FTA-TV Game of Thrones - season 8

[Vader]

I can find the troops without a stupid theory.

Common sense finds a few hundred Dothraki and a Unsullied soldiers not at the battle to add to those who survived it.

Soliders left behind to guard other castles, lands, injured soliders from previous battles left behind.

You don't think the Battle of Goldroad left behind a heap of injured soldiers?

From the battle:



So you think they are going to drag a heap of injured soldiers North with them? Nah.

There was no re-spawning.

Wrong on 2 accounts.

Firstly, Dany needed every single solder she could muster for the Army of the Living. That was the whole reason for her trip to KL, using the wight to (unsuccessfully) convince Cersei to send her army north. Dany wasn't leaving half her army scattered around Westeros, when they were so desperately needed in Winterfell. She knew they were quite literally facing a battle for Life or Death. If she lost that battle, it wouldn't matter if she still had some reserves scattered around the continent.

Secondly, we saw the commanders - first Grey Worm, then Jon, then Yohn Royce, then the Dothraki commander, removing their markers from the map, after the battle. Grey Worm says he has "half" his force remaining. He's clearly indicating that half of his forces survived the Battle of Winterfell, not that half of them are scattered all over Westeros.

Given the massacre we witnessed in ep #3, the only way to explain how "half" his force was still available for the Battle of Kings Landing was re-spawning (or cloning vats). The same also goes for the other armies (Northmen, Vale, Dothraki).

 

[Vader]

Episode 4 around the 33 minute mark, Greyworm takes a bunch of tokens off the table and says over half are gone.

Half of what we don't know. Unless someone counted every single Unsullied soldier arriving at Winterfell.

So they haven't re-spawned, they have told you categorically that many survived.

Except that we've clearly seen that they didn't. Yes, Grey Worm told us half survived. It was classic D&D bullshit. In ep #3 they showed them massacred, almost to a man. In ep #4 they'd magically re-spawned half the army.

** It wasn't just the Unsullied who re-spawned. The same holds true for all 4 armies present at the Battle of Winterfell - Unsullied, Dothraki, Northmen, Vale.

 

[King Elvis]

I can find the troops without a stupid theory.

Common sense finds a few hundred Dothraki and a Unsullied soldiers not at the battle to add to those who survived it.

Soliders left behind to guard other castles, lands, injured soliders from previous battles left behind.

You don't leave forces defending other places when you're making your last stand... it's your last stand.

And we aren't talking about a few hundred, we're talking about thousands.

 

[Bostonian]

Except that we've clearly seen that they didn't. Yes, Grey Worm told us half survived. It was classic D&D ********. In ep #3 they showed them massacred, almost to a man. In ep #4 they'd magically re-spawned half the army.

** It wasn't just the Unsullied who re-spawned. The same holds true for all 4 armies present at the Battle of Winterfell - Unsullied, Dothraki, Northmen, Vale.

You didn't see everything. You saw parts of it. So your clarity isn't based on anything but an opinion, one not supported by the show.

Just because you don't see everything does not mean something did not happen.

The difference is you need to see every little ******* detail for it to exist or have happened.

Otherwise you go straight to jumping the shark.

 

[Bostonian]

You don't leave forces defending other places when you're making your last stand... it's your last stand.

And we aren't talking about a few hundred, we're talking about thousands.

Of course you do if they are strategic.

You saying they left Dragonstone for example completely undefended even though that's where they had to head back to to launch their next campaign from?

Would you leave your base completely undefended?

 

[Vader]

You didn't see everything. You saw parts of it. So your clarity isn't based on anything but an opinion, one not supported by the show.

Just because you don't see everything does not mean something did not happen.

The difference is you need to see every little ******* detail for it to exist or have happened.

Otherwise you go straight to jumping the shark.

What do you mean "one not supported by the show"? How is there any other version, based on what we saw in the show? You're the one making stuff up and trying to argue that "it could have happened this way, even if it flies in the face of every single thing we saw in episode #3.

Why do you feel the need to endlessly defend the absolute rubbish which D&D wrote in the last series? There are obvious and massive holes in almost everything they did this season, and yet you're willing to die in a ditch defending the indefensible? Why?

 

[Bostonian]

Wrong on 2 accounts.

