Autopsy Garbage vs Hawthorn - Rd 13

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swanssince2002

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No fringe player like adding in Blakey or Stephens would have made a difference last night. When we get beaten this badly its a workrate and being second to the ball issue. Looked like we were on our feet with the 6 day rest vs their 13 day rest as well.

3 players working their butts off aint going to make a difference. Needs to be from everyone.
 
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WillHayward

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In hindsight Brand would have been a more logical inclusion. I rarely criticise the umpiring but I felt that it was horribly one sided. I think the hawks ended up with approx 15 frees. If you assume four frees equals a goal, then the umpires kept us out of the hunt.

That said, Heeney was very very poor in every facet.Rampe played the worst first half I have ever seen him play. He was awful. McCartin was ineffectual. Fox wasn’t great either. The ball wasn’t even coming in that quickly. This defensive performance was dead set ordinary. Coordination was missing. Buddy scragged all night. Hawks beat us across the park. Wish it was bye week this week...could have done with it.
Rampe is nearing the end and McCartin is not a key defender. He's too short.
He's a third tall interceptor.
We seriously need a new key defender.

Obvious hole in our list.

I think some on here are delusional about this and think McCartin and Melican will be enough.
 

zyzzbruh

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If you really think those guys would've made a difference last night then you are sorely mistaken.
Of course it would make a difference. When you replace 4 players with another 4, you have different minds and qualities out there. It transforms your structure. Sometimes that's all it takes. Some teams match up well on certain others purely based on structure.

2 simple thing like guldens composure and tackling + blakeys energy and ability to make it to a contest and crack in, could've literally been the straw that contested Hawthorns ability to rebound so easily, and in turn also stem their confidence which was oozing all night long.

We were vanilla last night and it can absolutely come down to a small handful of players to completely change that and flip a game on its head.
 

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rustycrate

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Just do not ever play both together at CCs unless they are having blinders. One CC between them last night. Bell looked more dangerous FFS.

Keep JPK's tog closer to 50-60%. Halve Parker's time between mids and fwds.
Rowbottom who I love was off his game. Playing on ball every game as a young mid. tiresime. New boy.
Florent I thought had a good game. Young though.
McInerney had a good game young though.
Bell had a good game very young though.
Amartey. Had a good game young though.
All these guys with another 25-50 games could change a game on their own.

Throw in Gulden, Warner, Campbell etc.
I would say we are young in the mids.
 

zyzzbruh

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No fringe player like adding in Blakey or Stephens would have made a difference last night. When we get beaten this badly its a workrate and being second to the ball issue. Looked like we were on our feet with the 6 day rest vs their 13 day rest as well.
Except someone like blakey can actually make it to a contest on time... Instead we had bell and Taylor plodding around. And it's not exactly the strength of guys like Florent and rowbum either. Mcinerney was the only one capable of creating any form of outnumbering by us.
 

Superstar swan

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For those who are more knowledgeable on the two’s, is amartey a genuinely long kick? Watching last night it seemed to me that he just flushed those two goals, the type of kicks where you just hit it in the right spot and it just sails
 

caesar88

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Of course it would make a difference. When you replace 4 players with another 4, you have different minds and qualities out there. It transforms your structure. Sometimes that's all it takes. Some teams match up well on certain others purely based on structure.

2 simple thing like guldens composure and tackling + blakeys energy and ability to make it to a contest and crack in, could've literally been the straw that contested Hawthorns ability to rebound so easily, and in turn also stem their confidence which was oozing all night long.

We were vanilla last night and it can absolutely come down to a small handful of players to completely change that and flip a game on its head.
Don't you get that when the whole team is off it's because the individuals within it are off? You don't think we could've done with Heeney's marking ability? Papley's energy around goals? Buddy launching goals from outside 50? Dawson's long kicking? McCartin's intercept marking? Lloyd's run and carry off half back?

We needed a lot of things last night. We have plenty of classy, exciting and dynamic players especially in the young group and they were in the team last night too. But just because you have class, excitement and dynamism, doesn't mean you'll always deliver it. Like I said, go back and watch the Gold Coast game where we had ALL of Errol, Braeden and Warner playing.

Errol was so off his game people were calling for him to be rested, Campbell was supposed to be rested and was only brought on early as medical sub, and Warner butchered it all day. Or the Freo game where Blakey was dreadful.

I rate all these kids and I'm not knocking them but they are not world-beaters and none are that good yet that they make a blip of difference to our team's structure and application when not playing. With all due respect I think you're making excuses for what was just a lousy failure to launch on our behalf last night.
 

