Analysis Gameplan

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If Adams plays as a lock down back and isn't relied upon for rebound and we give guys like Maynard and De Goey more midfield time instead of guys like Greenwood then I'm cool with it.
 

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NT.Thunder said:
Adams coming out of defence with those silky foot skills, can't wait to see how that pans out!

Why change role for a guy coming of his best season to date. I think defence needs work but surely not Adams.
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Adams came of the back of the square a lot in 2017.
 
jackcass said:
Adams came of the back of the square a lot in 2017.
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How'd that work for us?

Different coming off the back of the square and playing midfield and genuinely playing behind the ball. I'm not a fan of it that's all.
 
Carringbush2010 said:
I'd argue our list is less "traditional" than most in the current landscape, I don't see how having 1 or 2 KPF in a forward 6 mix should hamper our possession ability


Our ball winning ability is not an issue, it's disposal - ground wide. My theory is that the club will continue with the idea of swarm (outnumber at the contest) and spread (have outside run to recieve); the difference being better disposal - so we don't give it up when the intent is to find the outside runner (like a Wells for eg)

You could see this last year in games like gee, ade, gws we won ball (swarm) and used it well (spread) which was polar opposite to our crabbing style games going sideways and backwards like ess & car. In these games; because of poor disposal; we'd turnover and have run both ways more often than we should have and when we had it my theory is we had no confidence in our disposal hence the "crabbing" - keep possession


I don't see our possession rate currently is an issue, what is an issue is the disposal once we win it hence the strong focus on skills this off season. I'm confused as to what you mean by using talls up the ground, do you mean from the defensive half of the ground, using talls? We'll that'd work if we took every single mark coming out of F50 otherwise the oppositions more mobile mids would cut us up and have world record I50's. Also I'd argue that we've brought in the rebound / line breaking defenders (Murray comes to mind) to compliment our intercept markers in Howe and Shaz to avoid kicking to contests or at worst kick to contests where we outnumber
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Having 2 KPF shouldn't be a problem so long as they roam up and down the entire field. The idea, however, that forwards just stays forward doesn't belong in today's game anymore. To be a forward in today's game is to a kick up the field from the contest, regardless of where the contest is. So, if we have the ball deep in the back pocket, our forwards need to be on the defensive 50 arc. That's the shift. Which leads me to my other point about being better at the contested mark. Because when that kick comes out of the contest towards our forwards, if they are able to take the grab it opens up the entire field.

I totally agree with you that considering our ability to gain possession, our disposal is pretty average. We get hurt time and time again on turn overs. And this needs to improve because with poor disposal, no gameplan will work. But I would suggest that there is another side to the coin regarding disposal and this is where the gameplan implemented well is important - that there is a responsibility on the receiver to run to the right places. How many times have we bemoaned the fact that when entering our forward 50, the kicker's target was someone like Blair? Our disposal efficiency will improve out of sight if players are running to space, or are having space created to run into. It is much easier to hit a target. It was one of the things I loved about Hawthorn. Their instinctive running without the ball made their kicking game so beautiful to watch. But they could run instinctively because they had absolute faith in their teammates to get it to them. If we had that kind of confidence - that our marking prowess and contested ball winning ability was reliable, then our run without the ball becomes dangerous. You'll see our disposal efficiency blossom.

Of course, if our talls don't take their marks we are susceptible to rebound. But I'm a simple guy - if you know the kick is going to a big guy on the defensive 50, then the little guys get numbers to the contest. Won't always work. But we won't always drop the mark either.
 
Gambit78 said:
Having 2 KPF shouldn't be a problem so long as they roam up and down the entire field. The idea, however, that forwards just stays forward doesn't belong in today's game anymore. To be a forward in today's game is to a kick up the field from the contest, regardless of where the contest is. So, if we have the ball deep in the back pocket, our forwards need to be on the defensive 50 arc. That's the shift. Which leads me to my other point about being better at the contested mark. Because when that kick comes out of the contest towards our forwards, if they are able to take the grab it opens up the entire field.
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We did see this a lot in 2017 with Darcy & others pushing up to the wing (and further) when the ball was in D50 - some would argue that our forwards pushed up too far hence get we outnumbered in our attacking half or "crab" (to draw out opp defenders) waiting for the cavalry to get into target position from wing/D50 to F50 i:e running both ways.

