TV Game of Thrones Season VII

Who will die next week?


  • Total voters
    97

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Posts
60,177
Likes
70,201
Location
The Throne
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Other Teams
Arsenal, Gold City Royals
Moderator #1,602
The last we saw of her in episode 2, he was holding a sword to her throat as Reek jumped ship.

In Episode 3, we repeatedly saw her walking along behind his horse, with a rope tied around her neck. We haven't seen her physically beaten, if that's what you're asking.
Sorry, yeah, I meant before the part where Theon jumped ship. I don't remember if they actually showed her capture or the first we knew she was caught was when Theon saw it.

I'd be as surprised if she was shifty as I would be to see her get gutted next week... I don't see the payoff in keeping her alive.
 
Joined
Apr 8, 2005
Posts
1,474
Likes
1,180
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Western Bulldogs
Bullshit artist he may be, he's certainly bombastic, and almost as big a self-promoter as Sam Dastyari. But the fact remains that he clearly targeted Ellaria & the Sand Snake, and was clearly referring to them when he promised his gift to Cersei.
Not necessarily. He left it vague so it could be anything. Most people were speculating it would be Tyrion
 

bourbons

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Posts
7,931
Likes
4,829
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Well played team Lannister, comprehensively outcoaching Dany in the early going and cutting her midfield to pieces. Big forwards win finals though and Dany still got the 3 biggest in the land, reckon she'll take the late Olenna's advice and swing them into action next week.

Speaking of, QoT went out like a boss, what else would you expect really. He really was a **** wasn't he haha nearly fell off my chair.

One thing though - where is the Tyrell army? I get that Olenna said fighting wasn't their forte but they're still one of the most powerful houses in Westeros, surely they'd have a decent contingent guarding all that gold, or engaged elsewhere.

Didn't mind the Dany and Jon scene, worth it just for the introductions/titles (or lack of for Jon lol).

Euron is growing on me, hated the casting last season but the character is coming along. Classic scene with Jamie in the throne room.

I don't think he is certain. But might have put 2 and 2 together.
Where would he get the 2 and 2 from? Don't see how anyone besides Bran and Howland Reed would have any idea whatsover re: Jon Snow.

Unless you'd been fiddling with your phone or something for the entire episode you'd quite clearly know who the dad was.
Its heavily implied I guess who the father is and I subscribe to that theory but it hasn't been spelled out yet. Otherwise why have Lyanna's whisper to Ned not heard by the audience.

We did see the Silence in the middle of the fleet, when Grey Worm was looking down from Casterly Rock. Euron is there, in person.

As for teleportation... It's a hell of a long way, but the Unsullied's fleet had a pretty decent head start - courtesy of his detour to King's Landing. Given that he had to sail the same route, it's doubtful that he would have caught up and arrived at the crucial moment as he did.
Grey Worm and the Unsullied had never seen Casterly Rock before, possible that they spent some time scouting once they got there which would give Euron some extra time to catch up. At the very least they'd have to find Tyrion's secret entrance undetected, not a big issue that Euron got there in time.

It may have been hubris & ego - but it's becoming increasingly obvious that there's a spy within Dany's camp (Missandei being the most likely candidate). It's a lot harder to win a war if the enemy has a spy in your war room, warning them about your every move.

I want to know where the Lannisters suddenly found all these troops, and what happened to the Tyrell's army? Robb Stark had pretty much annihilated all of the Lanister armies, except for the forces they had in Kings Landing. They were seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel until he was taken out by the Freys. All of a sudden they now have an army at Casterly Rock, which is big enough to take out the Tyrells?

Then we look at the Tyrells... Some of their forces were taken out when Cersei blew up Baelor's Sept in Kings Landing. However, The Reach is the most populous kingdom of Westeros, with the biggest army. They should have had more than enough troops remaining to take on the Lannister forces at Highgarden.

I'm not calling this a major plot hole - not like the 3D printing of Euron's fleet, or teleporting Sand Snakes - but it does raise questions...
Jamie mentioned during the ep that the bulk of the Lannister army his father built still remains or words to that effect.

I agree about the Tyrells though. Could have sworn they were mentioned as a factor a few eps ago, now they're somehow a complete non-entity despite having massive stores of gold, would like to know where their personnel are if not at Highgarden.

