TV Game of Thrones - season 8

Who dies?


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MC Bad Genius

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My guesses:

Jon – Alive, but wounded
Sansa – Alive; will survive the series and rule the North at the end
Arya – Alive
Bran – Dead; the trap will work but he will perish in the process
Theon – Dead; dies protecting Bran to buy time for someone to kill the Night King
Edd – Dead;
Sam – Alive; just not the sort of character to die
Gilly – Alive
Little Sam – Alive
Tormund – Dead; dies after taking down an undead giant
Brienne – Dead; dies saving Pod on the battlefield
The Hound – Alive; has to fight his brother (unless we get a completely undead Cleganebowl)
Beric – Dead; no longer serves any purpose (is the most disposable character)
Dany – Alive; still has to go full Mad Queen
Jorah – Alive; the Valaryian steel sword might just save him (I'm 50/50 on his chances though)
Lady Mormont – Alive; too awesome to die
Greyworm – Alive; seems a likely candidate to die but I think the show will throw a curve ball and kill...
Missandei – Dead; killed by Wight kids in the crypts (foreshadowed by her attempt to talk to them)
Varys – Dead; killed in the crypts by undead "little birds"
Tyrion – Alive; Bran has told him something important that will give him plot armour
Davos – Alive; I hope so anyway...could go either way
Jaime – Alive; unfinished business with Cersei
Poderick – Alive; saved in battle by Brienne
Gendry – Alive; like Jorah I'm 50/50 on this one though
Night King – Dead; the plan will succeed but at a high cost (Bran, Theon and others)
We'll both get a score out of 25 by the end of next Monday then!

Also, I like where you're going with Tormund, but I actually think he might die by the hand of a giant. Maybe even his suckled giantess!
 

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Strange Cat

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So they did discuss how the dragons will be used in the battle.

Someone asks how they will be used on the field. Super genius Jon Snow says no. We wont do that. We will have the dragons sit around and protect Bran whilst everyone else is dying.

Slow clap Jon Snow. You have done it again.
I’m looking forward to your tears next week
 

sorted

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I've been rewatching the series from the start. The ending of s4e1 has one of my favourite scenes from the whole show.

Ayra - 'when do I get my own horse? So I can get away from your stench'.
Hound is like 'little girl wants a pony. You can't have one'.

At the tavern. Arya, 'I know him. Polliver. He killed Lommy'.
Hound, 'What the ****'s a Lommy'?

Arya, 'He stole my sword. Needle'.
Hound, 'Of course, you named your sword'.
Ayra 'Lot's of people name their swords'.
Hound, 'Lots of campaigners!'

Hound to Polliver, 'If any more words come pouring out of your campaigner mouth I'm going to have to eat every ******* chicken in this room'. Epic pub brawl ensues. Arya gets needle back. And gets her pony. Hound gets his chicken!

 
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I hope you are right.

Could be awesome to see.

Thousands or millions of skeletons with the skeletal dragons overthrowing KL.
I'd love to see it, but I don't actually think it will happen.

For the dragon skeletons to be re-animated, the NK would have to win (or at least) survive next week's Battle of Winterfell. Given that I expect the Battle of Kings Landing to be fought by Dany/Aegon and the human survivors from Dany's army - not the NK and his Army of the Dead.
 

bourbons

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Interesting that a lot of people hated that episode while heaps also loved it. I probably fall somewhere somewhere in the middle, some great moments with loved characters that will add more depth to the inevitable destruction next week... but in a final season with 6 episodes I'm not sure we needed 2 of those type of episodes running 50ish minutes each. Could definitely have got done what they needed to with one ep of 70ish minutes.

No issues for mine with the Arya sex scene. Understand the watching her grow up on-screen angle but as others have said, deserved and logical development for the character, she ain't a kid anymore. And haven't people been saying the show has lost its edge or shock factor? Seems like they can't win lol. It was definitely a body double if that helps :D

Tormund's story :oops:. So good.

Great timing by Jon, drop that bombshell seconds before the battle starts. Still knows nothing haha.

I've come too far to stop watching. Only 4 more episodes, no sense in stopping now.
Nah. If you're not enjoying something anymore, just switch it off. I quit True Blood a few eps into the last season.

Did anyone else roll their eyes when Jaime survived?

He killed Deany's father, he was recently was leading an army which she was planning to attack and his relationship with the Starks was never amazing.

Then there's Bran. He sat around for waiting for Jaime but when it came down to it, he didn't hold a grudge.

I feel like the show used to make the hard choices to keep shit realistic in the past but now they'll put logic to the side to keep fans happy.
Thought the Jaime thing was fine. If Dany was just making the decision herself under normal circumstances, yeah he should have been toast. But these are far from normal circumstances and she was making a concerted effort to extend the olive branch to Sansa, meaning she may have accepted Sansa's endorsement via Brienne in this case when she otherwise might not have.

