G A W N

[gPhonque]

Originally posted by MJ_RULES
No of course not windyhill, but why not concentrate on the good things instead of the bad....

So you mean we should sit around and jerk off over the few good things and forget about the bad things?

Are you a Collingwood supporter?


Although i only watched half of it on tv, that was one of the worst Essendon performances i've ever seen. We should never look that bad. We looked the way we were making other teams look only 2 years ago. And it wasn't pretty. We are not that bad a team.

There's a lot of players not putting in at the moment. I only get to see the occasional game and even i can tell.

 

[MJ_RULES]

Are you a Collingwood supporter?

Ouch.........



All im trying to say is focus on is the good not the bad...Essendon have been amazing over the last few years, but they cant win every week....
I dont see the sense in going over and over the down side of things, bagging players because they have played a few bad games.......

 

[Anton Grbac]

Originally posted by windyhill
I`ve missed four games since 1973 (not including interstate) i`ve seen the highest highs and the lowest lows. You call it being spoilt MJ, i call it being a realist. Tough times always show who the true supporters are as the rats desert the sinking ship.
Blokes like Wally, Topdon and M29 are true Essendon men,they will stick they are also entitled to have an opinion.

Thank you John,
Not sure how old MJ is exactly, but i'm willing to bet i've been around a bit longer than he/she has. I've missed roughly 30 games (Victorian) since 1978 as well as making the odd interstate trip. I was at Windy Hill the day after the 1990 Grand Final, and again last year when three men and a dog turned up.
If that's not a "true supporter", then i dunno what is, maybe MJ could explain it for me.....

Mantis,
Despite what you believe, i don't enjoy canning the side. Everyone needs a kick up the ar$e sometime, now's the time for a few of our blokes. Also, if having an opinion that differs from yours makes you a better supporter than me, tough sh*t. It may come across differently to you, but this thread is not about putting the players down, it's about identifying the areas of our game we need to improve. One of those areas that needs rectifying is the apparent attitude of a few senior players.

where's wally?

 

[MJ_RULES]

Not sure how old MJ is exactly, but i'm willing to bet i've been around a bit longer than he/she has. I've missed roughly 30 games (Victorian) since 1978 as well as making the odd interstate trip. I was at Windy Hill the day after the 1990 Grand Final, and again last year when three men and a dog turned up.

Hello Wally nice to meet you..... Im a 28 year old female and have been a Bombers fan all my life, a member since I was 5 years old, I wasn't meaning for you to take it personaly and if you have im sorry......... what I was meaning is alot of Essendon supporters in general are fickle...Some of the comments last night from so called Bomber supporters were shocking....

I was just listening to Bomber radio, and Wellman was on saying a similar thing to myself, he wants to forget about last night and move on, I believe Sheeds said a similar thing after the game Wellman said they are trying to stay positive, so why dont we as fans try and do the same?........

I dont live in Melbourne so I have missed more games than you, but im not gonna get into a debate with you over who has been to more games, or who loves the Bombers more, but I think my post had some valid points in it, and if you have chosen to take it personaly then so be it, thats up to you.........

 

[Anton Grbac]

Originally posted by MJ_RULES


Hello Wally nice to meet you..... Im a 28 year old female and have been a Bombers fan all my life, a member since I was 5 years old, I wasn't meaning for you to take it personaly and if you have im sorry......... what I was meaning is alot of Essendon supporters in general are fickle...Some of the comments last night from so called Bomber supporters were shocking....

I was just listening to Bomber radio, and Wellman was on saying a similar thing to myself, he wants to forget about last night and move on, I believe Sheeds said a similar thing after the game Wellman said they are trying to stay positive, so why dont we as fans try and do the same?........

I dont live in Melbourne so I have missed more games than you, but im not gonna get into a debate with you over who has been to more games, or who loves the Bombers more, but I think my post had some valid points in it, and if you have chosen to take it personaly then so be it, thats up to you.........

No offence taken.
Yes, you do have some valid points (something i forgot to add in my last post) re: Hird's return, Rioli, Bolton, but i reckon i do too. What i'm trying to say is, if you don't look at what's going wrong, you can't fix it.