Banyo Bloods

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Kennedy has been pretty good this year with some notable bad games a one year extension isn’t out of the ordinary. If he turns up next season with a significant drop off he won’t be a walk up start. Out of anyone on the list a one year contract is fair reward for what he still brings to the game and is still our most consistent mid and strongest player on the list.

Hardly fair to judge Taylor on a half of footy where he enters when every player around him is putrid and he’s supposed to be a star. It’s a team game and if you are not renowned for winning a stack of your own footy then you rely on feeding off and making space. Saw him in space a few times and not used. His goal attempt was something I didn’t mind as it showed confidence and footy IQ his shot sailing left after the baulk was disappointing but I encourage that kind of dare.

Bell seems to have some credits with the selectors but I just don’t see it. Whilst Blakey has rightly been sent back to work on his game even his bad games seem better than Bells best. (Marginally)

There just has to be a subconscious dislike of the Swans by some umps. We seemed to be doing alright with the umps earlier in the year but lately has raised a few eyebrows. Maybe when they were instructed to watch Franklins goal routine carefully there was a few other things mentioned like to avoid stoppages in Swans games we should lean towards play on following tackles. Sounds sooky writing that. Maybe umpiring just tends to match when we serve up crap football and make no mistake that was a slow disinterested effort and the reason we lost not the howlers that went against us.
 

swanssince2002

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Except someone like blakey can actually make it to a contest on time... Instead we had bell and Taylor plodding around. And it's not exactly the strength of guys like Florent and rowbum either. Mcinerney was the only one capable of creating any form of outnumbering by us.
Look I get it, we want Blakey to succeed and become a mainstay in the main side. All I'm saying is that last night was a work rate issue and that is a team thing. Half our side didn't show up in terms of effort. In hindsight, I think the selectors were unhappy about the things Blakey did in the Freo game, which for real deserved a long stint in the twos. And the selectors kept the same energy for Stephens as well.
 
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rustycrate

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Don't you get that when the whole team is off it's because the individuals within it are off? You don't think we could've done with Heeney's marking ability? Papley's energy around goals? Buddy launching goals from outside 50? Dawson's long kicking? McCartin's intercept marking? Lloyd's run and carry off half back?

We needed a lot of things last night. We have plenty of classy, exciting and dynamic players especially in the young group and they were in the team last night too. But just because you have class, excitement and dynamism, doesn't mean you'll always deliver it. Like I said, go back and watch the Gold Coast game where we had ALL of Errol, Braeden and Warner playing.

Errol was so off his game people were calling for him to be rested, Campbell was supposed to be rested and was only brought on early as medical sub, and Warner butchered it all day. Or the Freo game where Blakey was dreadful.

I rate all these kids and I'm not knocking them but they are not world-beaters and none are that good yet that they make a blip of difference to our team's structure and application when not playing. With all due respect I think you're making excuses for what was just a lousy failure to launch on our behalf last night.
Like I have been saying. We are young in the mids and these sorts of results will happen. Until we have depth of games into some of our young gun mids this will happen.
 

caesar88

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Like I have been saying. We are young in the mids and these sorts of results will happen. Until we have depth of games into some of our young gun mids this will happen.
I agree rusty that is why you won't see me criticising Rowbottom, but I think you are being a bit misleading when you use guys like Bell, Florent and McInerney, who had only 5 CBAs between them last night (all Florent) as evidence of our "young midfield". We were smashed at the coalface where two of our three most experienced players, and another of our leaders, were all night.
 

bedford

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The day before was the coldest day in Sydney for 37 years. We are a city of sooks when it comes to the weather. The people walking along the beach in layers of jackets and jumpers on a sunny winter's day when the temp is 18 degrees...😂
It was always going to be a small crowd due to the temp IMO.
Why do they become a member then . I remember the crowds in the 90's and 20's who were so loud , this mob now are no good in general .
 

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Parky79

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I’d bring Brand in for extended run . Has done nothing wrong. Can play on big boys, or smaller types (played on Silvagni). Would free up McCartin to intercept, or Rampe to play on their most dangerous small/mid forward. Charlie Dixon could really get hold of us. McCartin could also be swung forward if no match ups or we want to stretch.

I know will be scorned for this, but Blakey should come in and play permanent forward. He is a nightmare match up at his height and athleticism. I’d look to isolate him 1 on 1 as much as possible.

draft/recruiting = still need key position players. Reid is perfect, but not reliable. I’d throw the biggest offer we can at Darcy Moore.
 

bedford

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Of course it would make a difference. When you replace 4 players with another 4, you have different minds and qualities out there. It transforms your structure. Sometimes that's all it takes. Some teams match up well on certain others purely based on structure.

