Galvanising a list

[selwoodsbandage]

We need a spiritual unity amongst the group. Maybe a good bonding session on kokoda or some mountain. A teepee and a peace pipe might be too much.

Don't underestimate the power of "the spirit" back in the glory days. It galvanised the group.

 

[romeohwho]

cant galvanise the list when there is no clear game plan, structures or recruiting

everything is just scattergun

need to build a core up for a few years with a gameplan and structure that can win a flag, then recruit players for specific roles

at the moment its just land of the giants, a crappy zone and bomb it long to hawkins

until the club gets back to basics and admits this list cant win a flag nothing will change

I would have thought the last 2 years has shown us that a list doesn't have to be brilliant to win the flag. Need a half dozen really good players and a demanding game plan that everyone else buys in to. It's built for short term success but it can win a flag. I don't expect doggies or tigers to win again, but they don't need to, do they.

 

[Spearman]

Links?

there are several if you have a preferable format, this is top of google list:
https://player.fm/series/talking-footy-1420419

 

[Kerim]

I keep reading how this team is low on talent. But they took more contested marks than Crows, and kept Crows to a very miserable score, while scoring more than 100 themselves.
Just because we have not seen them much, and have not heard of their names, it seems unjustified to question their talent.
I still go back to Richo on 360 (Saints Coach) just before finals, who said they were the best team they'd played this season.
Talent is not lacking. Recognition maybe is.

Individually the tigers are low on talent. But they play for each other and to a system what is a step ahead of the other teams at the moment. As you say, richo said they were the best 'team'. You are talking about talent. Two thirds of their players can't magically turn into stars in the space of a year

 

[Vdubs]

Individually the tigers are low on talent. But they play for each other and to a system what is a step ahead of the other teams at the moment. As you say, richo said they were the best 'team'. You are talking about talent. Two thirds of their players can't magically turn into stars in the space of a year

Sure.
They have been drafting well, and as far as talent goes, the proof is in the pudding. No pudding was made with choice fruit alone. It's always been about the best team, even in 07. Those players we had were not supertalents in 06. Some were- GAJ, SJ, Chappy, Bartel, Ottens, but many evolved- Coreys, Scarlett, Ling, Kelly? Our boys proved to be perfectly complementary to each other and did become immortals. Not saying at all this Tigers team will do that, but questioning their individual talent is also unnecessary after they've just beaten the favourites by 48 points.

 

[allrighty]

I would have thought the last 2 years has shown us that a list doesn't have to be brilliant to win the flag. Need a half dozen really good players and a demanding game plan that everyone else buys in to. It's built for short term success but it can win a flag. I don't expect doggies or tigers to win again, but they don't need to, do they.

I was thinking exactly this earlier today. The game has changed significantly, whether it's the bye or the rules, or the umpires or the whole thing. Doggies won on heart last year, and earlier this year we flogged the Crows and did the Tiges. So what has changed that sees the last two flags go to teams that I would not call outstanding? That is the challenge for us and the other teams, work that out and we are there again.

 

[donbooger]

I would rather them do something about where AFL is heading. Bulldogs and Richmond tackled like animals and beat superior skilled sides and broke them with boring frenetic game styles.

I would rather it not come to finals time and the team with most tackles wins. Change some rules AFL, your good at that.

Regarding how we go about doing the same. Thats the problem, nobody has any idea how to pull a Richmond and in 2016 a bulldogs, not even the Dogs know as they are now a rubbish team again.

 

[Partridge]

I keep reading how this team is low on talent. But they took more contested marks than Crows, and kept Crows to a very miserable score, while scoring more than 100 themselves.
Just because we have not seen them much, and have not heard of their names, it seems unjustified to question their talent.
I still go back to Richo on 360 (Saints Coach) just before finals, who said they were the best team they'd played this season.
Talent is not lacking. Recognition maybe is.

It definitely isn't. Look at the backline. Everyone talks about Rance, but the improvement of Grimes and Astbury this year has been huge. In the last fortnight, Grimes has wiped the floor with first Toby Greene and then Eddy Betts. Astbury at the same time nullified Patton then Walker. Both players still don't get mentioned that much but they have become vital components.

 

[kickazz]

I would rather them do something about where AFL is heading. Bulldogs and Richmond tackled like animals and beat superior skilled sides and broke them with boring frenetic game styles.

I would rather it not come to finals time and the team with most tackles wins. Change some rules AFL, your good at that.

Regarding how we go about doing the same. Thats the problem, nobody has any idea how to pull a Richmond and in 2016 a bulldogs, not even the Dogs know as they are now a rubbish team again.

Too true.

Even our game against the Bulldogs this year was won of the back of frenetic tackling.

You are almost better off hanging back and not being first to the ball these days

 

[Vdubs]

Too true.

Even our game against the Bulldogs this year was won of the back of frenetic tackling.

You are almost better off hanging back and not being first to the ball these days

To me the key is to be hungry enough to get the ball, to attack if you haven't got it, and to be able to compensate if there is an error. Tigers did all 3. To be always second to the ball is not going to work.

 

[Hinkley29]

Let’s not underestimate the element of good fortune in the Tigers win. Yes, they played great this season, yes they are a great story but.....

They played 3 home finals, with massive crowd support from a rabid fan base that hadn’t experienced anything like success in over 30 years, and by rights they had earned 1 home game out of those 3. If you believe that Richmond would have won the flag if they had to play the first final at KP and the GF at Adelaide Oval then I have a really nice bridge to sell you.

Plus they had a ridiculously good run with injuries which meant that they had great continuity in their team.

My point is that good fortune has played a massive role in their flag, as it does for most premiers. This element of fortune is the main reason why so few premiers repeat their success the following year.

