TV Game of Thrones - season 8

The Royal Sampler

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Would have saved a lot of complaining if they just killed Viserion this episode IMO.
Pretty sure it was Viserion that the NK brought down. Rhaegal was taken down by Euron.

I quite liked the idea put forth earlier by Baldur; have Dany/Drogon take down the scorpions and some low level burning of enemy troops on the ground. Cersei rings the bells, then Dany/Drogon, sitting and watching things percolate, take flight and head straight for the Red Keep, incinerating Cersei (and Jaime) and sending it crashing to the earth... inadvertently setting off a cascade of wildfire from Aerys’ reign which results in the deaths of a great many innocent civilians. Show the response on the ground and not from Dany.

You could enter the last episode with Dany having overstepped the mark and having been responsible for, a) the deaths of Cersei and Jaime despite their surrender, and b) by extension the massive loss of life of the people of KL. It wouldn’t be clear whether she knew about the wildfire (you could even have had Tyrion warn her about it earlier) and whether this was part of her design... and there would be more reason to question which side the coin had fallen on leading into the finale. Plus, if she must go that way, the hatred of the people she would now have earnt would be added justification.
 

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King Elvis

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You just put up a proposition of what you say the writers should do and then use examples i.e. Red Wedding and Ned's beheading of not showing the aftermath, yet both of those episodes from my memory ended immediately. Ned's head was lopped off -- cut to black. Katelyn Starks throat gets cut -- cut to black.

At the start of both episodes after they don't return to the immediate aftermath. They move on to different scenes.

This happens all the time in television as there is typically a week's break between episodes so the immediate aftermath would lose its emotional punch.

Btw, we saw plenty of what Jon thought about Dany's actions. He was trying to pull his troops out as soon as she went bananas, which is quite possibly treason. He looked horrified. Plenty was seen of Tyrion looking horrified right from the start of the attack.
Red Wedding we saw Robb paraded around with his Wolf's head on his shoulders.

Would have saved a lot of complaining if they just killed Viserion this episode IMO.

Dont kill Viseron in the last episode with that bulldust, kill him in the exact same way this episode in the middle of the battle, not that appear out of nowhere bolt from the blue nonsense (and "forgetting about Euron" crap), have him fall into the middle of the city. (Removes complaints)

Dany sees this, and anger builds. This also provides a trigger for Dany, which i think is missing from her flipping out, really needed an event for that straw that broke the camels back moment, then we can all justify it so much easier, you could even have a few civilians trying to attack dying Viserion just lying there doing nothing. Dany sees the city is against her and its game on.

Hearing bells is just no where near a good enough trigger. It ended up being her easiest siege of the entire series.


(Im not saying i could do any better, i am just enjoying the discussion so dont flame on for no reason)
This is great - and exactly what should've happened.
 

Agent93

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- Ep 5 ballistas were shown again, to be hard to adjust like the battle of the Goldroad. But in Ep4 they were easy to swivel and line up.
- An entire fleet were hidden behind a rock. Or appaered out of nowhere. Dany was looking in the direction of the first bolt that hit Rhaegal, at least one of the ships in the fleet should been visible given that it is implied Euron killed Rhaegal.
- Dragon abilities have been adjusted to fit the scenario. Drogon vs boats part one and part two are completely inconsistant. Dragons in the Battle of Goldroad vs the Battle of Winterfell have completely different impact.

Basically D&D changed the rules of the world to suit the event they had to make happen; Rhaegal needed to die so Jon would be on the ground when attacking King's Landing.
 

Agent93

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inadvertently setting off a cascade of wildfire
This is another annoyance of mine - there's been literally no consequence to Cersei destroying the Sept of Baelor, wiping out most of the Westeros' main religious leaders. Imagine if the Italian Prime Minister blew up St Peter's Basilica with several hundred people in attendance?
 

