Society/Culture Gaming culture and the future

FireKraquora

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"Ninja", popular streamer of the game Fortnite, reportedly earns $600k USD per month. There are now many pro gamers earning significantly more than the highest paid AFL players.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninja_(streamer)

Do we need to be concerned by the popularity of these role models amongst the new generation, or is it just a typical case of the older generations being fearful of change?

I acknowledge that many athletes in the AFL and other sports are not particularly great as role models, and get up to all kinds of trouble. But I would argue that at least when kids try to become like their favorite footy player, they are getting outside and joining footy teams, exercising, and socialising with other people face to face.

I was recently linked to the subreddit "neckbeardnests" when discussing Jordan Peterson's simple "clean up your room" message. This community revolves around pictures of the trashed bedrooms of people suffering from depression or similar.

One thing that stood out to me was that the majority of these bedrooms seemed to feature a PC gaming setup.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NeckbeardNests/

4772074.jpg




The cheap dopamine rush supplied by gaming (or by using pornography - and the two seem to often go together) is thought to be addictive in a way similar to recreational drugs. They are also thought to lower motivation for people to succeed with traditional life goals, as their brains reward circuitry is already being satisfied.

https://www.abc.net.au/triplej/programs/hack/how-your-brain-gets-hooked-on-gaming/8401616

Then there is the issue of a "toxic culture" that seems rampant in the gaming industry.

"Swatting", where someone's location is discovered and an individual reports a significant crime at that location, prompting a SWAT team response, has become a common tactic used against online streamers. This tactic has resulted in a death on at least one occasion.



There are too many other examples to list, but a recent one was an Australian streamer who belted his pregnant wife a couple of times on a live stream. In another video he calls his toddler daughter a campaigner to her face, and tells her to "**** off".



A lot to unpack here. I believe that gaming can be part of a healthy lifestyle, and will inevitably grow larger going forward. But there are a few issues for parents to be aware of. Like alcohol, gaming can be utilised in a safe and responsible manner, but can also become a life-destroying addiction.
 

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jason pm

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#3
I can't see the attraction myself although I'm a cranky old (59) bastard, at 600k a month maybe I should try a new career.
 

Thomas2

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#4
I don't understand how people can game and sleep in comfort with all that shit on the desk, bed or floor.

It annoys and distracts me if I have one bit of rubbish nearby on my desk.
 
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Gaming is pretty cool though. I got stuck into Farming Simulator a while back... it was very realistic, I felt some aesthetic emotion that I have only ever felt in the reality of my day-to-day working life. Yeahup! ...actually I think I reviewed this in here...

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/farming-simulator-‘17.1196495/

...but anywho, the point is, people are like "...video games this" and "video games that...", but the truth of the matter is that these kids are learning an important life lesson; grinding (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_(gaming)). The closest aesthetic emotion one can experience in playing a video game that 1:1 reflects the emotions of a working-life comes as a result of grinding. This also has a physiological affect as well, I can barely tell the difference between one of my colleagues at 2.00PM on a Thursday afternoon and a person who has spent the last 56 hours straight grinding in a video game. They both have the same glazed-over stare.

This is the reason why Farming Simulator is the most hardcore game on the market, because it is 24-7 grind. The first time a player lines up their combine harvester against a field of ripened corn and they will most likely get a feeling in their loins, but 20 hours later... my God...
 
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Gaming is pretty cool though. I got stuck into Farming Simulator a while back... it was very realistic, I felt some aesthetic emotion that I have only ever felt in the reality of my day-to-day working life. Yeahup! ...actually I think I reviewed this in here...

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/farming-simulator-‘17.1196495/

...but anywho, the point is, people are like "...video games this" and "video games that...", but the truth of the matter is that these kids are learning an important life lesson; grinding (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_(gaming)). The closest aesthetic emotion one can experience in playing a video game that 1:1 reflects the emotions of a working-life comes as a result of grinding. This also has a physiological affect as well, I can barely tell the difference between one of my colleagues at 2.00PM on a Thursday afternoon and a person who has spent the last 56 hours straight grinding in a video game. They both have the same glazed-over stare.

