Society/Culture Gambling in our country...

[Chief]

People wouldn't be addicted to pokies if they were not designed by science to be addictive. To deny this simple truth you're quoting witch doctors.

They?

People or the pokies?

And even if pokies are designed like that, it doesn't mean the brain doesn't change through prolonged use.

 

[Number37]

People wouldn't be addicted to pokies if they were not designed by science to be addictive. To deny this simple truth you're quoting witch doctors.

I never wrote about the design of pokies, you just threw in that strawman so that you could make your conclusion.
Simply because of the way your brain works EVERYONE is susceptible to their sub conscious being manipulated.
Brain imaging studies have shown clear changes in the brain of addicts. Most of the early studies focused on drug addiction but have been applied to other forms of addiction.
Calling it the work of witch doctors is disingenuous.

 

[TheKanga]

Please describe to me how people control/overcome their addictions?

The first step in controlling/overcoming an addiction is making a rational choice.

Why not make this rational choice to begin with and not after the fact???

In my personal experiences, once i had realised/accepted that i had a problem (that took a while)
I had in my head the rational decisions and actions i had to do to improve things and get better.
I would even be having a deep an meaningful discussion about all of this and how bad it is but then straight after go and gamble.
I still have urges when i get certain triggers and probably will for my whole life so i gotta try to stay ahead of them...


I think gambling addiction is just as hard to quit as smoking, drugs & alcohol can be.

EDIT



Put this in here so i don't triple post.

 

[TheKanga]

I would describe responsible gambling in 2 ways.
1. What you can afford.
2. Doesn't have negative impacts your life.

That would be ideal and credit to anyone who punts like that.
Probably a reason why people on average to poor incomes shouldn't gamble.
They really can't afford to lose anything....that's when the chasing begins.

 

[Slax]

Stuff pokies and maximum bets, that is not what concerns me the most, it is the constant bombardment of gambling advertising we see today. Gambling advertising needs to be treated like smoking advertising and banned. Whilst I don't have facts, I do know that smoking related deaths is massively over inflated in this country to hide other causes like diesel fumes, but today more lives are destroyed by gambling than are by smoking yet we are doing nothing to stop this problem.

 

[GreyCrow]

Stuff pokies and maximum bets, that is not what concerns me the most, it is the constant bombardment of gambling advertising we see today. Gambling advertising needs to be treated like smoking advertising and banned. Whilst I don't have facts, I do know that smoking related deaths is massively over inflated in this country to hide other causes like diesel fumes, but today more lives are destroyed by gambling than are by smoking yet we are doing nothing to stop this problem.

A lot of people will use the same excuses that were made for tobacco advertising.

''sports will suffer''
'' the junior clubs will disappear''
''let people spend their money however they want''

Bugger them. Just as tobacco crept into our brains as kids so does gambling. This plus the ability to download an app without age checks (and don't get me started on those) has made it easier for the kids and harder for the parents to control.

 

[Slax]

A lot of people will use the same excuses that were made for tobacco advertising.

''sports will suffer''
'' the junior clubs will disappear''
''let people spend their money however they want''

Bugger them. Just as tobacco crept into our brains as kids so does gambling. This plus the ability to download an app without age checks (and don't get me started on those) has made it easier for the kids and harder for the parents to control.

Exactly. The gambling companies are deliberately advertising at a market where they are exposing kids to it and normalising it, the way they are doing it for mine is actually worse than tobacco.

If sport suffers then so be it. It will be the AFL and NRL who feel it and they have the money to get away with it. We as a country need to grow some balls and be a leader on this issue, but most of our politicians are followers and bad ones at that.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

Exactly. The gambling companies are deliberately advertising at a market where they are exposing kids to it and normalising it, the way they are doing it for mine is actually worse than tobacco.

If sport suffers then so be it. It will be the AFL and NRL who feel it and they have the money to get away with it. We as a country need to grow some balls and be a leader on this issue, but most of our politicians are followers and bad ones at that.

Maybe you aren't old enough to recall the way smoking was made to be the very edge of "cool". There is more science in the way its done these days, but morally much the same in my view. And the same can be said of alcohol.