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- Ep 5 ballistas were shown again, to be hard to adjust like the battle of the Goldroad. But in Ep4 they were easy to swivel and line up.
- An entire fleet were hidden behind a rock. Or appaered out of nowhere. Dany was looking in the direction of the first bolt that hit Rhaegal, at least one of the ships in the fleet should been visible given that it is implied Euron killed Rhaegal.
- Dragon abilities have been adjusted to fit the scenario. Drogon vs boats part one and part two are completely inconsistant. Dragons in the Battle of Goldroad vs the Battle of Winterfell have completely different impact.

Basically D&D changed the rules of the world to suit the event they had to make happen; Rhaegal needed to die so Jon would be on the ground when attacking King's Landing.
Were they easy to swivel in ep 4?
 

The Royal Sampler

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This is another annoyance of mine - there's been literally no consequence to Cersei destroying the Sept of Baelor, wiping out most of the Westeros' main religious leaders. Imagine if the Italian Prime Minister blew up St Peter's Basilica with several hundred people in attendance?
I agree for the most part, however;
a) Cersei could deny responsibility
b) Italian PM isn’t a dictator/monarch
c) Faith of the Seven is largely a Westerosi/Andals thing, whereas Christianity is worldwide
d) Greater potential for condemnation from without of Italian government for killing innocents en masse in Europe than of Westerosi killing their own as the dominant military force in the region
 

The Royal Sampler

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Were they easy to swivel in ep 4?
I got the impression Dany was rather clueless as to how to attack them. Clearly they can’t shoot directly up, so bombing down from above as Aegon I did on Balerion would have worked like a charm. Instead, she flew Drogon right at them in a rage without opening fire. Good way to get him killed, in fact.
 

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I got the impression Dany was rather clueless as to how to attack them. Clearly they can’t shoot directly up, so bombing down from above as Aegon I did on Balerion would have worked like a charm. Instead, she flew Drogon right at them in a rage without opening fire. Good way to get him killed, in fact.
Which she corrected the next time she faced them.
 

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Kirby

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- Ep 5 ballistas were shown again, to be hard to adjust like the battle of the Goldroad. But in Ep4 they were easy to swivel and line up.
- An entire fleet were hidden behind a rock. Or appaered out of nowhere. Dany was looking in the direction of the first bolt that hit Rhaegal, at least one of the ships in the fleet should been visible given that it is implied Euron killed Rhaegal.
- Dragon abilities have been adjusted to fit the scenario. Drogon vs boats part one and part two are completely inconsistant. Dragons in the Battle of Goldroad vs the Battle of Winterfell have completely different impact.

Basically D&D changed the rules of the world to suit the event they had to make happen; Rhaegal needed to die so Jon would be on the ground when attacking King's Landing.
I don't think they ever showed the ballistas as easy to swivel in ep.4. The first volley that hit the dragon we don't see them lining up but the show inferred that the dragons had just flown into their line of site. After that, Dany and Drogon fly straight at Euron and his ships and then retreats straight back from where she came when they start firing at her.

She was taken by surprise.

In the second battle she took them by surprise. Came in steeply from up high with the sun behind her. When attacking the walls Drogon was seen dodging several bolts before suddenly flying straight up and frying them from above before they could re-load.

I have no idea what you mean by the dragons have different impact? one was in an open field and the next battle was over sea and land.

There were many different plot points that they could have used to have Jon on the ground rather than riding Rhaegal. I think the major plot point was to give the impression that ballistas gave Cercei a chance in the battle. It also served as a lesson for Dany.
 

Kirby

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She didn’t adjust at the time and destroy the entire Iron Fleet, she flew Drogon at the fleet and did not attack with “dracarys”, leaving her remaining dragon, her life and her quest for the Iron Throne in peril.
I think you have to realise she was taken completely by surprise, her dragon (child) had just been killed before her eyes and she was reacting with anger before coming to her senses.
 