Another thing, i really do appreciate what the club's given us over the years. Compared to a lot of other clubs, we've had a bl**dy good run.

where's wally?

 

[Stealth bomber]

I think we need to stop renewing contracts, right now, and worry about football.

Heffernan and Blumfield are both resigned, while showing arguably the worst form of anyone on the entire list. Rama renews his contract this week and goes missing (granted, he has had a good year).

Wouldn't we be better served doing this after the season is over?

I think an atmosphere has been created where you can win a premiership and then coast off of your reputation for years afterward, without having to work for anything. These players are being resigned for what they did in 2000, not 2002. There is no threat to their job security, and they're playing like it.

These are the guys who should be taking pay cuts, not our captain.

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Wally
There, i said it....i've suspected this since the Anzac Day debacle, have mentioned it in passing and been laughed down, but tonight's "performance" finally....to me at least......confirms the fact we have too many guys satisfied,content with their fat pay cheques, and living off the achievements of 2000. We were pathetic tonight, no passion, desire, or hunger. Losing when having a dip is ok, losing without having a dip is not, tonight ,we barely gave a yelp...unnaceptable for this group and the "talent" it posesses

Agree.

Originally posted by Wally
I think time is running out for this lot, and can't help think they'll be looked back on as the biggest heartbreakers in the history of the club.

Gotta pull you up here. You're way, way out of line. This group of "heartbreakers" have won 6 of the 8 finals they have contested since 1999. What do you want them to do? Win every final they play?

Were Carlton heratbreakers from 1993-1996, when they went 5-5 in finals, and won 1 flag in four years

Were the Kangaroos heartbreakers from winning 2 out of 8 premierships from 1994-2000, being eliminated in '93, '94, '95, '97, '98, and '00? Of course not. It's a 16 team comp. If you expect ANY team to win the flag more than half the time over a certain number of years, you are kidding yourself.

Essendon's finals record over the last thee years (75% 6-2) stacks up with the best. Always winning at least one final, and twice winning two or more. There will ALWAYS be three our four premiership contenders in any given season. Only one of them can win the flag.

If you make the finals, it will end in heartbreak for 7 of the 8 finalists. The probablity of winning the flag is far, far, far less than not winning. To win 1 premiership in 3 is more than acceptable. Sure it would be nice to win two, but then again is it realistic to expect us to go 7-1 in finals? I don't think so.

It's hard enough to have a 7/8ths record in home and away games. To have that record in finals, would be incredible, and not realistic. To finish 3rd, 1st and 2nd is a fantastic achievment, and we couldn't have asked for any more.

If the boys had gone 13-9 or 12-10 in 1999-2001, we could have been dissapointed with their efforts. But to win a minimum of 17 games every year, win a premiership, and go DEEP into the finals on the other two occasions is great stuff, and I'm not disappointed with their efforts at all. You could NOT have asked for anything more of them. If you get heartbroken whenever you don't win the flag, you're going to be a very unhappy person for most of your life. Sometimes, I think we forget how much enjoyment we got from 1999 and 2001, as we racked up so many great wins over those two years.

As for 2002.... well, that's a different story.

 

[The Spornstar]

Originally posted by topdon


That you did! Not that i ever disagreed.

I tell you what John, its painful sitting with me uncle and aunt at the footy now. They are so damn one eyed, well so am i, but at least i'm a realist. All they could say last night was that i was a bad supporter ... what? ... to dare to tell the truth about the current state of our club??

If we make the finals, we'll be doing nothing more than making up the numbers.

Don't give up hope just yet. Perhaps it is my fear of the black and red coming through, but I still don't think you're gone. You still have a chance at flag no.17 this year.

 

[Pornstar]

I haven't bothered to read this whole thread, so i don't know if somebody has already said this. If we had won the game, we would be 4th on the ladder and everybody would be saying what a threat in the finals we would be. But we lost and we are in 10th spot and everybody is saying how crapola we have become. It was a very important game.

Can i just say that we lost that game because we got outcoached by Bomber Thompson. It was a pretty simple game plan from them but very effective. Run forward at the ball ups to take advantage of King's dominance. Hold up Essendon when they get possession and man up all over the ground and then run them off their arses on the turnover. It was nearly half time before our coaching staff made the changes to free up some of our players and actually get some run happening in our favour, but the horse had already bolted by then. I said pre-season that if Thompson could get the cats into the finals this year then he deserved to be named All Australian coach.