You do realise that you're making my point for me? Grey Worm is long gone by the time that Jon arrives, yet Euron is still on the East Coast of Westeros, at Kings Landing. Grey Worm has a massive head start on Euron, which is why it's so hard to accept that Euron's fleet would get there when it did.

...

I know it takes months for the Unsullied to sail all the way around Westeros to Casterly Rock. It takes just as many months for Euron's fleet to make the same voyage. The Unsullied start their voyage long before Euron, who makes a detour to Kings Landing on the way... yet somehow they arrive at almost the same time?
I don't think we know for a fact that the Unsullied start their journey 'long before' Euron.. couldn't they have sailed after the Greyjoys/Sand Snakes? Would kinda make sense in terms of Dany getting the news of their demise too ie. the Unsullied see some the wreckage from Euron's attack and send a boat back to Dany with the news.

That would mean Euron could be back in KL dropping off Ellaria round about the same time the Unsullied sail, meaning he'd only be a day or 2 behind.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
39,732
Likes
19,768
Location
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
I don't think we know for a fact that the Unsullied start their journey 'long before' Euron.. couldn't they have sailed after the Greyjoys/Sand Snakes? Would kinda make sense in terms of Dany getting the news of their demise too ie. the Unsullied see some the wreckage from Euron's attack and send a boat back to Dany with the news.

That would mean Euron could be back in KL dropping off Ellaria round about the same time the Unsullied sail, meaning he'd only be a day or 2 behind.
Grey Worm told Missandei that he was leaving in the morning, just before they got naked. He was long gone by the time the events of Ep3 began to unfold.
 

GPW1

Club Legend
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Posts
1,883
Likes
2,752
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Not necessarily. He left it vague so it could be anything. Most people were speculating it would be Tyrion
Also plenty of speculation the gift was Dragon Binder. Only hindsight allows you to say Euron was clearly referring to Ellaria and Bad Pussy Sand Snake as Cersei's gift.
 

Sterge

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Posts
33,488
Likes
52,952
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Avs/Pats/Chelsea
Moderator #1,610
Also plenty of speculation the gift was Dragon Binder. Only hindsight allows you to say Euron was clearly referring to Ellaria and Bad Pussy Sand Snake as Cersei's gift.
If they haven't mentioned that in the show yet it would be seriously jumping the shark to suddenly go 'oh by the way look what i have'
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Vader

Sith Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
39,732
Likes
19,768
Location
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
assuming that everything in ep 2 took place before everything in ep 3
Here's what we do know...
  • The scene with Missandei & Grey Worm was almost immediately after the big war cabinet, where Tyrion's grand master plan was explained. Grey Worm says that he's leaving the next day. This scene isn't explicitly stated as being the same day as the war cabinet, but that's what we're led to believe.
  • The Unsullied depart sometime between the war cabinet meeting, and the arrival of Jon Snow.
  • Yara's fleet (with Ellaria & Sand Snakes) also departs between the war cabinet, and the arrival of Jon Snow.
  • Euron attacks Yara's fleet at the end of Ep 2, and he triumphantly parades his captives through Kings Landing in Ep 3. He doesn't leave for Casterly Rock until after he's been appointed Admiral of the Fleet.
We don't know whether Yara's fleet sailed first, or the Unsullied sailed first. It's reasonable to think that the Unsullied left before Yara, because they have a lot further to sail - Casterly Rock is a lot further away than Sunspear. If that's the case, then their head start on Euron is quite significant - there's the delay to Yara's departure, and the time taken for Euron's detour to Kings Landing. While this is reasonable, it's not spelled out explicitly, and it may not actually be the case.

The Silence is the biggest ship in the fleet, and carries far more sail than any of the other ships. I have no problems believing that the Silence could catch up with the Unsullied's fleet, even if they left months earlier. Unfortunately, the same does not hold true for the rest of Euron's fleet. The rest of them are no faster than the Unsullied's ships, so the only logical explanation for their arrival in time for the Battle of Casterly Rock is teleportation.
 

bourbons

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Posts
7,931
Likes
4,829
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
She may well have been an undercover operative the whole time. Davos pretty much outed her, showing that her supposed background in Naath was nothing but made up bullshit. What else is she hiding?