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She didn’t adjust at the time and destroy the entire Iron Fleet, she flew Drogon at the fleet and did not attack with “dracarys”, leaving her remaining dragon, her life and her quest for the Iron Throne in peril.
No, because she was upset at the death of one of her children and against overwhelming odds. Given the following days/weeks, and time to plan, she was fine when she flew against them again.
 

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- Ep 5 ballistas were shown again, to be hard to adjust like the battle of the Goldroad. But in Ep4 they were easy to swivel and line up.
- An entire fleet were hidden behind a rock. Or appaered out of nowhere. Dany was looking in the direction of the first bolt that hit Rhaegal, at least one of the ships in the fleet should been visible given that it is implied Euron killed Rhaegal.
- Dragon abilities have been adjusted to fit the scenario. Drogon vs boats part one and part two are completely inconsistant. Dragons in the Battle of Goldroad vs the Battle of Winterfell have completely different impact.

Basically D&D changed the rules of the world to suit the event they had to make happen; Rhaegal needed to die so Jon would be on the ground when attacking King's Landing.
- We never saw them swivel in ep 4.
- Exactly 11 boats were hidden behind a huge land formation. Dany was looking in that direction the shot prior, we have no idea where she was looking in the shot where the first bolt hits. Not that it matters much - even if she was looking that way, the huge dragon between her and Euron would obscure a fair bit of vision.
- Yeah, it does feel inconsistent. Not a biggie for me though - she was clearly rattled in ep 4, ep 5 she was prepared an altered her tactics accordingly (dive bomb straight down, using the sun, getting in close quickly)
 

Agent93

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Were they easy to swivel in ep 4?
There's several shots of Euron in ep 4 moving the ballista around. In ep 5 there is a specific show showing how hard it is for Euron to move.

Which she corrected the next time she faced them.
Yet they still showed the first bolt whooshing past her in Ep5 before she opens fire.

No, because she was upset at the death of one of her children and against overwhelming odds. Given the following days/weeks, and time to plan, she was fine when she flew against them again.
Aside from coming from the clouds on the initial run the angle of attack for subsequent runs is the same as previous episode (and in past dragon attacks). Basically, ep 4 ballistas were way more effective before the mods nerfed them in ep 5.
 

The Royal Sampler

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No, because she was upset at the death of one of her children and against overwhelming odds. Given the following days/weeks, and time to plan, she was fine when she flew against them again.
I get all that. I just wouldn’t put her on the Tywin Lannister level of tactician. She was taken by surprise but she’s seen these things before on the battle of the Goldroad. Her first move should be to fly up and out of range... that’s just taking care of Drogon. Then decide at a safe distance whether to employ a divebomb strategy, which should have been discussed long ago after Goldroad, or live to fight another day which frankly still condemns her ships and sucks balls as leadership goes.

If you’re going to fly angry at entire fleet of ships which just took out one of your “children”, give your remaining “child”, on which you are currently perched, some cover and spout fire. Dragonfire should incinerate a bolt anyway.
 

Agent93

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Eh? There's no movement whatsover depicted at 0.46 (slight tilt up with noticeable effort from Euron a few seconds after) and at 1.45 its a down the barrel shot of Dany'd fleet being lined up really slowly.
Which is a still a whole lot more than the 'turn around!' in ep 5. I've also gotta stop watching that clip because it's riddled with continuity errors around the position of Euron.

I just noticed a nice detail - the ship ballistas have tentacles, whereas the land one have lion's heads.
 

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There's several shots of Euron in ep 4 moving the ballista around. In ep 5 there is a specific show showing how hard it is for Euron to move.


Yet they still showed the first bolt whooshing past her in Ep5 before she opens fire.


Aside from coming from the clouds on the initial run the angle of attack for subsequent runs is the same as previous episode (and in past dragon attacks). Basically, ep 4 ballistas were way more effective before the mods nerfed them in ep 5.
Exactly, it whooshed past because her tactic was successful. It's not like they made them impossible to fire.
 
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