Garry Lyon & Tim Watson: "Carlton aren't a big four club anymore."

[King Brown]

Spot on with your first comment. Certainly the media have been well paid. You ask if the AFL think people are that stupid? I would say they know it. For some reason the AFL keep serving up an inferior product but the public keep turning up in droves. They don't realise they are being conned. To answer your third question, all the AFL do is PR, they couldn't give a s**t about providing a good product.

“The competition is rigged” says supporter of club who had zones rigged in their favour for 30 years.

 

[King Brown]

Hawthorn are so far beyond any other team it isn't even funny.

They've won a flag in every decade since the 60s. What they're doing for the game is ridiculous, with names like Lewis, Mitchell and Hodge moving to other clubs to support them, assistant coaches have all played finals (with two premierships and an additional grand final appearance - correct me if there's more..)

They're sitting at 70-80k members..

If there's a top 4, then Hawthorn aren't in it, they're above it..

Except for the fact the support base isn’t there and they have to sell games to Tasmania, then sure, they’re bigger than Richmond.

 

[sobrave]

Melbourne
North
St Kilda
Western Bulldogs

Those are the true powerhouses

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

What we are saying "bro" is that the whole concept of Big 4 isn't discussed outside of those clubs.

If the other clubs in Melbourne talk about it then they have a serious case of small man syndrome.

In short: it's just a circlejerk of clubs who want to project some kind of superiority.

Conclusion- No-one else gives a ****

Hey brah, Garry Lyon discussed it and he's a Melbourne man. You should probably research things before you comment on them.

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

Geez this "big 4" s**t does my head in.

The term "big 4" is used to describe Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond and Carlton, from when they were the biggest 4 clubs in the land.
They will always and forever be the "big 4." That doesn't automatically make them the top 4 clubs in the AFL. (Carlton and Essendon clearly aren't)

If you don't support one of these sides, yet think your side should be referred to as a "big 4" club, get over your inferiority complex.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

No comparison between Hawthorn and Essendon supporters. Essendon supporters are super passionate and not fair weathered.

This is why they're big four. Because they're awesome. Whether you like it or not.

 

[Russian Demon]

Essendon is getting "wind assisted" help from AFL HQ after the drugs disgrace. How anyone doesn't see through the Gerballs like Public Relations push for Essendon is a nuff nuff.

Does the AFL seriously think people are that stupid?

Which brings me to one thing, is the AFL too focused on PR Spin and not enough on actually providing a good product (i.e. real footy) these days?

Do you mean Goebbels?

 

[Beer n Skittles]

Ah, surely Watson meant "Carlton's support & membership numbers seem to be well behind the other 3"?

I would've thought more players nominated Carlton as a destination lately than any of the other 3, besides maybe Essendon now that everyone wants to go there this year.

 

[Stormzy]

'Big 4' or not couldn't give a rotten stuff what Timmy Watson and Gazza think.

 

[Catoggio76]

Do you mean Goebbels?

Yes

 

[sprockets]

It's a commentator's job not to always be right but to cause controversy. Carlton have won the equal most premierships. They had the 4th largest crowd attendance for the year. They're safe. For now. Attendances 2017:

Richmond
Essendon
Collingwood
Carlton
...

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/2017.html

Anyone see a trend?

 

[NetworkNerd]

I thought Sydney was the biggest club in the AFL - according to BloodRet signature at least

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Swans “hugely unsuccessful on field”? They have 10 Premierships in their history - 8 if you don’t count the modern era. St Kilda have one. So its a bit unfair to be lumping them both in the same boat.

The VFL was a stable league from the 1920s to the 1970s. In that period (over 50 years) both the Swans and Saints won a solitary flag each. Think that was a big factor in the lack of growth in their support over the period.

 

[Catoggio76]

Spot on with your first comment. Certainly the media have been well paid. You ask if the AFL think people are that stupid? I would say they know it. For some reason the AFL keep serving up an inferior product but the public keep turning up in droves. They don't realise they are being conned. To answer your third question, all the AFL do is PR, they couldn't give a s**t about providing a good product.

Australians have a sheep like mentality sometimes, it's why you don't see large scale protests here like you do internationally.

 

[TeeJay Blue]

Last thing I would do is take the opinions of these two numbskulls.

