G Half Full

[Hawkk]

both clubs looking outside of melbourne to survive, both in merger situations in the 90's

You can hardly compare Hawthorn's relationship with Tasmania to the Kangaroos relationship with the GC.

You know as well as I do, the comparison is mute

 

[dave_27]

minus Melbourne supporters.

Did I hear correctly that Melbourne members had free admittance into what was a Hawthorn home game?

What fascination, Essendon supporters don't care about Hawthorn

Now your getting it. haha.

 

[Hawkk]

Did I hear correctly that Melbourne members had free admittance into what was a Hawthorn home game?

To quote the Melbourne president on 3AW pre game.

'It's not our home game, I don't care how many people turn up'

Great attitude that

 

[dave_27]

To quote the Melbourne president on 3AW pre game.

'It's not our home game, I don't care how many people turn up'

Great attitude that

Spoken like a typical dees fan, no wonder none of them come to the dome.

Though our away support in a few games over the last few years has been garbage aswell.

 

[doppleganger]

You can hardly compare Hawthorn's relationship with Tasmania to the Kangaroos relationship with the GC.

You know as well as I do, the comparison is mute

why???

hawks draw crowds of 10-15 to home games against interstate sides and lose money, so they sell these games to play them in tassie

same thing with the kangas and gold coast

 

[Hawkk]

Spoken like a typical dees fan, no wonder none of them come to the dome.

Though our away support in a few games over the last few years has been garbage aswell.

Having said that I doubt our game against the Kangaroos will draw over 15,000 at the Dome on Sunday Night.

The fact that its on a Sunday Night - which affects supporters going to the game with children, and its at the Telstra Dome should keep the crowd well down.

why???

hawks draw crowds of 10-15 to home games against interstate sides and lose money, so they sell these games to play them in tassie

same thing with the kangas and gold coast

Good bait but no cigar...

 

[Thats_Rubbish]

dont think u understand champ

Nothing like a bit of condescending language in an attempt to reassert yourself into a discussion thats not going to plan CHAMP.

As I said - the competition was a basket case and certain clubs that played in the VFL in the 1800's set themselves up (as you would expect) in a competition heavily weighted in their favour. There was no control of where players went (much like the pathetic excuse for a soccer league known as the EPL) so where did the good players go? the strong teams gee what a surprise. But thats OK, you continue to live off the old sentimental sob story of how tough things were for the Pies back then and while we're on the topic of losers and mediocrity when was the last time the pies won the spoon or the premiership? hmmmm

Just a reminder for those that have lost track of what this thread is about:
An opportunity was seen by a Essendon fan to take a potshot at Hawthorn (and maybe Melbourne???) for a poor crowd after his superior club won their second game in a row in front of a massive 32000. He took the shot despite the crowd being small due to the poor support of another club but who cares about that because he would know better. Then others of the same beliefs, and some from a far away struggling poor suburb (which is looked down on by others) who still think premierships from the middle of last century are relevant to 2007 came running forth to participate in the potting of the shot and help make themselves feel good. The main thing is all Essendon and Collingwood supporters feel warm and fuzzy about each other because they get big crowds to Anzac Day. Lets all have a group hug and thank our lucky stars for these two great clubs.

 

[Thats_Rubbish]

Are you trying to compare 32k of Essendon supporters attending a game on Easter Sunday to a game between 2 MCG tenants on a PUBLIC holiday?

Considering its been said quite a few times in this thread already - Hawthorn fans easily outnumbered Melbourne fans 2-1 out of 45,000 - yes I am comparing the crowd on Easter sunday. Firstly, there werent 32k dons fans - be fair and give at least 2k to the dockers and thats being more than conservative. Secondly, last i checked there are plenty of people in our society that are not influenced by Easter Sunday so that is NO more an excuse for crowd numbers than Easter Monday.

Do the maths (simple maths really) and you will see there is more than enough good reason to point out that this thread was started by a Essendon fan having a pot shot at crowd numbers without checking his own backyard first. There would be very little argument if the Bombers had got a better crowd themselves. Simple.