Firstly, Dany needed every single solder she could muster for the Army of the Living. That was the whole reason for her trip to KL, using the wight to (unsuccessfully) convince Cersei to send her army north. Dany wasn't leaving half her army scattered around Westeros, when they were so desperately needed in Winterfell. She knew they were quite literally facing a battle for Life or Death. If she lost that battle, it wouldn't matter if she still had some reserves scattered around the continent.

Secondly, we saw the commanders - first Grey Worm, then Jon, then Yohn Royce, then the Dothraki commander, removing their markers from the map, after the battle. Grey Worm says he has "half" his force remaining. He's clearly indicating that half of his forces survived the Battle of Winterfell, not that half of them are scattered all over Westeros.

Given the massacre we witnessed in ep #3, the only way to explain how "half" his force was still available for the Battle of Kings Landing was re-spawning (or cloning vats). The same also goes for the other armies (Northmen, Vale, Dothraki).

So where was Yohn Royce during the battle?

 

[Vader]

Of course you do if they are strategic.

You saying they left Dragonstone for example completely undefended even though that's where they had to head back to to launch their next campaign from?

Would you leave your base completely undefended?

Where's the strategy? If the lose the battle, then the only people going back to Dragonstone will be the Dead. There is literally no point at all in leaving any living soldier anywhere other than Winterfell. Leaving soldiers at Dragonstone (or anywhere else) would be a massive strategic blunder, not a "strategically good idea for the next campaign".

 

[Bostonian]

What do you mean "one not supported by the show"? How is there any other version, based on what we saw in the show? You're the one making stuff up and trying to argue that "it could have happened this way, even if it flies in the face of every single thing we saw in episode #3.

Why do you feel the need to endlessly defend the absolute rubbish which D&D wrote in the last series? There are obvious and massive holes in almost everything they did this season, and yet you're willing to die in a ditch defending the indefensible? Why?

The one where you can't see every single soldier or their position.

You didn't see Yohn Royce for the battle, but we know he was there and obviously he was taking part in the battle somewhere in Winterfell

I feel the need to defend it because I read some of the dumb as * questions people ask and think Jesus, if that's how much they miss in the show no wonder it feels like there's so many dummies watching the show.

 

[Vader]

So where was Yohn Royce during the battle?

There was a screenshot posted of the Vale soldiers, during the battle. I'm not sure if Royce was specifically identified, but the Vale soldiers were identified by their insignia.

 

[Bostonian]

Where's the strategy? If the lose the battle, then the only people going back to Dragonstone will be the Dead. There is literally no point at all in leaving any living soldier anywhere other than Winterfell. Leaving soldiers at Dragonstone (or anywhere else) would be a massive strategic blunder, not a "strategically good idea for the next campaign".

Dany was very confident with her Dragons, she was already thinking once they wipe the NK out they will march back to KL.

And so now we have you saying it would be a strategic blunder, even though that whole episode was full of complaints from sooks about strategic blunders.

So what you've stated is that strategic blunders are very much something Dany has shown she's capable of and actually play right into her character's faults.

So leaving some troops behind then becomes highly plausible.

 

[mike123]

coz it would be easier to infiltrate the Red Keep during a war.

It would be easier to infiltrate when all the defences on high?

 

[Vader]

The one where you can't see every single soldier or their position.

You didn't see Yohn Royce for the battle, but we know he was there and obviously he was taking part in the battle somewhere in Winterfell

I feel the need to defend it because I read some of the dumb as **** questions people ask and think Jesus, if that's how much they miss in the show no wonder it feels like there's so many dummies watching the show.

You're making the assumption that half the army was hiding out of sight.

We saw the map, both before and after the battle. The whole army was arrayed in front of Winterfell. Given the complete lack of intelligent battle tactics on display, it's almost inconceivable that D&D would even think of having them anywhere else. The map put them front & centre, in front of the gates - where the entire battle was played out. They weren't hiding on the far side of Winterfell.

Please, if you're going to come up with these madcap theories to defend the indefensible, can you at least provide some shred of evidence from the show which supports them? It's very clear that you're making things up, trying to come up with ever more bizarre theories of how the impossible becomes possible.

As in most things, the simplest explanation is usually the right one. In this case, the simplest explanation is that the writers just stuffed up and hoped that nobody would notice.