 

[feelinfeline]

The majority of the list in 2007 had been playing together for at least 5 seasons. We are trying to import players in on a yearly basis and just expect things to click based on perceived talent. We saw even in 2008 and 2010 that the most talented list can be undone if the structures can be exploited - Clarko's cluster and Malthouse's phone booth both undid us when it mattered. Galvanizing a list is 50%, using that list in a strategically successful way is the other 50%.

Prestia, Caddy and Nankervis?

 

[feelinfeline]

And Blake Caracella...thats hilarious. The Tigers faithful hated Caracella last season. Had to get rid of him. He was useless. Look at them now.

Interesting, seeing that he joined them in September 2016. They obviously didn't like his post-season work.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Interesting, seeing that he joined them in September 2016. They obviously didn't like his post-season work.

My bad. I meant when he left Geelong he wasn't all that popular by quite a few here.

If Caracella is the forward coach then it's lucky he's leaving otherwise I'd demand his head for the constant bombing inside 50. You just can't do it everytime and yet we do.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/how-to-improve-in-2017.1146592/page-4#post-46921750

at least Caracella is gone. That is something.
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...-new-poll-added.1142401/page-56#post-46948525

Think Caracalla has been the forward coach if so thanks Blake and good luck at the Tigers,I won't mind seeing a change of forward coach.
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...la-departure-confirmed.1145416/#post-46715276

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Prestia, Caddy and Nankervis?

Good players. But not core players. The captain and the Brownlow medallist are Tiger through and through. As well as the young crop coming up.

 

[feelinfeline]

My bad. I meant when he left Geelong he wasn't all that popular by quite a few here.

If Caracella is the forward coach then it's lucky he's leaving otherwise I'd demand his head for the constant bombing inside 50. You just can't do it everytime and yet we do.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/how-to-improve-in-2017.1146592/page-4#post-46921750

at least Caracella is gone. That is something.
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...-new-poll-added.1142401/page-56#post-46948525

Think Caracalla has been the forward coach if so thanks Blake and good luck at the Tigers,I won't mind seeing a change of forward coach.
https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...la-departure-confirmed.1145416/#post-46715276

No worries. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Partridge]

Let’s not underestimate the element of good fortune in the Tigers win. Yes, they played great this season, yes they are a great story but.....

They played 3 home finals, with massive crowd support from a rabid fan base that hadn’t experienced anything like success in over 30 years, and by rights they had earned 1 home game out of those 3. If you believe that Richmond would have won the flag if they had to play the first final at KP and the GF at Adelaide Oval then I have a really nice bridge to sell you.

I could give that more credence if their winning margins hadn't been so comprehensive.

Would Adelaide and Geelong be 2-3 goals more competitive at home? Perhaps. 8-9 goals more competitive? Doubt it.

 

[Hinkley29]

I could give that more credence if their winning margins hadn't been so comprehensive.

Would Adelaide and Geelong be 2-3 goals more competitive at home? Perhaps. 8-9 goals more competitive? Doubt it.

Geelong were level with Richmond until late in the 3rd qtr, and were on top in general play at that stage. No doubt Richmond’s crowd helped them massively at that stage. Richmond kicked a bunch of goals in garbage time once the game was decided.

In the GF, Adelaide had chances to kick away early in the 2nd qtr and had momentum. It would have been much harder to turn that game around at the Adelaide Oval, again the Tigers home ground advantage helped them massively at that stage of the game.

Ifs and buts yes, but my point is they had a lot of (undeserved) advantages. They had good fortune smile on them more than most flag winners.

 

[Mr Blicavs]

We've all heard the stories, after losing to North and going 2-3 in 2007 a few home truths were levelled at the playing group by members of the playing group. It lead to the honesty sessions, which the players in that season's Flag winning side (and in the Premierships that followed) identified as being a significant reason for the club's turnaround and sustained success.

When we look at the clubs that played in this year's GF we see two squads that were out there playing for their mates. The Crows were galvanised by the death of their coach. A once-off, freak event.

Hardwick has galvanised his list with these "Hardship, Highlight, Hero" sessions. It happens weekly. There's a really good article on it if you haven't seen it already. It's not a one off event, it's a regular part of their routine along with training skills, endurance etc.. and is essentially comradery training.

We've been fortunate enough to witness a team that played _for_ each other. They were consistently dominant. Now we have a team that, on their day, appear to be able to beat anyone but bring that intensity haphazardly. And I wonder if that's an indicator of a lack of unity. Those slow starts and poor games strike me as players turning up for work as opposed to players going out there to win with their mates and only when enough of them get emotionally invested in the game (through their opponent antagonising them) do they "turn it on".

I think we need a list "galvanising" session. As per the Tigers. We should just use their model for want of a better system, it works. It would be incredibly humbling for Chris to stand in front of the group and tell them we're going to do what the Tigers did, and then share a personal hardship. Then Joel. And the tone is set. And, hopefully, we build the sort of comradery that sees 30+ of the playing list show up to a rookie's birthday party out in country Victoria (happened for the Tigers) and bring that intensity every game from the first bounce.. because you owe as much to your mates that are out there with you.

This list has nowhere near the strength of character that Richmond have
They are committed from the first player in their squad, all the way down to the to the last player selected in the VFL
We are committed from about 1-10 ........

 

[Benny78]

Sack Scott and bring in Caracella or Dew as the head coach and watch s**t get done

While we need a better coach than Scott I'd tip either of those no names to do worse and not even get us into finals. What we need is either Bomber, Hinkley, Roos. Coaches like Ratten, Longmire, Eade etc would also be a gamble.