 

[Thats_Rubbish]

How convenient.

How intelligent.
I was asked the question and I answered it. Others would ignore it. That crowd was a disgrace, period.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Hence the 50,000 against the Bulldogs on Easter Monday 2 years ago when the Magpies unveiled their new social club...

Yes - That was against the Western Bulldogs, one of the lowest supporter bases in Victoria. Happen to remember what maximum capacity was for the MCG at that time? It was about 70,000...

Against Essendon, there probably would have been an extra 20,000 people there, yes.

Attendances for Anzac Day Game since it's inception:

1995 - 94,825
1996 - 87,549
1997 - 83,271
1998 - 81,542
1999 - 73,118
2000 - 88,390
2001 - 83,905
2002 - 84,894
2003 - 62,589
2004 - 57,294
2005 - 70,033
2006 - 91,234

Average crowd size - 79,887

Attendances for the rematch game each years since 1995:

1995 - 77,448
1996 - 51,057
1997 - 50,944
1998 - 64,480
1999 - 56,129
2000 - 66,608
2001 - 71,518
2002 - 69,613
2003 - 68,381
2004 - 52,983
2005 - 52,507
2006 - 62,940

Average crowd size - 62,051

Now, obviously, the average crowd in the rematch is smaller, for reasons already explained, but I don't think you'll find any teams who would consistently draw over 60,000 to a late season night-game fixture.

The fact is, playing on ANZAC Day would increase crowd size for any two teams, but the crowd still wouldn't be as big for most sides as it is for Collingwood-Essendon. Collingwood-Carlton or Carlton-Essendon would be the only other games that would draw that well at the G.

 

[MarkT]

To quote the Melbourne president on 3AW pre game.

'It's not our home game, I don't care how many people turn up'

Great attitude that

Did he say that and was he serious?

If so it is pretty poor. It is also pretty ignorant. The reason clubs get schedule and fixture advantages is numbers. Collingwood etc draw crowds to the G regardless of whose home game it is which is why teams want to play them.

 

[Thats_Rubbish]

both clubs looking outside of melbourne to survive, both in merger situations in the 90's

dons, pies, blues are the oppo, ie only had small periods of their history where they haven't been in finals and GF's

Yep typical superiority complex mentality - spin spin spin. Essendon aside, both Pies and Blues have (or are) been in financial ruins. Convenient that you failed to mention that when you take shots at other clubs 'surviving'. You obviously havent taken note of Hawthorn's current position. You might be surprised. But you just take note of what you want - life is much more pleasant that way

 

[Thats_Rubbish]

The fact is, playing on ANZAC Day would increase crowd size for any two teams, but the crowd still wouldn't be as big for most sides as it is for Collingwood-Essendon. Collingwood-Carlton or Carlton-Essendon would be the only other games that would draw that well at the G.

You really are having a different conversation than most everyone else here. This is not about how big a crowd the 'special' clubs get to the MCG on ANZAC day! its about people having pot shots at low crowd numbers on Monday. But as long as you feel fuzzy thats cool.

 

[doppleganger]

As I said - the competition was a basket case and certain clubs that played in the VFL in the 1800's set themselves up (as you would expect) in a competition heavily weighted in their favour. There was no control of where players went (much like the pathetic excuse for a soccer league known as the EPL) so where did the good players go? the strong teams gee what a surprise. But thats OK, you continue to live off the old sentimental sob story of how tough things were for the Pies back then and while we're on the topic of losers and mediocrity when was the last time the pies won the spoon or the premiership? hmmmm

competition wasn't a basket case, clubs like hawthorn and north entered and couldn't sort themselves out

footscray, richmond all went ok and weren't rabble for 40 years like the hawks

was nothing like the EPL, collingwood payed all its players the same amount no matter how good they were, until the 60's 70's.......no surprise that is when the club stopped winning flags!