 

[Anton Grbac]

Re: Re: G A W N

Originally posted by Dan26


Gotta pull you up here. You're way, way out of line. This group of "heartbreakers" have won 6 of the 8 finals they have contested since 1999. What do you want them to do? Win every final they play?

Were Carlton heratbreakers from 1993-1996, when they went 5-5 in finals, and won 1 flag in four years

Were the Kangaroos heartbreakers from winning 2 out of 8 premierships from 1994-2000, being eliminated in '93, '94, '95, '97, '98, and '00? Of course not. It's a 16 team comp. If you expect ANY team to win the flag more than half the time over a certain number of years, you are kidding yourself.

Essendon's finals record over the last thee years (75% 6-2) stacks up with the best. Always winning at least one final, and twice winning two or more. There will ALWAYS be three our four premiership contenders in any given season. Only one of them can win the flag.

If you make the finals, it will end in heartbreak for 7 of the 8 finalists. The probablity of winning the flag is far, far, far less than not winning. To win 1 premiership in 3 is more than acceptable. Sure it would be nice to win two, but then again is it realistic to expect us to go 7-1 in finals? I don't think so.

It's hard enough to have a 7/8ths record in home and away games. To have that record in finals, would be incredible, and not realistic. To finish 3rd, 1st and 2nd is a fantastic achievment, and we couldn't have asked for any more.

If the boys had gone 13-9 or 12-10 in 1999-2001, we could have been dissapointed with their efforts. But to win a minimum of 17 games every year, win a premiership, and go DEEP into the finals on the other two occasions is great stuff, and I'm not disappointed with their efforts at all. You could NOT have asked for anything more of them. If you get heartbroken whenever you don't win the flag, you're going to be a very unhappy person for most of your life. Sometimes, I think we forget how much enjoyment we got from 1999 and 2001, as we racked up so many great wins over those two years.

As for 2002.... well, that's a different story.

G'day Dan,

Fair enough, i'll take your word on the "numbers", i'm not gunna get into a longwinded argument over win/loss ratios and whatnot.

Like i said in one of my posts, i understand and really appreciate what the guys have given us over the last few years. Only an idiot would expect to win a flag every year. But, i really believe this group was/is good enough to have at least one more by the time they're finished. That's why 1999 will always stick in our throats, the one that got away if you like..........

where's wally?

 

[Dan26]

Re: Re: Re: G A W N

Originally posted by Wally
Like i said in one of my posts, i understand and really appreciate what the guys have given us over the last few years. Only an idiot would expect to win a flag every year. But, i really believe this group was/is good enough to have at least one more by the time they're finished. That's why 1999 will always stick in our throats, the one that got away if you like..........

I agree it was one that got away, but ther were 4 premiership threats that year. In the end three of them HAVE to end up disappointed. That's just the way footy works.

Is it not realistic to expect us to play one bad final out of 8 finals matches? I think it's realistic to expect one bad final out of 8. And, really, when you think about it, it's the only poor final we've played over that time period.

The knockout nature of the finals series makes it very, very hard to accumulate 7 finals wins out of 8, which is what we would have needed to do, to win 2 flags.

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by windyhill
I`ve missed four games since 1973 (not including interstate) i`ve seen the highest highs and the lowest lows. You call it being spoilt MJ, i call it being a realist. Tough times always show who the true supporters are as the rats desert the sinking ship.
Blokes like Wally, Topdon and M29 are true Essendon men,they will stick they are also entitled to have an opinion.

Hear bloody hear. Being a supporter does not mean you cannot criticise where criticism is warranted, that's for sycophants.

Dan: Adelaide managed 7 out of 8. Our list was supposedly good enough to do that but couldn't, and that's a disappointment anyway you look at it though I agree with Wally, we've had a good trot since the seventies.



P.S. anyone know where I can buy some canned sleep???

 

[BomberGal]

I don't know about gone...

Certainly, I very much doubt a premiership but as for finals, I still have a belief we can make it. Pity, the first year I get finals access, and it doesn't look like I'll be greatly needing it.

