Moved Thread Garry Ablett Matthew Kennedy & God

Juddernaut08

Premiership Player
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Posts
4,903
Likes
4,933
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Belief/Faith in a creator/religious ideology is by definition a position based on no proof/evidence.

Faith-

2. strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.

Then you have the laws of physics which can be believed because there is repeatable peer reviewed evidence available. Another example is the theory of evolution ie. evidence based and indisputable.
Evolution very likely did happen, however it is not "indisputable". By yourself labelling it a "theory", means it is actually very "disputable".

A better comparison would be "how did the universe start/form"?
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

PP34

Finals MVP
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Posts
25,400
Likes
16,813
AFL Club
Carlton
You can have a different opinion (this is fine).

You can't tell someone not to express their opinion/threaten punishment for expressing their opinion (censorship).

A poster mocked the "27 virgins" aspect of the Muslim faith in this thread. That's potentially offensive to Muslims. You think they haven't dealt with a similar level of hate?

Grow up.
Folau is being punished for breaching his contract.

Do some research before coming up with anymore stop PC bullshit.
 

Bunk Moreland

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Sep 22, 2011
Posts
29,695
Likes
56,796
Location
Your girlfriend's dreams
AFL Club
Essendon
How is that relevant? He probably has a pretty wide social circle, I will guess 50.
Izzy Folau has sat down and chatted to 50 gay people and got their stories etc?

Give me a spell.

Yes, we believe what we believe, but that’s shaped by our experiences and teaching. When you’re a grown adult, if you want to have an opinion on something, you can choose to either do some research on it (which has never been easier at any point in history), or just sprout off your unknowledgable crap based on your previous prejudices and lack of education.

If you don’t appreciate that “you don’t know what you don’t know” then you’re doomed to a life of ignorance.

Sady this is the case for many a devout religious nut, who never educate themselves critically beyond the crap they’re filled with from birth. And by that I mean truly looking at things without bias and making judgments.

And in a modern, educated, secular society like Australia, there’s not a great deal of excuses for it.

If you’re going to shoot off at the mouth without having some sort of knowledge on something, there’ll be consequences.
 

PP34

Finals MVP
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Posts
25,400
Likes
16,813
AFL Club
Carlton
Wouldn't be part of his contract without PC bullshit.
Posting hateful shit will always be giving your employer something to think about.

Folau could just keep his mouth shut and keep his views to himself. But no he was too dumb to do that.

Political correctness? Yeah right. ******* spare me.
 

Baz_hawk

Norm Smith Medallist
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Posts
7,097
Likes
8,205
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Pick one belief you are certain of and for five minutes believe the opposite. Be honest and let me know if you can achieve this feat.
I believe the Hawks will win the flag this year. I can spend 5 minutes and disprove and see the opposite perspective pretty easily. This isn't difficult to do.

Now, no doubt you were wanting me to questions something more serious such as climate change or vaccinations or whether the Earth is flat. These ones are much harder to question as the evidence that supports these arguments provides a significant bias to them and will void the opposition argument with factual research and explanations. What you should be doing is thinking about the scenario from other side like you've challenged me to do. Belief is just that, it's a belief formed based off what you've been told and grown up with. It's up to you to challenge that mindset, understand why your beliefs are what they are and how that impacts others. I'd argue that it is far easier to sit there as a religious person and question the teachings because nothing in any religion that pushes discrimination against groups of people has any backing or evidence based acknowledgement. This isn't a PC argument, there are plenty of sook fests around for those kinds of things. The post you quoted and your response is about basic human rights and accepting people for who they are. I hate the extreme lengths PC has gone to but this argument is just about basic human rights.
 

jason pm

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Posts
14,621
Likes
26,341
Location
Omnipresent.
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fortitude Valley Diehards. Chelsea.
What is a spiritual conviction ?
A conviction based on no evidence or proof.
Evolution very likely did happen, however it is not "indisputable". By yourself labelling it a "theory", means it is actually very "disputable".

A better comparison would be "how did the universe start/form"?
You have no idea what a "scientific theory" is, go and educate yourself. Here's a dictionary definition for you-

A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. Where possible, theories are tested under controlled conditions in an experiment.

On "how did the universe start/form?" ie before the big bang. Scientists admit they don't know on the other hand believers say they do know ie the sky fairies.
 

AliceCat

Team Captain
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Posts
398
Likes
536
Location
Northern Territory
AFL Club
Geelong
What a wonderful PC world we know live in. Not to mention the fact that liking someone’s post on Instagram/Twitter is now a news worthy event.