 

[Chief]

Maybe you aren't old enough to recall the way smoking was made to be the very edge of "cool". There is more science in the way its done these days, but morally much the same in my view. And the same can be said of alcohol.

And after tobacco ads were banned, the different strategies they used to keep the public aware of their brands.

Sending promotional guys and girls into nightclubs giving out stuff decorated in the COLOURS of their packaging. Not mentioning the brand, but trying to just maintain the 'cool' factor of that combination of those colours represented in those proportions.

 

[Slax]

Maybe you aren't old enough to recall the way smoking was made to be the very edge of "cool". There is more science in the way its done these days, but morally much the same in my view. And the same can be said of alcohol.

I'm familiar with the way smoking used to be advertised, I'm aware of the demonisation of passive smoking as a massive evil to deflect from other pollution.

I knew the clerk of the courts who worked on the original passive smoking law suit in the Victorian supreme court. This case was made by a bus driver against the public transport Victoria. The case was brought on the grounds that a combination of diesel fumes and passive cigarette smoking caused his lung cancer, the evidence presented and one expert scientist of the day were saying that the main contributing factor was diesel fumes. As the driver had never smoked they couldn't say it was from his own smoking. The Victorian government legal team agreed to settle out of court with the driver provided he made the claim solely against passive smoking. The reason for this is it meant that government could automatically avoid any future compensation to any bus driver who had smoked, which automatically knocked out 85% of bus drivers and depot workers. The decision made was never made on science it was made on money, that's why it was settled out of court.

Gambling advertising and not banning it is about the same thing now, its about keeping the money rolling rather than cutting that in flow. This despite the facts that the cost to the economy is far greater with keeping the advertising.

 

[Hank Scorpion]

Baby steps:

Sports betting ads could be banned on public transport and near schools under a proposal by the Victorian Government.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-21/victorian-government-considers-sports-betting-ads-ban/7770120

 

[Sydney Bloods]

People wouldn't be addicted to pokies if they were not designed by science to be addictive. To deny this simple truth you're quoting witch doctors.

you can't design a poker machine that's not addictive. The entire premise of all gambling feeds off the reward centers of the brain. winning releases an endorphin rush, its this endorphin rush that gets people hooked, just like all forms of gambling, the nearest form of addiction to gambling is amphetamine addiction.

you can make poker machines MORE addictive using various auditory and visual cues which the brain associates with the "reward" a cash induced endorphin rush making the association between playing a poker machine and "fun" stronger.

But by their nature they will always cause addiction, Make no mistake it doesn't matter if you take away all the bells and whistles and create the most boring poker machine in the world that punches people in face every time they don't win. as long as they can "win" that is receive a positive reward for completing an action then it will always be addictive. such a machine will certainly be less addictive, but none the less it will still be addictive.

the problem people have is how they miss understand how gambling addiction works, most people only associate gambling addicts with the pathological gambler, But in truth such people have long gone past the actual addictive period and they no longer get any joy from playing the machine, the endorphin rush never comes, for some even when they win, the endorphin rush never comes. But by the time this occurs you already associate the product with that high and it is only at this point that most people can actually realise they are addicted. Because they find themselves wanting to complete an activity which no longer brings them any joy and usually is causing them a *ton of financial problems.

the pathological gambling should be viewed as a conditioned response rather then traditional addiction. On top of this the lack of "fun" from playing (which at this point was likely the only form of fun the person has) combined with the loss of funds and the stress these things cause leads to depression, which makes the urge to gamble worse, we all want to be happy, endorphin's make you feel really good and as even though the endorphin rush wont come anymore the link between playing the machine and that rush still remains and so the response to all the negative thing going on in their lives is to play. the worse it gets the more they play until finally they realise this is problem.

but the truth is, if you think about playing the pokies throughout the week, or you go out to play the pokies, or you get an urge to go over and play the pokies when you walk into the RSL even if you didn't intend to play them, THAT is when your addicted in terms of traditional addiction.

 

[Chief]

It's the variable reward model. Simple idea but with almost endlessly complex application.

We can use it on ourselves.