Reckon Jaime's escape into the suddenly deep water last season was a far worse example of plot armor whatever you wanna call it.

...
I just want to back my stance that Jaime should have been killed at that court scene by saying that Randyll and Dickon Tarly got burned alive by Daeny for not bending the knee despite Tyrion sticking up for them. Jaime fought on the same side as Randyll and Dickon AND killed Daeny's father but was pardoned because Brienne stuck up for him. You'd think Tyrion's would mean more than Brienne's... and then there's the father thing.

Anyway, just putting it out there.
Main difference there is Jaime was bending the knee, the Tarly's refused.

You honestly think the writing is good?

You haven't rolled your eyes at any of the dialogue so far?
Much like other recent seasons really - some good or great, some cringey and bad.

Best episode since Winds of Winter and whilst some of the criticisms are understandable, I think they're mostly just asking this show to work on a level that doesn't really exist anywhere in this medium, let alone for a 'fantasy' series.
This :thumbsu:

Show is a victim of its own standard to a degree. Story was considered un-filmable, first 3 or 4 seasons were near flawless television - now that it isn't quite as good as it was early days for a number of reasons, people label it trash/tripe - I don't think so lol.
 
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bourbons

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Why does anyone care which Targ has claims to the throne? Didnt the Targs lose all claims to the throne when the 7 kingdoms revoluted and murdered the Mad King? Isnt the true heir to the throne now a Barathoen bastard putting Arya in a prime position to be queen?
Right of conquest is still a thing, simple as that I'd say.
 

Seeds

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Interesting that a lot of people hated that episode while heaps also loved it. I probably fall somewhere somewhere in the middle, some great moments with loved characters that will add more depth to the inevitable destruction next week... but in a final season with 6 episodes I'm not sure we needed 2 of those type of episodes running 50ish minutes each. Could definitely have got done what they needed to with one ep of 70ish minutes.

No issues for mine with the Arya sex scene. Understand the watching her grow up on-screen angle but as others have said, deserved and logical development for the character, she ain't a kid anymore. And haven't people been saying the show has lost its edge or shock factor? Seems like they can't win lol. It was definitely a body double if that helps :D

Tormund's story :oops:. So good.

Great timing by Jon, drop that bombshell seconds before the battle starts. Still knows nothing haha.



Nah. If you're not enjoying something anymore, just switch it off. I quit True Blood a few eps into the last season.



Thought the Jaime thing was fine. If Dany was just making the decision herself under normal circumstances, yeah he should have been toast. But these are far from normal circumstances and she was making a concerted effort to extend the olive branch to Sansa, meaning she may have accepted Sansa's endorsement via Brienne in this case when she otherwise might not have.

Reckon Jaime's escape into the suddenly deep water last season was a far worse example of plot armor whatever you wanna call it.



Main difference there is Jaime was bending the knee, the Tarly's refused.



Much like other recent seasons really - some good or great, some cringey and bad.



This :thumbsu:

Show is a victim of its own standard to a degree. Story was considered un-filmable, first 3 or 4 seasons were near flawless television - now that it isn't quite as good as it was early days for a number of reasons, people label it trash/tripe - I don't think so lol.
The show has never been flawless tv. It never filmed battles and was way to slow and drawn out in the beginning. Now its timing is better and it has good battles but the dialogue is poor, it no longer has genuine shock surprises and some plots are completely irrational.
 
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So then why would lineage matter? Shouldnt spoils go to the winner of conquest if that is true? Dany could just take the throne.
You're technically correct but it's also largely about using that lineage to inspire others to join your cause. If someone could trump her lineage claim it could fracture her supporter base...particulary when plenty of those supporters are Northeners or have been Stark allies in the past.

It could also lead to future uprisings once she has the throne.
 

sorted

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Not for an accomplished writer with suitable time to prepare I daresay.

The showrunners D&D have had years to prepare for this season. They knew precisely how much GRRM material they had, and when it would run out. GOT has for many seasons been a huge budget HBO production - they could have easily afforded to hire quality writers to complete scripts for the final two seasons but instead I assume D&D refused to cede creative control so instead they've been written by this pair of C-grade Hollywood hacks.

The result? Characters who once had great depth who now feel wafer thin, and are given nothing to do except act as background scenery or spit out the occasional tepid line to remind us they exist. Scenes which should be brimming with heartfelt emotion where character interactions feel stilted and forced, plot threads which end in the most unsatisfyingly brief manner possible. Frankly this series deserved far better. Of course the masses will lap it up regardless, something D&D absolutely knew and banked on before serving up this tripe they knew we'd collectively swallow.