This is the reason why Farming Simulator is the most hardcore game on the market, because it is 24-7 grind. The first time a player lines up their combine harvester against a field of ripened corn and they will most likely get a feeling in their loins, but 20 hours later... my God...
Actually... speaking of Farming Simulator... and this game does what I believe Warhol aimed to do with his anti-films, like the film of the guy sleeping. Now there was a master of the aesthetic emotion ...and yet... he didn’t quite capture the repetitious work to get to that 1:1 reflection of reality.

Anyone can ignore the film, but they can’t ignore their Massey Ferguson in Farming Simulator, because in the game their tractor will get stuck between two trees and then they’ll have to buy another tractor to rescue their stricken tractor. I’ve been there.
 

FireKraquora

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I don't understand how people can game and sleep in comfort with all that shit on the desk, bed or floor.

It annoys and distracts me if I have one bit of rubbish nearby on my desk.
Mental illness. My room was trashed for a while after my last breakup. You don't learn to accept the mess, it definitely still bothers you and makes the depression even worse. But motivation is at zero, so the self destruction continues and shit accumulates without getting tidied.
 

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https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ave-perplexing-hole-in-a-hot-u-s-labor-market

When people talk about the US's low unemployment rate, they don't tend to talk about the low employment rate for some sectors.

It seems like there could be a lot of American men sitting in front of screens, doing drugs, living off of their friends, families, and money from sale of assets. This was discussed on Planet America a while ago:

Weary of long days earning minimum wage, he quit his job in a pizzeria in June. He wants new employment but won’t take a gig he’ll hate. So for now, the Pittsburgh native and father to young children is living with his mother and training to become an emergency medical technician, hoping to get on the ladder toward a better life.​
Ten years after the Great Recession, 25- to 34-year-old men are lagging in the workforce more than any other age and gender demographic. About 500,000 more would be punching the clock today had their employment rate returned to pre-downturn levels. Many, like Butcher, say they’re in training. Others report disability. All are missing out on a hot labor market and crucial years on the job, ones traditionally filled with the promotions and raises that build the foundation for a career.​
 

FireKraquora

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I've encountered 3 women on tinder who listed their profession as "Twitch Streamer". I matched with one and we dated briefly. She had a part time retail job, and made about $250 a week on top of that from her stream. She said she plays games every night anyway, so she may as well build a following and get paid for it.

You can view Twitch streams for free, or voluntarily "subscribe" to a streamer and pay a monthly fee to get certain perks. She only averaged 20-30 viewers each night, but I think a high ratio of them were paying customers because they were trying to get into her pants.
 

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Scotland

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Saw "E-League" on Fox the other day. Two grown men, playing FIFA against each other, broadcast on TV.

What a time to be alive...
 

FireKraquora

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Saw "E-League" on Fox the other day. Two grown men, playing FIFA against each other, broadcast on TV.

What a time to be alive...
I heard that starcraft games were being televised in South Korea nearly 20 years ago. Pewdiepie started off streaming games and has a larger audience on youtube than any of the MSM outlets can dream of.

I read 5 years ago that the gaming industry produces more revenue than the film and music industries combined. I get the feeling that "Esports" will be more popular than real sports in 5 to 10 years. I don't like the idea, and I think it will greatly exacerbate the mental health crisis, but it's inevitable.
 

Sinjin Smith

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Saw "E-League" on Fox the other day. Two grown men, playing FIFA against each other, broadcast on TV.

What a time to be alive...
The only time I've watched gaming without playing is when there were six of us playing Goldeneye with the obvious four player max for multiplayer. Rockets in the basement for the win!! Always some campaigner would pick Oddjob.
 

Scotland

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The only time I've watched gaming without playing is when there were six of us playing Goldeneye with the obvious four player max for multiplayer. Rockets in the basement for the win!! Always some campaigner would pick Oddjob.
I'd be up for prime time Goldeneye. Proximity mines, bitches. Used to know the layout of Facility backwards. Would be lurking ready for the next person to re-spawn.
 