I must be missing something - rugby players can bash their wives/take drugs etc etc etc and are welcomed to continue playing the game but a couple quotes of the bible and your out of here!!

That press conference with the wallabies captain and coach is hilarious. Both of them absolutely useless liars. Worth a watch!
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

jason pm

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Posts
14,621
Likes
26,341
Location
Omnipresent.
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fortitude Valley Diehards. Chelsea.
It's got me beat why all these deities that people have faith in all over the world and some of their followers are so pre occupied with what consenting adults do with their own and each others genitals.

Go back to the dark ages when they were created by man to explain the at the time unexplainable, eg. Volcanoes, earthquakes, floods, lightning etc etc...... that's why they had so many gods at the time, it was also created by man for control and power.
 

Juddernaut08

Premiership Player
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Posts
4,903
Likes
4,933
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
A conviction based on no evidence or proof.

You have no idea what a "scientific theory" is, go and educate yourself. Here's a dictionary definition for you-

A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. Where possible, theories are tested under controlled conditions in an experiment.

On "how did the universe start/form?" ie before the big bang. Scientists admit they don't know on the other hand believers say they do know ie the sky fairies.
Ummm, did you even read my post?

I said that I myself see it as the most likely explanation, however it is still a theory. Theories can be disputed. How do you not grasp this?

Actually, everyone should say they don't know.
Atheists believe it was the big bang.
Religious people believe it was God, or some variation of that.

Go educate yourself.
 

madrigal

Team Captain
Joined
May 24, 2018
Posts
358
Likes
338
AFL Club
Essendon
It's got me beat why all these deities that people have faith in all over the world and some of their followers are so pre occupied with what consenting adults do with their own and each others genitals.

Go back to the dark ages when they were created by man to explain the at the time unexplainable, eg. Volcanoes, earthquakes, floods, lightning etc etc...... that's why they had so many gods at the time, it was also created by man for control and power.
Prohibitions against homosexuality and birth control result in more children getting indoctrinated into the faith and make the tribes stronger.
 

jason pm

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 31, 2015
Posts
14,621
Likes
26,341
Location
Omnipresent.
AFL Club
Brisbane Lions
Other Teams
Fortitude Valley Diehards. Chelsea.
Ummm, did you even read my post?

I said that I myself see it as the most likely explanation, however it is still a theory. Theories can be disputed. How do you not grasp this?

Actually, everyone should say they don't know.
Atheists believe it was the big bang.
Religious people believe it was God, or some variation of that.

Go educate yourself.
A scientific theory and an everyday theory have completely different meanings, please read this and educate yourself-

In common, everyday speech, most people use the word ‘theory’ to mean anything from a ‘wild guess’ to an ‘educated guess’, as in: “I have a theory as to why I keep losing socks when I do a laundry…”

Essentially, these are proposed explanations for something, but very informal, and, sometimes, not very sophisticated ones.

_____________________________________________________

In science, one can make observations about something and then propose a reasoned explanation for what is observed… This proposed explanation is then referred to as an ‘hypothesis’. In the scientific method, one then employs a series of experiments to test the hypothesis. The object is less about ‘proving’ the explanation than it is about doing ones best to ‘disprove’ it by showing that, for some reason it is wrong. The general idea is that, if you can show the proposed explanation is wrong, you can discard it and move on to something else.

If an hypothesis survives many rigorous attempts to ‘disprove’ it, and has shown itself to be a very reliable means of predicting the results of a large series of experiments, it can then be said to be a ‘good’ explanation. It may then be ‘upgraded’, if you will, to the status of ‘theory’.

In practice, the process is a little more complex in that, in general, scientific theories are amalgams of a whole body of related (successful) hypotheses. But the basic idea holds in that a scientific theory, is a complex, sophisticated explanation for some phenomena that has shown itself to be highly reliable through rigorous attempts to show that it is wrong.

One caveat… Scientific theories are *never* proven. Scientists always accept that a theory may be wrong in some way so they are only accepted as being the ‘true’ explanation subject to further evidence. However, if a theory continues to show itself to be reliable and a good basis for further learning, we can use its conclusions, for all intents and purposes, *as though* they were ‘proven facts’.
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2019
Posts
102
Likes
213
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
Ablett's problem is that Christianity isn't considered cool anymore, and is frowned upon by a large part of society now.

