Game Day: NAB Cup round 1 v Carlton/Port

Huntercrow

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Wonder what Sando thought of his lacklustre efforts, for someone who has the ideal physique and talent, he just doesn't seem interested.
I thought he would have gone in with a fresh attitude and enthusiasm. but not to be.

I think Walker will be Sando's biggest challenge this year.
 
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As I said Stab, a virus, in oppressive conditions.... Can you blame anyone for going at 70 percent?

Why would we want to do anymore than whats required in February?

Why would anybody expect a full tilt hit out? Why would anyone WANT it?

We don't really know whether he had a virus or not - though he certainly played like he did :eek:

It's important to go hard in February. As much as we like to imagine that players can pick and choose when they're going to push themselves 100%, the reality is you need to get yourself pretty damn close to 100% in the months before the real stuff starts if you want to be able to get there once it does.

I don't believe for a second that Walker was simply "saving himself up" for round 1. He didn't look like someone who just thought "**** it, it's not worth it" - he looked like he couldn't tell you which way was up and which way was down.

Thing is the guy is super fit. He's not fast, but he's super fit - one of the fittest in our club. There's no way I'll believe that he ran out of puff 15 minutes into the match in what were relatively mild conditions. Nor did he appear to simply pull the lazy card out. That's why I reckon it was probably the virus, or something along those lines. At the ground I was convinced he must have injured himself or something, but he continued to play the rest of the match and against Port so obviously not.
 

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If Walker had the competitive intensity of Tippett, he'd kick 80+ goals this year, comfortably.

Could not agree more, Walker too often does not attack the contest with total commitment for mine, in fact Walker is almost the complete antithesis of Tippett....I read on here how magnificent Walker's physique is, time he started to use it productivly on match day not just in the weights room!!
 

Elder van Berlo

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I went to the game yesterday and have since watched the replay, so a few of my thoughts:

We still didn't really win our share of the ball in the midfield. Our tackling intent was better than last year, but we still let too many either slip or get arms free.

Forward delivery was pretty ordinary, the plan looks to be to use Tippett/Walker as targets for smaller guys to feed off, which worked well when we had some numbers up around the big guys but there were a few occasions where we went long to a 1 on 3 with nobody around to help when the ball hit the ground. It would be nice to just occasionally give ourselves an easy shot on goal by spotting up a target on a lead inside 50.

Big shift in the way we played in defence. A lot more focussed on beating your man than the structure-driven Craig method. Then it is incumbent on other defenders to sag off their players and kill the contest as a 3rd man up. When it worked, it looked good. At times we got caught out (eg Schulz's first goal in the second game), but I'm sure it will improve with more proper match practice.

Thoughts on individual players, with the disclaimer that I am not really drawing any conclusions, it was really just a first hit out and it's dangerous to read too much into it. It's a bit of a ramble so take it or leave it as you see fit:

1. Tambling - only got a few minutes as sub v Port, and had a neat mark and give in the leadup to Kerridge's miss. Keep an eye on his playing time for the rest of pre-season to determine whether there is anything in the lack of opportunity he got in these games.

3. Reilly - looked better on tv than at the game, particularly in the Carlton game. Solid but has his flaws - he is best 22 for now but I hope he gets overtaken by the end of the season.

4. Tippett - monster in the Port game, played higher up the ground which if it continues should give us a focus through half forward.

5. S. Thompson - very quiet, doesn't matter.

6. L. Thompson - did a pretty good job against Carlton, both defensively and gave us a bit of run. Would have thought he's capable of playing and playing pretty well if required this season.

7. van Berlo - solid couple of games, but hasn't shaken the annoying habit of playing on blindly whenever he takes a mark, which leads to him often having kicks smothered/shanked trying to kick under a smother. Ironically two such kicks led to our goals against Port. Also had a couple of nice goal assists v Carlton, including a beauty on the left foot to Walker for the game winner.

8. Johnston - came on as sub v Port and didn't have an influence.

9. Sloane - it's all been said in this thread already. Gun. Not many have mentioned his goal (and game) saving spoil in the goalsquare with scores level late on v Port.

10. Jaensch - all quality in the backlines, took up where he left off before injury last year. A lock for round 1 imo.

11. Doughty - only played v Port, was solid as usual. Another one who will be there round 1 but if everyone progresses then maybe not by round 23.

12. Talia - superb I thought. Looks very accomplished as a KPD given his youth. Was unlucky in giving away a HTB free late on v Carlton, he had actually won an earlier contest really well but missed the contact with the handball - if he'd got that off we would have been away down the members' wing.