Jobe Watson

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Saw "E-League" on Fox the other day. Two grown men, playing FIFA against each other, broadcast on TV.
To be fair, that's basically all sport is anyway: a bunch of grown men (and women... it is 2019 after all) playing a silly little game for our entertainment.

I know older people who didn't grow up being immersed in video game culture will probably have a hard time understanding why Twitch streaming is so lucrative. I saw Jimmy Kimmell making fun of streamers, saying things like "who would want to watch someone else playing a game that they could play themselves?"; I bet that guy sits on his couch every weekend watching the Dodgers. It's just a new-age form of entertainment. Young people don't want to watch middle-age TV "personalities" anymore (unless its one of those vapid Kardashian goblins).

I think it's great that ordinary people can now make their own living without having to be a wage slave for some company that doesn't give a shit about them.
 
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Gethelred

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I'd be up for prime time Goldeneye. Proximity mines, bitches. Used to know the layout of Facility backwards. Would be lurking ready for the next person to re-spawn.
Once knew Temple like the back of my hand. Used to play, best of 10 kills, turbo, one shot kill, then screencheat like hell.

Can't play the thing now, motion sickness.
 

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#18
Chiropractors will be laughing with the amount of RSI issues that are continually appearing.

But if you can make a living out of it fair play, at least there not gambling.
 

Scotland

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To be fair, that's basically all sport is anyway: a bunch of grown men (and women... it is 2019 after all) playing a silly little game for our entertainment.
Not really the same thing.

As good as Lionel Messi is, I don't want to watch someone else playing as him in FIFA.
 

ShanDog

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To go to some of the OPs points regarding issues in the gaming world, it's definitely something that requires a culture change. We are really just in the first generation of online gamers and gaming. Sure, multiplayer has been around for a long time and even on the net, but with nowhere near the level of exposure, either through video streaming or organised competition. As bandwidth and processing power has increased, online gaming has taken on a totally new life and it really only started less than 10 years ago. Being in the online space, it also has to deal with the same issues regarding online behaviour that we've all had to learn about on the fly.

When the current generation of twitch streamers, professional gamers and online shitposters grows into middle age and are replaced by the next generation, there will likely be a new set of challenges that come with newer tech, but hopefully some lessons learned along the way. No more swatting and perhaps a more mature view of online participation.
 

FireKraquora

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To go to some of the OPs points regarding issues in the gaming world, it's definitely something that requires a culture change. We are really just in the first generation of online gamers and gaming. Sure, multiplayer has been around for a long time and even on the net, but with nowhere near the level of exposure, either through video streaming or organised competition. As bandwidth and processing power has increased, online gaming has taken on a totally new life and it really only started less than 10 years ago. Being in the online space, it also has to deal with the same issues regarding online behaviour that we've all had to learn about on the fly.

When the current generation of twitch streamers, professional gamers and online shitposters grows into middle age and are replaced by the next generation, there will likely be a new set of challenges that come with newer tech, but hopefully some lessons learned along the way. No more swatting and perhaps a more mature view of online participation.
Do you foresee problems arising from this culture, aside from the obvious "online toxic behaviour" stuff?

I've acknowledged that it may just be the usual fear of change between generations, but my concern is that an emphasis on people being sedentary and leaving their bedrooms less often is a step too far away from natural human behaviour.

Also, I have attempted to engage in a couple of online games including fortnite. In order to enjoy these, you need to spend countless hours on them to get over the learning curve and compete with the die-hard players. I gave up quickly after getting destroyed every time by youngsters with high pitched voices. Fortnite was marketed to younger people, with players as young as 10 becoming adept. I fail to see how this could not interfere with schooling and normal childhood development.
 

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Do you foresee problems arising from this culture, aside from the obvious "online toxic behaviour" stuff?

I've acknowledged that it may just be the usual fear of change between generations, but my concern is that an emphasis on people being sedentary and leaving their bedrooms less often is a step too far away from natural human behaviour.