If he committed his faith to a certain other religion, people like OP wouldn't dare say a word. :nomouth:
 

Juddernaut08

Premiership Player
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Posts
4,903
Likes
4,933
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
A scientific theory and an everyday theory have completely different meanings, please read this and educate yourself-

In common, everyday speech, most people use the word ‘theory’ to mean anything from a ‘wild guess’ to an ‘educated guess’, as in: “I have a theory as to why I keep losing socks when I do a laundry…”

Essentially, these are proposed explanations for something, but very informal, and, sometimes, not very sophisticated ones.

_____________________________________________________

In science, one can make observations about something and then propose a reasoned explanation for what is observed… This proposed explanation is then referred to as an ‘hypothesis’. In the scientific method, one then employs a series of experiments to test the hypothesis. The object is less about ‘proving’ the explanation than it is about doing ones best to ‘disprove’ it by showing that, for some reason it is wrong. The general idea is that, if you can show the proposed explanation is wrong, you can discard it and move on to something else.

If an hypothesis survives many rigorous attempts to ‘disprove’ it, and has shown itself to be a very reliable means of predicting the results of a large series of experiments, it can then be said to be a ‘good’ explanation. It may then be ‘upgraded’, if you will, to the status of ‘theory’.

In practice, the process is a little more complex in that, in general, scientific theories are amalgams of a whole body of related (successful) hypotheses. But the basic idea holds in that a scientific theory, is a complex, sophisticated explanation for some phenomena that has shown itself to be highly reliable through rigorous attempts to show that it is wrong.

One caveat… Scientific theories are *never* proven. Scientists always accept that a theory may be wrong in some way so they are only accepted as being the ‘true’ explanation subject to further evidence. However, if a theory continues to show itself to be reliable and a good basis for further learning, we can use its conclusions, for all intents and purposes, *as though* they were ‘proven facts’.
Fair enough :thumbsu:
 

Juddernaut08

Premiership Player
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Posts
4,903
Likes
4,933
Location
Melbourne
AFL Club
Carlton
Ablett's problem is that Christianity isn't considered cool anymore, and is frowned upon by a large part of society now.

If he committed his faith to a certain other religion, people like OP wouldn't dare say a word. :nomouth:
I don't think it's just Christians, pretty much, most religions get bashed on here. I've read insults to Hinduism, Catholicism and Islam on this site. Usually said in a light tone, but disrespectful nevertheless.

Strange place this can be at times.
 

Tiger2709

Brownlow Medallist
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Posts
23,506
Likes
19,731
Location
Perth
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Liverpool
Drunks
Homosexuals
Adulterers
Liars
Fornicators
Thieves
Atheists
Idolaters


**** me, 99% of footballers must fall in to one of those categories, Gary is going to be lonely up there in heaven.
Its laughable the way these religious flogs carry on, f@ck me that list describes the Ablett family to a tee...allegedly.

A couple of hail mary's and all will be forgiven, or is that bloody mary's?
 

rjslcM

Club Legend
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Posts
1,368
Likes
1,499
Location
Glen Waverly
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Other Teams
Australia, Roger Federer.
Basic principles of the bible that Christians should understand but just don't.

1. Jesus - An archetypal perfect character presented to us in a story that we can all aspire to (honest, generous, loving, non-judgmental)

2. Sin - We are all imperfect. We find it difficult to live up to this perfect archetypal character - but its good that the bar is set so high.

3. Repentance - Through admitting our own imperfections; we become more accepting of others imperfections, are more able to love others with all of their flaws, be generous and non-judgmental - therefore actually become more like the archetypal perfect character we aspire to.

4. Heaven and hell - As we go through this process, life gets better, as we admit our faults and continuously aspire to be better. If we don't admit our imperfections and consider ourselves righteous; we also judge others harshly, have worse social relations, do not take advice well, get more easily upset when things don't go our way.

5. God's judgment - Life itself is therefore just; the person who does not admit their imperfections or accept the imperfections of others will suffer. Life rewards those who can admit their imperfections and love others with their flaws.

6. Religion - The bible is to be interpreted symbolically and not in the literal way devout Christians seem to interpret it. How do we know? Pharisees were perhaps the most outwardly religious people in the bible. Pharisee actually means 'separated one'. Perhaps this could be interpreted as he who sees himself as separate to god (believes that god is in the sky, and not life itself). Spoken of converting people to 'dead religion', making them 'sons of hell'. It is these people who the bible speaks about steering clear from: self-righteous, hypocrites. On the other hand, our archetypal perfect character befriended all of the people that they were judging.

Seemingly,
We still have a bunch of people who aren't dogmatic yet understand these principles much better than those who are dogmatic; while we still have a bunch of judgmental religious people who are the furthest from a better life out of any of us.

Folau, Ablett. Poor guys. Must be living in hell.
 
Top Bottom