Having a spy in Dany's camp would go a long way towards explaining Euron's ability to intercept Yara's fleet, and their knowledge of the attack on Casterly Rock. If there is a spy, then Missandei is by far the most likely candidate.
Hmm I didn't get that at all from Davos' interaction with her. Looking back though there had to be a reason for them to have that little interaction on screen so you could well be right.

For now I still don't think there is a spy - interception of Yara's fleet and subsequent knowledge of Casterly Rock attack both easily explainable without needing spy.

The more I think about it, the more the spy theory makes sense - even if it's not Missandei (and I still think it is).

Think about the attack on Yara's ship...

Euron promised Cersei that he would return with a gift so valuable that she'd accept his offer of marriage. Everyone thought he was just a bullshit artist, until the events of episode 2 unfolded.

Euron specifically targeted Yara's ship, with the primary objective of capturing Ellaria & her Sand Snake daughter. They were the gift that he promised Cersei, implying that he knew he'd be able to capture them - before he left Kings Landing, and before they left Dragonstone. Everyone else on the ship was killed, other than Yara, Ellaria, the Sand Snake, and Theon (who only survived by reverting to Reek and jumping overboard). The other sand snakes were killed, but Ellaria & daughter were taken alive.

It's plausible that he could have predicted them sailing to Dorne, and the route they were taking - and thus the intercept is plausible without the existence of a spy. However, he's not going to make a big bold promise to Cersei if he doesn't know for certain that he's going to be able to keep it. This is what makes the spy theory far more likely than not.
Although.. this is a reasonable point. But Lance Uppercut makes a good point above about Missandei genuinely loving Grey Worm. Now I don't know what to think lol

Whilst I still doubt it immensely I must admit after reading the thread I had a very hard think last night about how the Lannister's knew about the plot against Casterly Rock and tbh I couldn't come up with much.
Survivors captured/tortured from Euron's naval battle?

Grey Worm told Missandei that he was leaving in the morning, just before they got naked. He was long gone by the time the events of Ep3 began to unfold.
Sure, but the Greyjoys/Sandsnakes could have already been sailing at the time they were getting naked. For all we know they left straight after the meeting with Dany.
 
Last edited:

GPW1

Club Legend
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Posts
1,883
Likes
2,752
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
If they haven't mentioned that in the show yet it would be seriously jumping the shark to suddenly go 'oh by the way look what i have'
I don't disagree with that, just pointing out that there were a number of things being thrown around as being the gift after the first episode.
 

Father Jack

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Posts
17,576
Likes
10,205
Location
between hope and reality
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Tottenham Hotspur FC
Here's what we do know...
  • The scene with Missandei & Grey Worm was almost immediately after the big war cabinet, where Tyrion's grand master plan was explained. Grey Worm says that he's leaving the next day. This scene isn't explicitly stated as being the same day as the war cabinet, but that's what we're led to believe.
  • The Unsullied depart sometime between the war cabinet meeting, and the arrival of Jon Snow.
  • Yara's fleet (with Ellaria & Sand Snakes) also departs between the war cabinet, and the arrival of Jon Snow.
  • Euron attacks Yara's fleet at the end of Ep 2, and he triumphantly parades his captives through Kings Landing in Ep 3. He doesn't leave for Casterly Rock until after he's been appointed Admiral of the Fleet.
We don't know whether Yara's fleet sailed first, or the Unsullied sailed first. It's reasonable to think that the Unsullied left before Yara, because they have a lot further to sail - Casterly Rock is a lot further away than Sunspear. If that's the case, then their head start on Euron is quite significant - there's the delay to Yara's departure, and the time taken for Euron's detour to Kings Landing. While this is reasonable, it's not spelled out explicitly, and it may not actually be the case.