13. Walker - controversial. For what it's worth I thought he looked rusty, but showed his quality and nerve by kicking 2 goals (including the winning goal) v Carlton. As for his effort, I think it's more his laconic style, that debate has been had and I don't have much to add. Just on the 2 specific incidents that have been referred to: 1) the no-chase in the forward line v Carlton - what many people didn't see is that Tex busted a lung for a good 70+ metres to attack that space in the forward 50. He got a loopy teasing kick from Lynch which was just out of his reach, but not far enough that he stopped to gather on the bounce - he kept sprinting all the way until he just didn't get there, then it took a right angled bounce back the other way and it looked like he just had nothing left after the big initial effort. It happened right in front of me and it didn't look lazy to me, it looked knackered. 2) the Phillips hit, looked from where I was (admittedly at the other end) like he was blindsided a bit and wasn't expecting the contact. It doesn't take much to throw you off balance in that situation.

14. Mackay - pretty anonymous really, one beautifully weighted (or lucky) kick to Lynch aside (in the leadup to Walker's incident 1). Hopefully he will improve as pre-season goes on.

15. Symes - very quiet v Port, didn't play v Carlton.

17. Vince - got a few touches but looked like he'd rather be elsewhere for much of the day. Squibbed a contest horribly when Doughty kicked in from the member's boundary line, but got a let-off when it was called back to Doughty. Port players in the area let him know about it.

18. Johncock - it's early, but he looked sharp. An awesome bit of thievery and nearly kicked a supergoal in the first half v Carlton, and took a really good clutch mark in the back 50 late on.

20. Jenkins - came on late v Port, had a couple of nice touches including 2 handballs in the leadup to Kerridge's miss. Was also awol defensively once or twice. Definitely a ruckman/forward in my book.

22. Otten - looked rusty, including a horrible moment against Port where he dropped an uncontested mark (forgivable in slippery conditions) and then handballed straight to an opponent. Like Mackay, hopefully will improve.

23. Petrenko - looked very good, particularly v Carlton. Many have mentioned the superb left footed pass to Lynch.

24. Jacobs - gun. My favourite thing about him is how co-ordinated he is. Very comfortable gathering the ball off the ground, receiving and giving handballs and has among the better foot skills on our list. Laced out McIntyre in the second half v Port but McIntyre dropped the mark about 45 out.

26. Douglas - found a bit of it but decision making remains a concern. Took the advantage a couple of times when the free kick might have been a better option.

27. Lynch - didn't rate his game v Carlton at the time, but watching again it was very good. Looks to have a nice set of hands both in the air and below his knees, and gave a couple of sharp handballs in traffic. If there's a criticism, it's that he missed Tex on a couple of leads when he really should have hit him because they weren't difficult targets.

29. Kerridge - really liked his game v Port. Not afraid to get dirty, won his own ball and used it well, particularly by hand in traffic. The shot at goal was just nerves, nothing to worry about there.

31. Lyons - another one who looked better on tv, won a bit of it in close which was good to see. Nice gather, handball and shepherd for Tex's supergoal v Carlton, and shepherded Callinan's left foot snap late in that game quite brilliantly.

32. Dangerfield - looked rusty but got a few touches and probably wasn't helped by the slippery conditions.

33. Smith - didn't notice him at the game but got a lot of it v Carlton. Looking forward to Brodie this year, he has the tools to be a very complete midfielder.

34. Shaw - excellent I thought. Showed great courage within the first 15 seconds on his day v Port - could easily have had his face caved in. Made a few very good spoils, took a couple of nice grabs and when he made a mistake dropping a mark in the goalsquare, he made up for it by tackling Schulz and rushing the behind. Awkward kicking action but he didn't miss a target.

35. McKernan - made a brief appearance v Carlton and didn't have an impact. Big battle coming up between him and Jenkins for the 2nd ruck spot in the depth chart.

37. Callinan - skilful as usual, kicked a wonderful goal to seal the Carlton game. Good squad player but I can't help feeling that a squad player with 10 games experience needs to be a bit younger to get a gig in the best 22.

43. Riley - had minimal impact v Port. Kerridge might have overtaken him at this stage.

45. Henderson - didn't get a lot of it but made several good spoils as 3rd man up v Carlton. Just not a physical player, a few times he tried to do the right thing but just doesn't quite know how to lay a hit. One particular example happened on the outer back flank where Hendo needed to take Lucas' body and he tried but just seemed to drift through him and come out the other side. I still think Hendo can be a good player, and perhaps too much is expected of him because of how good he was in his first few games in 2010. Hendomania seems a long time ago.