Gambit78 said:
I totally agree with you that considering our ability to gain possession, our disposal is pretty average. We get hurt time and time again on turn overs. And this needs to improve because with poor disposal, no gameplan will work. But I would suggest that there is another side to the coin regarding disposal and this is where the gameplan implemented well is important - that there is a responsibility on the receiver to run to the right places.
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Excellent! This is where I theorize that the running receiver has been either A/ confused on the finer details of the plan or B/ The opposition coaches has worked it out and set up to outnumber / guard space in the critical area or C/ poor disposal from the ball winner (Adams for eg) and turnover ensues - with A/ and C/ being more likely

Gambit78 said:
Hawthorn. Their instinctive running without the ball made their kicking game so beautiful to watch. But they could run instinctively because they had absolute faith in their teammates to get it to them. If we had that kind of confidence - that our marking prowess and contested ball winning ability was reliable, then our run without the ball becomes dangerous. You'll see our disposal efficiency blossom.
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76woodenspooners said:
That moment you realise TG watches the half time Auskick kids thinking it’s the main event.

#everythingnowmakessense

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;)
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For everything else, MasterCard
 
legendstatus said:
The reason Hocking came on board was to be that hard edge coach that sets him apart from Harvey & Sanderson. He also has a good defensive mind. Clearly the focus this year is going to be run and carry from the back flanks. Pies really hoping we get a lot of games out of Elliott, Fasolo, Wells, Greenwood and the lines of Wills, Sier, Maynard & JDG blossom this year.
On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
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Think Hocking also avoids jargon and fluffy communication which I suspect might have been a problem previously. Do you mean Hocking is "hard edged" with the players, other coaches, game plan analysis, Ed (he prob needs it :)), everybody? Just asking.... Aren't Harvey and Sanderson hard edged enough (with whoever)?
 
NT.Thunder said:
How'd that work for us?

Different coming off the back of the square and playing midfield and genuinely playing behind the ball. I'm not a fan of it that's all.
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How did any 1 aspect of our 2017 performance looked at in isolation work for us?
 
NT.Thunder said:
Adams coming out of defence with those silky foot skills, can't wait to see how that pans out!

Why change role for a guy coming of his best season to date. I think defence needs work but surely not Adams.
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I hope its more about Maynard and De Goey developing into better midfielders than it is about Adams playing his best football as a defender.
 

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Schraderbrau said:
I hope its more about Maynard and De Goey developing into better midfielders than it is about Adams playing his best football as a defender.
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Adams will do what Adams does.
 
Buckley is my hero said:
Isn't that what he did in 2017 and got him second place in the Copeland trophy?
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How did that work for US not for HIM.

I don't care if he comes from the back pocket, runs straight to the ball and follows it around like the true midfielder he is, my issue is if he genuinely transitions from a predominately played midfielder to a predominately played defender.

His strong body is needed at the contest, we don't need his s**t kicks coming out of defence IMO.
 
NT.Thunder said:
How did that work for US not for HIM.

I don't care if he comes from the back pocket, runs straight to the ball and follows it around like the true midfielder he is, my issue is if he genuinely transitions from a predominately played midfielder to a predominately played defender.

His strong body is needed at the contest, we don't need his s**t kicks coming out of defence IMO.
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And as I've previously asked you, how does any 1 aspect taken in isolation reflect on our 2017 performances? How does it preclude a different outcome in 2018?
 
NT.Thunder said:
Have a look at the Swiss cheese model
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Of course humans aren't inanimate objects so hopefully there's nothing accidental about our game plan in 2018.
 
NT.Thunder said:
How did that work for US not for HIM.

I don't care if he comes from the back pocket, runs straight to the ball and follows it around like the true midfielder he is, my issue is if he genuinely transitions from a predominately played midfielder to a predominately played defender.

His strong body is needed at the contest, we don't need his s**t kicks coming out of defence IMO.
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We've got about 8 guys who can play on the half back line. Is anybody seriously suggesting that we're going to add Pendlebury and Adams to the list? The talk as I understand it is about adding another defensive dimension to the way Adams and Pendlebury play, which again as I understand it, is a contributory influence coming from the assistant coaching of guys like Hocking. I don't think anybody is suggesting that we take Adams and Pendlebury away from the midfield. Also on that the matter of training the players to have a defensive mindset, since the last 6 premierships have been won that way, I wouldn't think that was a bad thing.
 
Buckley is my hero said:
We've got about 8 guys who can play on the half back line. Is anybody seriously suggesting that we're going to add Pendlebury and Adams to the list? The talk as I understand it is about adding another defensive dimension to the way Adams and Pendlebury play, which again as I understand it, is a contributory influence coming from the assistant coaching of guys like Hocking. I don't think anybody is suggesting that we take Adams and Pendlebury away from the midfield. Also on that the matter of training the players to have a defensive mindset, since the last 6 premierships have been won that way, I wouldn't think that was a bad thing.
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No, the talk that I've seen in several articles is more about role changes than defensive pressure, a snapshot from one such article below. Granted the media struggles for decent content this time of year and I do think common sense prevails but we are talking about a reactive football club ever searching for that silver bullet.

But again they're just articles
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