Can't get to work on time? Give yourself a dice roll every time you do, with a reward for about three weeks of unbroken success.

Not quite that simple but you can break or form habits with continued attempts.


Spend millions of bucks on designing gambling machines and you can make addicts and get rich.

 

[GreyCrow]

 

[Long Live HFC]

People wouldn't be addicted to pokies if they were not designed by science to be addictive. To deny this simple truth you're quoting witch doctors.

hahahhaha. explain to us oh simple one, how you would design non-addictive gambling

this from the same idiot that reckons marijuana can't be and isn't addictive

 

[Chief]

hahahhaha. explain to us oh simple one, how you would design non-addictive gambling

this from the same idiot that reckons marijuana can't be and isn't addictive

Keep it civil please.


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[Chief]

http://www.smh.com.au/business/bookies-flout-australian-ban-on-inplay-betting-20160531-gp7wf2.html - Went looking for in-play betting info.

It is banned in Australia but only online. Bookies getting around this by having click-to-call options on their apps. Phone call is made over the web but the government is calling this against the intent of the law.

In-play betting is one of the biggest ways problem gamblers are hooked. As the odds vary according to the score line, the problem gambler puts on more bets.

 

[kickazz]

http://www.smh.com.au/business/bookies-flout-australian-ban-on-inplay-betting-20160531-gp7wf2.html - Went looking for in-play betting info.

It is banned in Australia but only online. Bookies getting around this by having click-to-call options on their apps. Phone call is made over the web but the government is calling this against the intent of the law.

In-play betting is one of the biggest ways problem gamblers are hooked. As the odds vary according to the score line, the problem gambler puts on more bets.

"Cashing out" doesn't even require the call, and it is essentially a (very bad value for the punter) form of in play betting.

In play betting should still be allowed, IMO. Plenty of people can use it without addiction.

Hourly, daily, weekly limits etc is where the attention needs to be focused. The online bookies all offer this in some form but some legal backing would help. Also need to find out how to define problem gambler; arbitrary dollar figure limits across the board is not the answer

 

[Sinjin Smith]

People also have the choice to get rid of them. They were a non entity 25-30 years ago until state governments saw a cash cow and their expansion has only brought misery. No need to have them, we didn't have them before and we did just fine.

That was just in Vic wasn't it?? I remember ages ago we were up at Echuca and there were bus ferry services to Moama for people that wanted to hit the pokies.

 

[Sinjin Smith]

Please describe to me how people control/overcome their addictions?

The first step in controlling/overcoming an addiction is making a rational choice.

Why not make this rational choice to begin with and not after the fact???

It just isn't. Addicts do not think rationally about their dependence, though they do about every other aspect of their life. They justify it in their heads at any cost. The first step to getting rid of the addiction is facing up to yourself. It is such a hard thing to do, also very embarrassing however it has to happen to kick the habit whether it's Charlie, booze, gambling etc.

 

[iluvparis]

http://www.smh.com.au/business/bookies-flout-australian-ban-on-inplay-betting-20160531-gp7wf2.html - Went looking for in-play betting info.

It is banned in Australia but only online. Bookies getting around this by having click-to-call options on their apps. Phone call is made over the web but the government is calling this against the intent of the law.

In-play betting is one of the biggest ways problem gamblers are hooked. As the odds vary according to the score line, the problem gambler puts on more bets.

?? What is so special about in-play betting that hooks problem gamblers?

 

[Chief]

?? What is so special about in-play betting that hooks problem gamblers?

As the odds vary according to the score line, the problem gambler puts on more bets.

 

[iluvparis]

As the odds vary according to the score line, the problem gambler puts on more bets.

Sorry mate - don't buy that logic at all. Otherwise bookies could just alter the odds every 10 minutes of a game that hasn't started yet to get problem gamblers to bet more.

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

?? What is so special about in-play betting that hooks problem gamblers?

An increase in the "event frequency", therefore increased reinforcement which can contribute to the development and maintenance of an addiction

 

[Chief]

Sorry mate - don't buy that logic at all. Otherwise bookies could just alter the odds every 10 minutes of a game that hasn't started yet to get problem gamblers to bet more.

I will find the evidence.


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