 

[Bostonian]

There was a screenshot posted of the Vale soldiers, during the battle. I'm not sure if Royce was specifically identified, but the Vale soldiers were identified by their insignia.

I posted that.

He wasn't there. They were flanking Jaime and Brienne.

So Yohn was there somewhere, we just didn't see where or who he was leading.

Are you ok with that? I'm ok with that.

Easy enough to imagine he's controlling troops elsewhere in the defence but not at the front gates.

 

[Bostonian]

You're making the assumption that half the army was hiding out of sight.

We saw the map, both before and after the battle. The whole army was arrayed in front of Winterfell. Given the complete lack of intelligent battle tactics on display, it's almost inconceivable that D&D would even think of having them anywhere else. The map put them front & centre, in front of the gates - where the entire battle was played out. They weren't hiding on the far side of Winterfell.

Please, if you're going to come up with these madcap theories to defend the indefensible, can you at least provide some shred of evidence from the show which supports them? It's very clear that you're making things up, trying to come up with ever more bizarre theories of how the impossible becomes possible.

As in most things, the simplest explanation is usually the right one. In this case, the simplest explanation is that the writers just stuffed up and hoped that nobody would notice.

There were markers inside the gates.

 

[Vader]

Dany was very confident with her Dragons, she was already thinking once they wipe the NK out they will march back to KL.

And so now we have you saying it would be a strategic blunder, even though that whole episode was full of complaints from sooks about strategic blunders.

So what you've stated is that strategic blunders are very much something Dany has shown she's capable of and actually play right into her character's faults.

So leaving some troops behind then becomes highly plausible.

And no... you're still making stuff up to defend the indefensible.

The whole reason Dany went to KL with the wight was to get more men for her army. She knew that Winterfell was quite literally a Last Stand. Lose that battle, and there would be no tomorrow. She wasn't leaving reserves scattered elsewhere, when she literally needed every living soldier to fight the Army of the Dead. Your suggestion is pure nonsense.

 

[Bostonian]

And no... you're still making stuff up to defend the indefensible.

The whole reason Dany went to KL with the wight was to get more men for her army. She knew that Winterfell was quite literally a Last Stand. Lose that battle, and there would be no tomorrow. She wasn't leaving reserves scattered elsewhere, when she literally needed every living soldier to fight the Army of the Dead. Your suggestion is pure nonsense.

Like everything you retort with it reverts back to what you can see on a small tv screen.

That's not how movies and TV work, so maybe it's not for you.

I mean was it OK in Star Wars to say all the Jedi are gone? Just like that, all wiped out.

Worked for me. Not sure it would work for you though because unless you see it happening it didn't happen.

Nothing happens off screen when you watch GoT it seems.

 

[Vader]

Here are a couple of screenshots of the map:

The first screen shot is taken just as Grey Worm is reaching to remove his tokens, during the post-battle review.


The second is taken just after Jon Snow removes half the Northmen's tokens from the board:


The tokens are as follows:
Round - Unsullied
Triangles - Dothraki
Rectangular (behind Wolf head) - Northmen
Rectangular (behind bird & moon) - Vale
Round with Dragon - Dany & Jon, on Drogon & Rhaegal

As a battle map, it's just about useless, given that nothing is to scale (Cerwyn and the Dreadfort are also shown on the map, despite being miles away from Winterfell). However, it does show that the formations were all kept together, with the Dothraki in front, and the Unsullied directly in front of Winterfell - exactly as we saw them line up at the start of the battle.

There is certainly no suggestion that the formations were split up, with half the Unsullied hiding around the back of Winterfell.

 

[Vader]

Like everything you retort with it reverts back to what you can see on a small tv screen.

That's not how movies and TV work, so maybe it's not for you.

I mean was it OK in Star Wars to say all the Jedi are gone? Just like that, all wiped out.

Worked for me. Not sure it would work for you though because unless you see it happening it didn't happen.

Nothing happens off screen when you watch GoT it seems.

It reverts to what was shown on the TV screen, as distinct from what you guess/assume/theorise/wish was happening off-screen. One of us has a theory supported by the evidence of what was actually seen. The other is relying on nothing but wild ideas, which are well beyond the tactical nous demonstrated by the writers themselves.

 

[mike123]

I can find the troops without a stupid theory.