47. Wright - played v Carlton and didn't do a hell of a lot. May have been overtaken at this early stage by...

49. McIntyre - was superb v Port. Got plenty of it, generally made a nuisance of himself and finished with a lot of composure when given a chance in front of goal. Reportedly has had a very good pre-season and it showed. Similar player to Wright, a sort of in and under small forward in the Bode mould (as opposed to an elusive Milne or Rioli type), so I don't really see room for both of them in the same team.
 
Oct 14, 2005
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How many players have had an 80+ goal season in the last 10 years? How often has it happened?
Not often, which justifies your statement that it's a massive expectation that people are putting on Walker's shoulders.

Here's the record for the last 10 years:
2002 - David Neitz (82 goals)
2003 - Matthew Lloyd (93)
2004 - Fraser Gehrig (103), Matthew Lloyd (96), Warren Tredrea (81)
2005 - Barry Hall (80)
2006 - Brendan Fevola (84)
2007 - nil
2008 - Lance Franklin (113), Brendan Fevola (99)
2009 - Brendan Fevola (89), Jonathon Brown (85)
2010 - Barry Hall (80)
2011 - Lance Franklin (82)

So.. since 2005 only Hall, Fevola, Franklin & Brown have achieved this mark - yet some people feel that Walker is fit to join this elite company. Not in this universe, at least not in 2012! Not even if he had Tippett's intensity.
 

rayven

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Former Guernsey number III and number VI who played in the 97 prelim together....

It really is deja vu reading all the opinions of the current gurnsey number XIII
 

OzSparrow

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Just on Reilly in the Carlton game, i think he did well when he was 1v1 in marking contests and had space. No space = terrible disposal a few too many times from a senior player but ill let it slide.

The only real worry with him down there are the types of players he will need to play on. He isnt quick, by foot or with his head. He was too often let to the ball with 3-4 steps between him and his opponent. He has no chance to contest the mark. If he was able to keep up or the delivery was bad he did well. But without that he was shown out way too many times.

IMHO this has been Radar's problem for several years now. I firmly believe we made a mistake by keeping him on our list and he should have been traded at the end of 2011 (not sure what we would get for him but he is an experienced player).

He is too slow for Sando's new corridor gameplan and continually makes awful in-game decisions to which I am sure most Crows fans cringe every time he gets the Sherrin in his hands (particularly in our backline - I have lost count of the ball decisions he gets or the targets he misses).

I also honestly do not know which position he is best suited to now. Perhaps a tagging role if he wants to stay in our best 22 but I feel he is too slow and doesn't have the tank to do that role for a full game. Besides, I think Dogga has this role for us now (quite admirably).

His defensive skills are below average so the HBF is probably not an option and he has limited crumbing skills so HFF is also not an option. Wing he is too slow for and midfield he doesn't have the tank or constitution for.

Unfortunately, I feel his best days are behind him and I would not be surprised if Sando has already put him on notice of this.
 
Nov 5, 2009
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He is too slow for Sando's new corridor gameplan and continually makes awful in-game decisions to which I am sure most Crows fans cringe every time he gets the Sherrin in his hands (particularly in our backline - I have lost count of the ball decisions he gets or the targets he misses).

I think he is a great kick of the footy (turns the ball over a lot less by foot than thommo/vb/sloane etc) - its his decision making which lets him down....

He will be in our best 22 all year provided he stays healthy...
 

Freddy Bassett

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Reilly was not that bad. Seriously get off his case... It is getting quite boring... How about some positives get mentioned? Sam Shaw? Talia? Sloane? Jacobs? VB? Callinan?
 

Elite Crow

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I reckon that's harsh on Reilly as he was (in my opinion) one of our best across both games.

Jenny in the first game he missed Vince who was standing 20 metres directly in front of him to instead kick it over his head to a Carlton player. This wasnt his only mistake.

In the last game he had 3-4 possesions.

If that form is in our best we are in for a very long season.
 

macca23

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I reckon that's harsh on Reilly as he was (in my opinion) one of our best across both games.

He was IMO too Jen.

The media agreed with you too.

He made a couple of clangers in each game (going by some posters criticism of him, obviously he was the only one on the ground that did), but did a lot of good work and certainly not frightened to put his body in.
 

Elite Crow

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He was IMO too Jen.

The media agreed with you too.

He made a couple of clangers in each game (going by some posters criticism of him, obviously he was the only one on the ground that did), but did a lot of good work and certainly not frightened to put his body in.

Macca 2 clangers from 4 possessions aint that good;)
 

macca23

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Macca 2 clangers from 4 possessions aint that good;)

If that's all he did, yes. But he played very well in the first game against Carlton, plus in both games he used his body well in spoiling, blocking bumping etc.