The Silence is the biggest ship in the fleet, and carries far more sail than any of the other ships. I have no problems believing that the Silence could catch up with the Unsullied's fleet, even if they left months earlier. Unfortunately, the same does not hold true for the rest of Euron's fleet. The rest of them are no faster than the Unsullied's ships, so the only logical explanation for their arrival in time for the Battle of Casterly Rock is teleportation.
I think we can assume that not much time was lost returning to KL, and that Euron's superior seamanship enabled him to be hot on the Unsullied heels as opposed to requiring teleportation, which is only an explanation if you are going out of your way to find plot holes, which you are.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
39,732
Likes
19,768
Location
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
I think we can assume that not much time was lost returning to KL, and that Euron's superior seamanship enabled him to be hot on the Unsullied heels as opposed to requiring teleportation, which is only an explanation if you are going out of your way to find plot holes, which you are.
A lot depends on how much head start the Unsullied had. His return to KL probably added a week to the lead.

I can see the Silence making up that difference. I can't see the other ships in his fleet doing the same.
 

The Prosecutor

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Posts
9,377
Likes
11,405
AFL Club
Essendon
Missandei clearly genuinely loves Grey Worm. Hard to imagine she would happily be passing on information that leads to him quite possibly getting killed as a direct result of her actions.

I can't see it whatsoever on so many levels
One could assume though that she passed on that the Dany's forces would attack Casterly Rock in order to make sure that there was little in the way of defensive resistance for Greyworm.

I think Missandei has some greater purpose in this story, but being a spy I'm not convinced about.
 

bourbons

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Posts
7,931
Likes
4,829
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
A lot depends on how much head start the Unsullied had. His return to KL probably added a week to the lead.

I can see the Silence making up that difference. I can't see the other ships in his fleet doing the same.
No way its just around the corner, coupla days at most. Which is even further negated if the Greyjoys/Snakes left Dragonstone before the Unsullied which is entirely possible.
 

Starburns_

Super Moderator
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Posts
47,864
Likes
89,313
Location
Out searching for Pokemon
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Colts, Stars, The Exers
Moderator #1,619
Where would he get the 2 and 2 from? Don't see how anyone besides Bran and Howland Reed would have any idea whatsover re: Jon Snow.
He's considered every possibility. ;)

He suggested to Sansa that Lyanna was never kidnapped a few seasons ago, Lyanna died of something not revealed, honourable Ned Stark comes back with a bastard child. It's hardly a stretch if he believes that Lyanna went by choice, Rhaegar killing her only fits if he also kidnapped her, so she had to die another way.

Its heavily implied I guess who the father is and I subscribe to that theory but it hasn't been spelled out yet. Otherwise why have Lyanna's whisper to Ned not heard by the audience.
Apparently there are a hell of a lot of show viewers who have no idea about the theory regarding Jon's parentage.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
39,732
Likes
19,768
Location
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
No way its just around the corner, coupla days at most. Which is even further negated if the Greyjoys/Snakes left Dragonstone before the Unsullied which is entirely possible.
That depends very much on where he made the intercept - could have been anywhere between Dragonstone & Sunspear. A couple of days each way is the minimum.
 

bourbons

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Posts
7,931
Likes
4,829
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
He's considered every possibility. ;)

He suggested to Sansa that Lyanna was never kidnapped a few seasons ago, Lyanna died of something not revealed, honourable Ned Stark comes back with a bastard child. It's hardly a stretch if he believes that Lyanna went by choice, Rhaegar killing her only fits if he also kidnapped her, so she had to die another way.
Hmm right. I had completely forgotten that he suggested to Sansa that Lyanna was never kidnapped etc. You're right, bloke like Littlefinger could put it together.
 

bourbons

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Posts
7,931
Likes
4,829
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
That depends very much on where he made the intercept - could have been anywhere between Dragonstone & Sunspear. A couple of days each way is the minimum.
I'm assuming Euron was camped out near Dragonstone to intercept the Greyjoys/SandSnakes (they know in ep1 Dany & co. were there) - that puts him pretty much still in Blackwater Bay.
 

Vader

Sith Lord
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Posts
39,732
Likes
19,768
Location
Canberra
AFL Club
Adelaide
Other Teams
Norwood, Adelaide Crows
I'm assuming Euron was camped out near Dragonstone to intercept the Greyjoys/SandSnakes (they know in ep1 Dany & co. were there) - that puts him pretty much still in Blackwater Bay.
It's an assumption... I'm not sure that it's a good one (I'm equally unsure that it's a bad one).
 
Top Bottom