Common sense finds a few hundred Dothraki and a Unsullied soldiers not at the battle to add to those who survived it.

Soliders left behind to guard other castles, lands, injured soliders from previous battles left behind.

You don't think the Battle of Goldroad left behind a heap of injured soldiers?

From the battle:



So you think they are going to drag a heap of injured soldiers North with them? Nah.

There was no re-spawning.

The problem is there’s no indication in the show that your theory is true.

 

[Bostonian]

The problem is there’s no indication in the show that your theory is true.

On the contrary. There's all the troops left in KL to support it.

I'm used to shows having things happen off screen and not needing to see it for it to be plausible.

Plenty of things have happened off screen in this show.

Did you have a mental break down when they said Yara retook the Iron Isles?

We didn't see it, no idea how it was undertaken. But it definitely happened because we see the result of it.

We can't see everything.

 

[Bostonian]

It reverts to what was shown on the TV screen, as distinct from what you guess/assume/theorise/wish was happening off-screen. One of us has a theory supported by the evidence of what was actually seen. The other is relying on nothing but wild ideas, which are well beyond the tactical nous demonstrated by the writers themselves.

So when they said she had 100,000 Dothraki following her you must have lost your mind at the TV.

Because there was never a TV shot showing that many people. And because it wasn't shown on the TV it therefore did not exist.

Am I doing it right?

You don't have a theory, you have a small minded view with zero imagination. Boggles the mind why you'd be watching a fantasy based TV show when the very premise of fantasy is to use your imagination.

 

[Vader]

On the contrary. There's all the troops left in KL to support it.

I'm used to shows having things happen off screen and not needing to see it for it to be plausible.

Plenty of things have happened off screen in this show.

Did you have a mental break down when they said Yara retook the Iron Isles?

We didn't see it, no idea how it was undertaken. But it definitely happened because we see the result of it.

We can't see everything.

Yara re-taking the Iron Isles was entirely plausible, given that Euron had all the islands' males in Kings Landing with the Iron Fleet. All that was left behind were old men, women and children.

The difference is that we were shown the carnage which happened during the Battle of Winterfell. We saw the Unsullied wiped out in front of the fire trench. We saw the Northmen massacred on the ramparts and in the courtyard. We saw the Dothraki charge, with only a few terrified survivors returning. This was all shown, repeatedly, and in great detail.

Your theory is nothing but pure fantasy, with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

The simplest explanation is almost always the right one. The simplest explanation isn't that the Army of the Living stupidly kept half their army out of the fight, when they knew that the very existence of humanity was on the line. The simplest explanation is that D&D stuffed up with their writing, as we know they've done about 1000 times in this series alone.

 

[Vader]

So when they said she had 100,000 Dothraki following her you must have lost your mind at the TV.

Because there was never a TV shot showing that many people. And because it wasn't shown on the TV it therefore did not exist.

Am I doing it right?

You don't have a theory, you have a small minded view with zero imagination. Boggles the mind why you'd be watching a fantasy based TV show when the very premise of fantasy is to use your imagination.

What a load of drivel. You're seriously reaching here.

You're making stuff up, in a bizarre attempt to cover up for the failings of D&D. In doing so, you've come up with weird military strategies which make no sense whatsoever given the strategic position our heroes found themselves in. They were literally in a "Last Battle" scenario. Lose this, and humanity is lost. To that end, they threw everything they had into the battle. Every single soldier. To suggest that they would keep half of them out of a battle, holding them in reserve for another battle to come, makes no strategic sense whatsoever. You completely underestimate the desperation of the situation they were facing.

I don't mind the idea of things happening off-screen. I object when there is no reference to those things, other than wishful thinking by a random fan, and those things make even less sense than the drivel which actually did flow from the writers' keyboards.

 

[mike123]

On the contrary. There's all the troops left in KL to support it.

I'm used to shows having things happen off screen and not needing to see it for it to be plausible.

Plenty of things have happened off screen in this show.

Did you have a mental break down when they said Yara retook the Iron Isles?

We didn't see it, no idea how it was undertaken. But it definitely happened because we see the result of it.

We can't see everything.

I never mentioned anything about seeing. A throwaway line would fine for me.

Yara taking back the iron isles is fine, she says she’s going to take them back Euron and his forces are at kings landing and then we’re told she takes them back. I’m perfectly happy about that.