One who betrayed a close mate and used the depression card as an excuse to escape guilt. The other constantly sharing bias lopsided opinions and handing out coaching advice like his two year experience of it at St. Kilda meant everything.

I don't give a hoot about whether or not Carlton is a 'big four' club . What I know is that they are arguably one of the most successful clubs in football history. Yes they made bad choices in recent years, but there comes a time when all of that changes. It's only a matter of when. To obtain 50,000 odd members while languishing around the bottom is a decent achievement. And it will only get better when they improve.

Success puts bums on seats.

 

[beta_condition]

No comparison between Hawthorn and Essendon supporters. Essendon supporters are super passionate and not fair weathered.

This is why they're big four. Because they're awesome. Whether you like it or not.

Don't get to direct your topics direction darling.

 

[radiojake]

It's a commentator's job not to always be right but to cause controversy. Carlton have won the equal most premierships. They had the 4th largest crowd attendance for the year. They're safe. For now. Attendances 2017:

Richmond
Essendon
Collingwood
Carlton
...

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/2017.html

Anyone see a trend?

surely you got to look at home crowd attendances and not total -

Don't remember any of those clubs getting shipped off to play in Darwin infront of 9,000 because s**t clubs have to sell home games...

 

[Pack Specialist]

I love Gaz Lyon more than Billy's wife but he is completely wrong on this one IMO.

Carlton are arguably the greatest Club in the history of the game and deservedly so.

Everything they've achieved can never be undone and they've hit heights in history that the team I support aspires to.

The only reason it has been a long and arduous journey back to relevance is because of decisions that certain individuals made at their own behest.

The irony is that similar decisions won the Bombers the flag in 1993.

The Big 4 crap is historical fact but cannot be used in modern context.

In no particular order-

Historical Big 5
------------------------
Carlton
Collingwood
Essendon
Richmond
Melbourne

Modern Big 5
----------------------
Hawthorn
Sydney
Geelong
West Coast
Adelaide

History is history, nothing can add to it and nothing can be taken away.

Who knows what the future holds?

 

[Ian Dunross]

Carltons fan base is hibernating much like the Tigers was up until this year. Success comes back and they will be out of the woodwork in force.

Tigers fan base was hibernating?

What planet have you been living on the last 5 years

 

[FlyHigh18]

You have to wonder how much money the AFL leaves on the table in the interests of competition evenness.

A season with the top four of Essendon, Richmond, Collingwood and Carlton would rake in millions.

People say the AFL is money hungry, but let’s be honest, if they really were they’d just let the competition play out like that.

Yes, it probably would rake in millions... for the short term. Great idea if you want a competition with only 6 clubs in 10 years time.

 

[Tzatziki_Man]

surely you got to look at home crowd attendances and not total -

Don't remember any of those clubs getting shipped off to play in Darwin infront of 9,000 because s**t clubs have to sell home games...

1. Richmond 616,000
2. Essendon 559,000
3. Collingwood 515,000
4. Adelaide 513,000
5. Carlton 421,000
6. Port Adelaide 419,000
7. West Coast 404,000
8. Melbourne 393,000

That's your top 8 in home attendances.

 

[simba_]

the old vic big 4 will always be our traditional big 4, those idiots are just trying to get their names in conversations

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

You have to wonder how much money the AFL leaves on the table in the interests of competition evenness.

A season with the top four of Essendon, Richmond, Collingwood and Carlton would rake in millions.

People say the AFL is money hungry, but let’s be honest, if they really were they’d just let the competition play out like that.

Short term yes, long term it would dry up.

 

[FRUMPY]

well we better pack it up and close the club, 2 people who change their minds on topics as often as they change their underwear declare carlton are no longer a big 4 club!!!!

If that meant something people might give a s**t.

 

[calyam]

The 'big 4' was a concept applicable to the VFL and refers to Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond and Carlton. It refers to the Victorian clubs that tend to get the biggest crowds and typically there has been a fierce rivalry between these teams.

A modern concept of a 'big 4' would be very different. If it was based on on-field success then teams such as Essendon, Carlton and Richmond would surely not be there. If it was still based on membership and supporter base then it would include four of the following six teams: Collingwood, Essendon, Richmond, Hawthorn, West Coast and Adelaide.