Also, I have attempted to engage in a couple of online games including fortnite. In order to enjoy these, you need to spend countless hours on them to get over the learning curve and compete with the die-hard players. I gave up quickly after getting destroyed every time by youngsters with high pitched voices. Fortnite was marketed to younger people, with players as young as 10 becoming adept. I fail to see how this could not interfere with schooling and normal childhood development.
Everything in moderation is fine. No doubt there are addiction problems with games. I don't know if it's all that different to when TV became common. There's probably a more addictive element due to the interactive nature of games.

Studies consistently show that games are good for the brain and development. Again - as long as it isn't too much. Parents have a huge role to play in ensuring their kids aren't investing too much time on things like games and neglecting any physical activity.

I've played games since I was a kid so despite being over 30, I could pick up something like fortnite and not be shit within a short time frame. Not good, but not shit either. But the point being that I played them from probably the same age, and I only want to kill people IRL every few hours or so. Can't be that bad.
 

Richard Pryor

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Everything in moderation is fine. No doubt there are addiction problems with games. I don't know if it's all that different to when TV became common. There's probably a more addictive element due to the interactive nature of games.

Studies consistently show that games are good for the brain and development. Again - as long as it isn't too much. Parents have a huge role to play in ensuring their kids aren't investing too much time on things like games and neglecting any physical activity.

I've played games since I was a kid so despite being over 30, I could pick up something like fortnite and not be shit within a short time frame. Not good, but not shit either. But the point being that I played them from probably the same age, and I only want to kill people IRL every few hours or so. Can't be that bad.
The real addiction problems are with those mobile games the advertise all the time on tv. Have read they actually hired psychology consultants to help design them to be more addictive.

They're nothing more than slot machines that never pay out.
 

FireKraquora

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Everything in moderation is fine. No doubt there are addiction problems with games. I don't know if it's all that different to when TV became common. There's probably a more addictive element due to the interactive nature of games.

Studies consistently show that games are good for the brain and development. Again - as long as it isn't too much. Parents have a huge role to play in ensuring their kids aren't investing too much time on things like games and neglecting any physical activity.

I've played games since I was a kid so despite being over 30, I could pick up something like fortnite and not be shit within a short time frame. Not good, but not shit either. But the point being that I played them from probably the same age, and I only want to kill people IRL every few hours or so. Can't be that bad.
The difference between TV and modern gaming is that people weren't regularly striving to become professional "TV watchers" who could make millions a year, or have role models achieving the same. But I acknowledge again that my fear may well be unfounded.

I agree that games can be a healthy part of one's lifestyle when used in moderation. I don't believe that violent games lead to real life violence or anything like that.

Parents can easily control gaming addictions in their kids. Many seem not to, but that is a failure of them and not anyone else.

Another concern is the impact on young adults, no longer under restrictions from their parents. When I was dating a streamer I started watching some of her E-friends streams occasionally too. I remarked on how many of them were drinking or already clearly drunk during their streams. She said yeah, most of these people get into it because they have significant life problems. One mid 20s guy in particular was an unemployed alcoholic, and his stream was popular because people logged on to see his "drunken f***ery". I suppose it could be therapeutic to be able to have a "friendship group" and make a meagre income in such a position, but I feel that it may have exacerbated his problems.

Have you tried any of the current popular games? I grew up with games too, but the sheer speed and skill with which they are played at now by dedicated gamers blows my mind. Check out a youtube vid by one of the pros and see if you believe that you'd stand a chance against even the "mediocre" players involved.

The real addiction problems are with those mobile games the advertise all the time on tv. Have read they actually hired psychology consultants to help design them to be more addictive.

They're nothing more than slot machines that never pay out.
I have read that they are extremely profitable. The simple solution is to not allow children access to devices with any payment option logged on. If it is adults spending the coin, then... someone needs to at least redirect them to a game that is more complex and fulfilling. I can see how they could suck the elderly in, a la pokie machines.
 
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