on topic. Gee the Saints board are working themselves into a frenzy. They've got insiders with the goss and all.

which thread?

 

[Tallest]

Anyway back on topic. Gee the Saints board are working themselves into a frenzy. They've got insiders with the goss and all.

Will just make there inevitable disappointment all the more enjoyable for us when Fyfe re-signs

 

[Unique Name]

which thread?

The Free agency thread on the Saints board. The last 10 pages or so.

 

[Big Animal]

The Free agency thread on the Saints board. The last 10 pages or so.

ta