The good news is next episode we have a battle- the one thing this pair of writing mediocrities does well, because battles aren't reliant on good writing at all.
I agree that the writing in season 8 is not up to previous levels so far. But I don't understand your point about the choice of writers. Benioff and Weiss are overseeing the script as usual and have written the last four episodes. Cogman, who has written plenty before, wrote s8e2. I think like a poor first half of footy we'll forget it by the final siren if s8e3 and the rest are mind-blowing.

Awesome battles sequences still need to be well written but they are probably more reliant on the direction. Miguel Sapochnik directs episodes 3 and 5. He has previously directed Battle of the Bastards and Winds of Winter, two of the most epic episodes of the show so far.

Maybe hold judgment until the show has finished. Episode three is 82 minutes long (the longest episode of the series), episode four is 78 minutes and the last two are each 80 minutes. There's heaps of good stuff to come.
 

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Underarm

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Why does anyone care which Targ has claims to the throne? Didnt the Targs lose all claims to the throne when the 7 kingdoms revoluted and murdered the Mad King? Isnt the true heir to the throne now a Barathoen bastard putting Arya in a prime position to be queen?
Not really. The rightful king or queen is whoever can unite the kingdoms/bring peace to the continent that's been in turmoil for 10 years.

Dany has the biggest army so she has the best chance of doing that, but she won't be able to do it alone. If she gets the North on her side, then the Vale and Riverlands will join her as well ehich would be enough to take kingslandong and defeat Cersei
 

A Cut Above

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Why does anyone care which Targ has claims to the throne? Didnt the Targs lose all claims to the throne when the 7 kingdoms revoluted and murdered the Mad King? Isnt the true heir to the throne now a Barathoen bastard putting Arya in a prime position to be queen?
Robert usurped the crown from the rightful king so from that perspective the last male Targaryen heir holds the strongest claim.

Which brings me to my intense dissatisfaction with the treatment of one of GOT's most important plot points - Jon discovering his true heritage, and how it affects his relationship with Daenerys. What the show-runners gave us was an all-to-brief scene with Sam in which Jon gives us a facial reaction to the news and a short line that hints at resentment towards his father for hiding the truth, then, before anything of serious weight or import is discussed between them.... the scene ends.

Similarly when Jon breaks the news to his aunt there is a facial reaction from Daenerys, she attempts to discredit the news before Jon merely utters "its true Dany" (enough to instantly dispel all her doubts on such a weighty matter!) and she then states this would make him the heir to the throne and we get a facial reaction from Jon..... and then the scene ends.
Least amount of dialogue possible, least amount of meaningful interaction between the two characters possible, nothing genuinely discussed or resolved - to one of the most vitally important plot points of the whole bloody show. No wonder almost every scene has become vapid and emotionally unsatisfying.




To those who would cheerfully in their ignorance ignore such matters I would posit this -

Imagine you are watching a Shakespeare play. 7/8ths of the way through the entire cast is trampled by elephants and are immediately replaced by a fresh set of actors with different faces.

You would immediately recognize each character despite their new faces, since each character is masterfully encapsulated in the script. Difference is in GOT, the dialogue has markedly changed and you now mostly recognize the characters through the faces of the actors playing them. Some like Varys & Tyrion have become mere husks of their former selves.
 

SM

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I don't agree at all. I thought that episode 2 was beautifully written and scripted.

Btw, the episode was scripted by Bryan Cogman, not either of the two Davids.
Was coming here to point this out as I assumed there'd be tears from the usual suspects.

Thought it was another fantastic episode. People seem to just want constant action as if it would have the same impact without the emotional depth.
 

Richard Pryor

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What claims does the baby of Ayra and Gendy have if indeed she is up the duff. It's a Baratheon /Stark baby. You never know ,there may be an episode where a few years pass.
As a bastard Gendry is 100% irrelevant to the succession in a medieval setting imo. Would be anachronistic to have him or his descendant have significance
 

Bomberboyokay

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Thread starter #1,667
The show has never been flawless tv. It never filmed battles and was way to slow and drawn out in the beginning. Now its timing is better and it has good battles but the dialogue is poor, it no longer has genuine shock surprises and some plots are completely irrational.
Can't tell if you ever liked the show or whether it's your The Walking Dead. I gave up The Walking Dead in season 3.
 

Strange Cat

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Robert usurped the crown from the rightful king so from that perspective the last male Targaryen heir holds the strongest claim.

Which brings me to my intense dissatisfaction with the treatment of one of GOT's most important plot points - Jon discovering his true heritage, and how it affects his relationship with Daenerys. What the show-runners gave us was an all-to-brief scene with Sam in which Jon gives us a facial reaction to the news and a short line that hints at resentment towards his father for hiding the truth, then, before anything of serious weight or import is discussed between them.... the scene ends.