all their early success was on the back of local boys playing for their suburb

but dont even know what ur on about really, the fact is that being successful for the majority of their history has enabled coll, carl, ess to have massive supporter bases

hawks miles behind as they have been rubbish except for a 20yr golden period, that isn't enough

 

[doppleganger]

Yep typical superiority complex mentality - spin spin spin. Essendon aside, both Pies and Blues have (or are) been in financial ruins. Convenient that you failed to mention that when you take shots at other clubs 'surviving'. You obviously havent taken note of Hawthorn's current position. You might be surprised. But you just take note of what you want - life is much more pleasant that way

??

not sure when the pies have had to sell home games interstate or seeked out a merger with another club

north and the hawks were involved in merger discussions in the 90's and both sell home games interstate in the 00's as they lose money when nobody goes to watch them in melbourne

 

[The Kipster]

Melbourne supporters generally sit on the camera side of the MCG so you rarely see them on TV. Hawthorn supporters are just bloody useless.

Hey knob rock, us so-called useless bastards have beaten you over recent times, so shut the hell up...boogoo lover...

 

[The Kipster]

It is about exposure and the AFL...they have provided us with nothing but jack **** in recent times, so the numbers add up....Pies = Dream Draw, Bummers = Umpires Best Mates.....personally I can't wait for the AFL to swallow pride and give clubs an even chance....****in ********s...

 

[Thats_Rubbish]

competition wasn't a basket case, clubs like hawthorn and north entered and couldn't sort themselves out

footscray, richmond all went ok and weren't rabble for 40 years like the hawks

was nothing like the EPL, collingwood payed all its players the same amount no matter how good they were, until the 60's 70's.......no surprise that is when the club stopped winning flags!

all their early success was on the back of local boys playing for their suburb

but dont even know what ur on about really, the fact is that being successful for the majority of their history has enabled coll, carl, ess to have massive supporter bases

hawks miles behind as they have been rubbish except for a 20yr golden period, that isn't enough

Again your response is misleading and based on some fabled Collingwood history lesson. As I said before, players went where the current best team was and there was no regulation of this. By the way, the Bulldogs were far from fine They finally won a GF in 1954 - and never since. Richmond joined in the early 1900's so comparing them to HFC and NMFC is useless.

Further to all that though, like others on here you make a comment about large numbers of followers and again I ask SO WHAT? This certainly hasnt contributed to either Collingwood, Carlton or Essendon being more successful than Hawthorn since 1961. Is 46 years of history showing that crowd numbers dont guarantee success enough? clearly yes.

 

[Hawkk]

Your persisting with the bait so I’ll give you a bite;

??

not sure when the pies have had to sell home games interstate or seeked out a merger with another club

Collingwood were in massive financial trouble in the 1980’s – in fact at one stage the only 3 clubs that weren’t techniqually bankrupt were Hawthorn, Essendon and Carlton…the 3 pillars of the VFL

Given all the under the table dealings during the 1980’s make no mistake, Collingwood were involved in merger dealings.

Initially the only reason why the Hawthorn-Melbourne merger was known to the public was because it was leaked to the media by an administrator from one of the boards – the source to this date is unknown, but it wasn’t the only merger being discussed. I know for a fact that the Melbourne FC has several discussions with numerous other VFL clubs dating back to the mid 1980’s – most notably Fitzroy, North Melbourne and Richmond (which got to a stage of a jumper creation)

north and the hawks were involved in merger discussions in the 90's and both sell home games interstate in the 00's as they lose money when nobody goes to watch them in melbourne

Which explains why Hawthorn was in the top 4 for crowd and memberships throughout the late 1990’s/early 2000’s despite playing the odd game in Tasmania? Perhaps I've over rated you as a troll because you're picking the wrong angles...

I’ve been through this hundreds of times and don’t want to get involved again, but Hawthorn’s sponsorship with Tasmania just like its relocation to Waverley has everything to do positioning and gaining revenue streams to compete with elite clubs rather then a quick money grab.