If we play like we did Saturday night, then we wouldn't even be a chance for the finals. However there was a ten minute patch in the third quarter which, if memory serves me correctly, was good, and if we play like that for the remainder of the season then we might actually get somewhere.

Come on boys :S

 

[Dan26]

Originally posted by Dave
Dan: Adelaide managed 7 out of 8.

Adelaide were aso fortunate to win their flags in very even years. Their 7 out of 8 does not mean they are a better "quality" team than Essendon who won 6 out of 8. Adelaide could have bene eliminated in '98 and had their destiny out of their hands. They had to wait and see if other reuslts were kind to them.

Finals are basically knockout and are not a true reflection of how good a team is. They never have been. They decide the premiership, but do not decide who the best team is. The fact we are still alive in 2002 and could hypothetically defeat Port or Brisbane in the Grand Final shows the unfairness of the system. We are nowhere near the quality of those two teams, but obviously we could still defeat them in an upset. Anything can happen over 2 hours. Over 44 hours, you get a better INDICATION of how good a team is.

Carlton finished runners-up in 1999, but were nowhere near as good as us, or Brisbane in that season. Melbourne were far inferior to Carlton in 2000. Upsets happen, and sometimes they happen in finals too. Just because it's a final, doesn't mean upsets are magically immune.

If we had our 1999-2000 team in 1997-1998, we probably would have won every final we played. Adelaide was okay, but not THAT good. They only had a percentage in the low 120's, both years.

Originally posted by Dave
Our list was supposedly good enough to do that but couldn't,

Our list was good enough to do that, but it doesn't always means that it will work out that way. With a bit of luck, we could have won 8 out of 9, but the nature of knockout finals, means that we won't always get a second chance if we lose. Looking at 1999-2001, we could have had anywhere between a 5-2 record, and a 8-1 record, depending on how we went in the "close" 1999 and 2001 preliminary finals.

We could have lost both, or won both. We ended up winning one and losing one, but with a bit of luck (or UN-luck) we could have been 0-2 or 2-0 in those two games. The team we had could have gone anywhere between 5-2 and 8-1. We happen to fall in the middle at 6-2, which is fair enough.

It is unrealistic to expect any team to win more than 75% of finals. What Adelaide did was beyond the norm, and not the type of thing you would normally expect.

 

[mantis]

I am not saying people who bag or don't bag the team after a loss are the better supporters, just saying that there are enough people ready to bag our club, without all our supporters doing it as well, nothing wrong with criticism, but when people go OTT that upsets me.

The Bombers have always had a fair share of supporters who when the team is going well, refer to everything as "we are great", "we played well", then soon as they have a loss or two, it is suddenly, "they are crap", "they need a kick up the bum", the "we" is forgotten until they start winning again.

If you ride high on the wins, then you have to cop the losses, as much as it hurts.

Just my opinion, but I can not bring myself to bag the team I love.

I just pity the Tigers this week, as I am sure Sheeds & the other coaches will rip into them which hopefully will spur them to a have a stirling game, plus we should have Fletcher & misiti back.

 

[skilts]

I said at the time that the machinations with Hardwick, Mercuri and Misiti, between seasons, attacked the soul of your club. I know the salary cap was the reason these things happened, but maybe, when it was seen that these types of players were considered dispensable, the other players thought, "Maybe I'm next."

There is an understandable tendency to look out for yourself if you feel threatened, and the team thing goes out the window. In such a competitive atmosphere, you only need to be two or three percent off-song and you're at the wrong end of the ladder.

Certainly haven't written off this season for the Bombers.

 

[NYMets]

I'm gutted but still there.
We've got the talent...need to show it.

 

[gozzo]

Getting our fullback, centreman and ruckman back will help too!

I was so disappointed at the way the blokes ran out the game against the Cats, but Geelong were the better team on the day, congrats to them.

Unfortunately (and I'm sure Dan will have the full stats on this) the numbers are all against an Essendon flag in 2002. Given our run home, the best we are likely to do is fifth. Super hard to win from there.

Maybe its time to look towards 2003 where possible, give some of the younger players a bit more run.