Similarly when Jon breaks the news to his aunt there is a facial reaction from Daenerys, she attempts to discredit the news before Jon merely utters "its true Dany" (enough to instantly dispel all her doubts on such a weighty matter!) and she then states this would make him the heir to the throne and we get a facial reaction from Jon..... and then the scene ends.
Least amount of dialogue possible, least amount of meaningful interaction between the two characters possible, nothing genuinely discussed or resolved - to one of the most vitally important plot points of the whole bloody show. No wonder almost every scene has become vapid and emotionally unsatisfying.




To those who would cheerfully in their ignorance ignore such matters I would posit this -

Imagine you are watching a Shakespeare play. 7/8ths of the way through the entire cast is trampled by elephants and are immediately replaced by a fresh set of actors with different faces.

You would immediately recognize each character despite their new faces, since each character is masterfully encapsulated in the script. Difference is in GOT, the dialogue has markedly changed and you now mostly recognize the characters through the faces of the actors playing them. Some like Varys & Tyrion have become mere husks of their former selves.
Yum yum
 

bourbons

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So then why would lineage matter? Shouldnt spoils go to the winner of conquest if that is true? Dany could just take the throne.
Exactly how it works, unless I’m missing something.

Getting together an army capable of toppling the current king and disrupting normal succession doesn’t just happen though, needs to be some catalyst that would unite people to your cause - like the mad king going crazy and burning people. Also more likely to get support in that if you actually do have some historical claim, as Danny does.
 
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Feels out of place with the whole cold-blooded almost inhuman assassin character path they seemed to be going with).
I thought it did fit, it wasn't lovey-dovey it was more 'I'm gonna die so I want to tick this off the list of things I've tried' type thing. Gendry was suitably attractive and she liked him so she goes for it. Even afterward it wasn't all cuddly it was back to business look on her face.

Thats my take anyway.
 

bourbons

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The show has never been flawless tv. It never filmed battles and was way to slow and drawn out in the beginning. Now its timing is better and it has good battles but the dialogue is poor, it no longer has genuine shock surprises and some plots are completely irrational.
I said near flawless, which I reckon is backed up by measures such as IMDB ratings and the yearly Emmy sweep.
 

bourbons

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Robert usurped the crown from the rightful king so from that perspective the last male Targaryen heir holds the strongest claim.

Which brings me to my intense dissatisfaction with the treatment of one of GOT's most important plot points - Jon discovering his true heritage, and how it affects his relationship with Daenerys. What the show-runners gave us was an all-to-brief scene with Sam in which Jon gives us a facial reaction to the news and a short line that hints at resentment towards his father for hiding the truth, then, before anything of serious weight or import is discussed between them.... the scene ends.

Similarly when Jon breaks the news to his aunt there is a facial reaction from Daenerys, she attempts to discredit the news before Jon merely utters "its true Dany" (enough to instantly dispel all her doubts on such a weighty matter!) and she then states this would make him the heir to the throne and we get a facial reaction from Jon..... and then the scene ends.
Least amount of dialogue possible, least amount of meaningful interaction between the two characters possible, nothing genuinely discussed or resolved - to one of the most vitally important plot points of the whole bloody show. No wonder almost every scene has become vapid and emotionally unsatisfying.
Reckon you're selling the Jon-Sam scene well short - after Jon talks about Ned hiding the truth, Sam (correctly) frames it as Ned protecting his family and honoring his oath to his dying sister. This is obviously in-line with Ned's character, cementing the truth of the matter for Jon. Not sure what else is needed in that particular scene?

The Jon-Dany scene happens like it does purely due to convention - white walkers aside, its obviously the thing that is going to have the most influence on the end game, the potential resolution of which will carry through right to the end. Its supposed to be unresolved/unsatisfying - were you expecting them to hash it all out right there and then, shake hands and move on? Just not how TV works.

And in all seriousness, "its true" actually is enough for Dany - because it came from Jon. A few scenes prior she specifically states that she trusts him and knows he is a man of his word.

To those who would cheerfully in their ignorance ignore such matters I would posit this -

Imagine you are watching a Shakespeare play. 7/8ths of the way through the entire cast is trampled by elephants and are immediately replaced by a fresh set of actors with different faces.

You would immediately recognize each character despite their new faces, since each character is masterfully encapsulated in the script. Difference is in GOT, the dialogue has markedly changed and you now mostly recognize the characters through the faces of the actors playing them. Some like Varys & Tyrion have become mere husks of their former selves.
Edit: I don't think anyone's calling it Shakespeare are they?

Anyway, gotta disagree with this too - just off the top of my head, GoT characters I'm pretty confident I would pick just on their dialogue/actions this season if the actors were replaced and with no other context - Jon, Dany, Arya, Tormund, Davos, Jorah.
 
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