End of discussion.

 

[Thats_Rubbish]

??

not sure when the pies have had to sell home games interstate or seeked out a merger with another club

north and the hawks were involved in merger discussions in the 90's and both sell home games interstate in the 00's as they lose money when nobody goes to watch them in melbourne

you're losing ground. Pies were an absolute rabble financially in the late 90's - so much for having large numbers of followers. Without the chEddy deal and the saturation coverage which brings with it $$$ soon after they may still be in that position so again its rich to be talking about clubs struggling etc etc. Short memories. Hawks & Demons in 1996 was not merger talks, they are ackowledged as take over talks which were unanimously defeated and a few senior Hawks men were forced out. There was only one club that was pro-merger - not HFC. I am wondering though, what any of that has to do with this thread?

 

[doppleganger]

Again your response is misleading and based on some fabled Collingwood history lesson. As I said before, players went where the current best team was and there was no regulation of this. By the way, the Bulldogs were far from fine They finally won a GF in 1954 - and never since. Richmond joined in the early 1900's so comparing them to HFC and NMFC is useless.

not really, players went and played for their local team

or if not local they were invited down to train and try out, collingwood never went and bought any players until the 60's - 70's, which caused much angst

they were simply a better run club in the early days

Further to all that though, like others on here you make a comment about large numbers of followers and again I ask SO WHAT? This certainly hasnt contributed to either Collingwood, Carlton or Essendon being more successful than Hawthorn since 1961. Is 46 years of history showing that crowd numbers dont guarantee success enough? clearly yes.

clearly sustained success brings popularity, hence the three most successful clubs are the most popular....hence hawthorn are not that popular as only a quarter of their history has been successful

being popular doesn't make u successful tho

 

[doppleganger]

I’ve been through this hundreds of times and don’t want to get involved again, but Hawthorn’s sponsorship with Tasmania just like its relocation to Waverley has everything to do positioning and gaining revenue streams to compete with elite clubs rather then a quick money grab.

End of discussion.

isn't that the same as the kangas??

aren't the kangas positioning themselves on the gold coast to generate new long term revenue streams???

both clubs struggle to make ends meet in melbourne, so they look interstate so they can prosper

struggle to see how the kangas doing a deal with the gold coast to hopefully generate new supporters and revenue streams whilst holding on to their traditional melbourne base is different to hawthorn doing the same in tassie??

 

[doppleganger]

you're losing ground. Pies were an absolute rabble financially in the late 90's - so much for having large numbers of followers. Without the chEddy deal and the saturation coverage which brings with it $$$ soon after they may still be in that position so again its rich to be talking about clubs struggling etc etc. Short memories. Hawks & Demons in 1996 was not merger talks, they are ackowledged as take over talks which were unanimously defeated and a few senior Hawks men were forced out. There was only one club that was pro-merger - not HFC. I am wondering though, what any of that has to do with this thread?

all clubs can be poorly run, that was collingwoods problem, not a lack of support

dont even know what the thread is about, im just replying to posts, mentioning why the pies and dons get bigger crowds than smaller clubs like hawthorn

 

[Thats_Rubbish]

or if not local they were invited down to train and try out, collingwood never went and bought any players until the 60's - 70's, which caused much angst

they were simply a better run club in the early days



clearly sustained success brings popularity, hence the three most successful clubs are the most popular....hence hawthorn are not that popular as only a quarter of their history has been successful

being popular doesn't make u successful tho

Dopple I think we are not actually that far apart on our views. You're just wrong. No only kidding I did never say they bought players - just that players went to where the better teams were. I agree totally that popularity doesnt simply = success. Of course it doesnt. That has been my view throughout this thread. The fact is that some numbnuts started this thread by taking a potshot that wasnt warranted which lead to side issues which have distracted me.......from work.

BTW I hope the Pies win on Anzac Day

 

[GoYouBlues]

being popular doesn't make u successful tho

Spot on. Look at Collingwood - 1 premiership in 49 years.