2 simple thing like guldens composure and tackling + blakeys energy and ability to make it to a contest and crack in, could've literally been the straw that contested Hawthorns ability to rebound so easily, and in turn also stem their confidence which was oozing all night long.

We were vanilla last night and it can absolutely come down to a small handful of players to completely change that and flip a game on its head.
BRAND should have played
 

rustycrate

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I agree rusty that is why you won't see me criticising Rowbottom, but I think you are being a bit misleading when you use guys like Bell, Florent and McInerney, who had only 5 CBAs between them last night (all Florent) as evidence of our "young midfield". We were smashed at the coalface where two of our three most experienced players, and another of our leaders, were all night.
My original post in my mind was about the team.
I was not only talking about last nights game.

I am talking about the future. Last nights game is relevant long term but we are so young in the mids.
You compare our mids on games per player to:
Richmond
Port Adelaide
Brisbane
Geelong
etc
Our team atm is young and full of ups and downs.
 

Banyo Bloods

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Why do they become a member then . I remember the crowds in the 90's and 20's who were so loud , this mob now are no good in general .
There is even a significant change from the 80’s and late 90’s to the atmosphere when watching a Swans game now. Maybe that’s everywhere to a degree but felt like the crowd used to get more involved with the chants and packing out the place.

I don’t get to see them live much living in Brisbane so can only judge watching TV

Must have been magic watching footy before my era when it was local every one bunkered in and not cost a fortune
 

caesar88

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My original post in my mind was about the team.
I was not only talking about last nights game.

I am talking about the future. Last nights game is relevant long term but we are so young in the mids.
You compare our mids on games per player to:
Richmond
Port Adelaide
Brisbane
Geelong
etc
Our team atm is young and full of ups and downs.
I can't agree rusty. Rowbottom and Warner, they are the only two young mids, Florent only rotates through there a couple of times a match. They are also the three who seem to provide any sort of movement in there as they hit the ball at full pace and shake, shimmy and shrug their way out of trouble (if not always successfully.)

But they are all in supporting roles atm. The ball winning roles are left to the experienced heads who should be able to go head to head with the best midfields in the comp, yet they can't. So I just don't think we can use youth as an excuse.
 

rustycrate

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I’d bring Brand in for extended run . Has done nothing wrong. Can play on big boys, or smaller types (played on Silvagni). Would free up McCartin to intercept, or Rampe to play on their most dangerous small/mid forward. Charlie Dixon could really get hold of us. McCartin could also be swung forward if no match ups or we want to stretch.

I know will be scorned for this, but Blakey should come in and play permanent forward. He is a nightmare match up at his height and athleticism. I’d look to isolate him 1 on 1 as much as possible.

draft/recruiting = still need key position players. Reid is perfect, but not reliable. I’d throw the biggest offer we can at Darcy Moore.
They are trialing him in the twos down back today
 

lazy77

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To keep things in perspective - we're a young side. We'll have our up's and down's and we'll have results like this from time to time. But as a club I think we're heading towards some exciting times with some of the youth we have. We'll be a force in 2-3 years when some of our younger players mature. We have a lot to look forward to.
We're not a young side at all. The core of our team is actually very experienced. We have a few youngsters but so does every team. There is nothing to suggest that our young players will suddenly start winning premierships off their own backs in a few years. That's just wishful thinking. Our youth has been massively overstated.
 

zyzzbruh

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I’d bring Brand in for extended run . Has done nothing wrong. Can play on big boys, or smaller types (played on Silvagni). Would free up McCartin to intercept, or Rampe to play on their most dangerous small/mid forward. Charlie Dixon could really get hold of us. McCartin could also be swung forward if no match ups or we want to stretch.

I know will be scorned for this, but Blakey should come in and play permanent forward. He is a nightmare match up at his height and athleticism. I’d look to isolate him 1 on 1 as much as possible.

draft/recruiting = still need key position players. Reid is perfect, but not reliable. I’d throw the biggest offer we can at Darcy Moore.
We almost need to bring brand AND melican in because Mccartin is just not cutting the mustard.

Imo mccartin needs to be our swingman, play him mostly forward and swing him back onto the oppos 4th best forward, because that's all he is as a defender. It would also allow us to keep his intercept and rebound abilities if he's not so hung up on a bloke towering over him and picking him off all day.

He needs to be groomed as a Reid replacement, not a KPD. We're wasting him. He should be competing for a spot with the likes of Amartey and McLean.
 

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