You have to be fair EC and look at the whole package, not just the negatives. :)
 
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From what I understand there has been a severe bout of gastro going through the club. What wasn't seen by most people at the ground, or on the tv replay, was what occurred at half time in the Port game. Walker was at the back of the group while the rest got called in. He had one of the medical staff next to him while he did a 'McLeod special'. From that I gathered he was one of those who had been suffering gastro.

The bump by Phillips was excellent use of the body by Phillips in that instance and even Modra would have been bumped off the ball. Credit where credit is due.

Also I disagree with what was said above about Riley. He did some great in close work that we know he has the ability to do. Getting his body in the way and protecting a teammate so they can get the ball. A few times some brilliant tap downs by Tippett to him nearly came off. I remember one in particular on the members wing where Riley was just a little too quick for the tap, but had the tap been a little ahead of him he would have burst from stoppage and there wasn't a port player ahead of him to stop him.

This was the first competitive hitout against a team that didn't know what was going to happen next. It was in reality 1/2 hour in each instance. Only very minimal can be taken from it and the over obsessing and negative attitudes is why I rarely post any more. Or why I am not that interested in reading the board.
 
Feb 3, 2004
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He was IMO too Jen.

The media agreed with you too.

He made a couple of clangers in each game (going by some posters criticism of him, obviously he was the only one on the ground that did), but did a lot of good work and certainly not frightened to put his body in.

Macca, I suspect you were also at the game? What did you think of his positioning as the loose man in defence in the Port game? I thought he was playing it a bit differently from how Stiffy used to set up as the loose man.
 

macca23

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Macca, I suspect you were also at the game? What did you think of his positioning as the loose man in defence in the Port game? I thought he was playing it a bit differently from how Stiffy used to set up as the loose man.

Very hard to judge on that game Nikki, as it was a much more physical, closed game than the Carlton one.

Stiffy positions himself better IMO, and counter attacks more quickly, but then again that's something that Stiffy has done many times.
 
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Very hard to judge on that game Nikki, as it was a much more physical, closed game than the Carlton one.

Stiffy positions himself better IMO, and counter attacks more quickly, but then again that's something that Stiffy has done many times.

I think that for Stiffy it is more about stealing the ball in the first place and the blocking is secondary, although he is very good at that. While from the little we were shown it was, to me, more about Reilly blocking the space and then assisting our other defenders and then thirdly getting a possession himself. If they can work on that, it's a handy plan B or C to have.
 
Oct 16, 2011
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As far as Taylor Walker goes, why doesn't the club just get Wayne Carey over to teach him everything he knows ( obviously not everything, we don't need Tex rooting Van Berlos missus).

I mean if there was ever someone who used to crash a pack hard and make second efforts to go with his incredible talent, it was Carey and surely Tex would be willing to listen to such a legend as the King.

FFS, he's an ex player who has time on his hands, get him over as a part time specialist role, even if it is just to spend two hours, one day a week in the kids ear
 

rayven

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Not often, which justifies your statement that it's a massive expectation that people are putting on Walker's shoulders.

Here's the record for the last 10 years:
2002 - David Neitz (82 goals)
2003 - Matthew Lloyd (93)
2004 - Fraser Gehrig (103), Matthew Lloyd (96), Warren Tredrea (81)
2005 - Barry Hall (80)
2006 - Brendan Fevola (84)
2007 - nil
2008 - Lance Franklin (113), Brendan Fevola (99)
2009 - Brendan Fevola (89), Jonathon Brown (85)
2010 - Barry Hall (80)
2011 - Lance Franklin (82)

So.. since 2005 only Hall, Fevola, Franklin & Brown have achieved this mark - yet some people feel that Walker is fit to join this elite company. Not in this universe, at least not in 2012! Not even if he had Tippett's intensity.

not shooting your post down as its quite apt, however and there is always one.

This game was about offense until around 1996 with all the power forwards


Lockett
Modra
Dunstal
Ablett
carey
longmire
Sumich
Lynch
Lowe
Richardson
Salmon



Either peaking or just finnished a mass influence on coaching...

the game went defensive and around 2000 people started questoning will we see 100 kicked again (1993 3 guys smashed the 100 barrier) improved fitness tecniques then enabled zoning to be more effictive

I kinda think todays 80 mark is around the 100 of yesterday...I kinda think though that the traditional ways of australain football are being regulated back into style, so im thinking possibly this year we will see an explosion in goal accumalation by key forwards.

My opinion,though of walker is he's as talanted as hacks get....
 
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