Gary Abblett was a Hawk?

[Dipper]

Hey Hawkers I need your help with some history here.I was reading recently that Gary Abblett started at Hawthorn but couldn't settle then went to Geelong but Hawthorn tried to get him back but lost the court case & so Geelong kept him.
So what do you think would have happened if we'd kept him?do you think we'd have been premiers every year in the mid & late 80's rather than just every other year?
My mate who's a Geelong supporter from Ballarat says that he's the greatest player ever?what do you say?surely he can't have been better than Dermot Brereton?
Go the Hawks!

 

[Grendel]

Yea, wore 35 and played 6 games in 82/3? something like that. Had one outstanding game against the Roos were he kicked 5 from a wing and killed Keith Grieg a dual Brownlow medalist. I thought how good was this kid going to be?

Well i was right about that, but it wasnt with the Hawks.

In 87 we had a contract for him to come back as he wasnt happy at Geelong but they were going to go to court over it and the powers at Hawthorn at the time decided against that course of action. Eventually he resolved his differences and became the legendary Geelong player he now is rememberd as.

Looking back did we miss him? Im in two minds about it, i always wonder if Dunstall would have gotten a go (right at the start i mean in 85) if Ablett was already a fixture at the Hawks. He may well have been the difference between a winning and losing side in the 84 GF. Maybe if we could have beaten the Dons in 84 that might have broken them psychologically (sp?) but i guess we will never know that now. All up, missed him for his football ability no doubt, for his devisivness and lack of team spirit i dont think we missed him at all.

The club has five flags to show for the time that G.Ablett was in the game. G.Ablett hasnt any, i guess that says something in itself.


One thing i do know for a certainty is that we were spoilt by the eighties and i want some more spoiling soon!

 

[Dipper]

Grendel,
thanks for helping me out with the Gary Ablett thing, maybe you could explain to me what went wrong after'being very spoiled' in the 80's,why did the team slump so alrmingly?I know the draft can't have been good to us for all those years but it seems strange how such a champion team fell to such depths.Was that Hawk team the greatest ever?& how good can the present bunch become?

 

[dyson]

His departure from Hawthorn to Geelong has been rumoured to have something to do with inappropiate behavior in the dressing rooms.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

If I can butt-in and offer my 2 cents worth ...

Dipper you ask why Hawthorn slumped after 1991 and all their stars retired ?

One reason is that the team of that time lacked discipline,. They got by ob=n sheer natural talent alone, things like team discipline, sticking to a game plan, doing the 1 percenters - all that type of stuff was largely ignored because the squad was so talented in those days they didn't need to pay attention to those aspects of the game. Once all the stars started to retire then the lack of on-field discipline started to show through. The 'Mark II' Hawks of the mid-late 90's were triers but too often their heads would drop, they lacked a bit of true grit and when opposition teams gained the upper hand they would surrender without a whimper.

Thats why when Ken Judge took over the place he kept on stressing over and over the 'Accountability' aspect of football. He was trying to instill some discipline into the squad and to a point it has worked, Hawthorn are on the way back, most punters here predict they will make the finals again this year and who knows they maybe able to mount a serious challenge for the flag in a couple of years time, all this without any stand-out 'superstars' (well maybe Crawford) - Just a well-drilled, disciplined unit that plays to its strengths and sticks to a game plan.

This is the trure legacy of Ken Judge at Hawthorn.

cheers

 

[Pessimistic]

Just to reinforce what you said, BSA. I once heard Dermie say that he thought moving to sydney would be a 'doddle' but he found out that the swans, despite being on the bottom, trained much much harder than Hawthorn.

As for no real 'superstars' watch this space. The media turns winners into superstars, and the losers are just losers.

And Paul Salmon is one person who will probably go in the 'interchange' bench of the "Best Ever" teams of two clubs ! How many players have done that ?

 

[Pessimistic]

Dyson.
I heard those rumours too. About Gary Ablett in the dressing rooms. Your note seemed to leave open the possibility of (shall we say sexual) all sorts of things but the rumour I heard was something else entirely.

And the rumour may not be true at all.

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

yes indeed - if the Hawks can again show an incremental improvement next season then of course all the media hacks will come out and annoint these guys as 'superstars'

Did Brereton really say that about Sydney in 1994 ? - very interesting. Certainly Barassi is known for how hard he likes to train players and certainly from what I can remember about the Swans in those days is that they ran hard and had good skills but 'didn't know how to win' if you like.

Maybe the training regime at Sydney helps explain why Brereton was such a huge flop for us that year

cheers

 

[goatmaster]

Very good call on the Hawthorn collapse BSA.
We did win on talent more than heart in the early 90's & after losing the likes of Dermie, Dipper, Ayres & Schwab we lacked the toughness & discipline.
The rumour I heard on Ablett was that he was somewhat tired one day , possibly a tad emotional also

------------------
Goatmaster
the prime minister of the principality of Mooball

 

[Pessimistic]

BSA
Yes Dermie was saying that in context of how bad a year he had at sydney - still he did OK at Collingwood. I think Hawk fans cheered him as well as their own team.

Rambling away Isn't it good that Raydn Tallis may be remembered as a good plaer rathere the one that dermie 'stood on' - He 'fessed up to that one too.

And on Players moving clubs I heard Richard Taylor's first response to being 'not required' at hawthorn was thet he'd rather retire than not play for Hawthorn' It's a real shame these things have to happen - I for one will never boo him just because he's an eagle now. He will be worth his weight to them.

And Richard Taylor was so close to being a Magpie. I went to a practice game shortly before the (I think it was '94) before the pre-season draft. Dermie and Dickie were trining with hawthorn in the hope of being picked up. Both had Injury doubts on them.

Lethal was there as collingwood coach and someone asked if he was looking at Dermie - He replied he was actually looking at Richard Taylor. When the Draft came round Collingwood's first pick was - Dermie and the next selection - Hawthorn was Richard Taylor. Who knows if Hawthorn intended to pick up Dermie

 

[Dipper]

Hey if any of you blokes wouldn't mind telling me what the Ablett rumours are but don't want to libel yourselves I would appreciate it if you could e-mail me plus any other juicy Hawthorn gossip from the years
Cheers

 

[Grendel]

Dipper, if you want to know where it all went wrong, a president we had by the name of Trevor Brown helped out, by being to concious of corparte types and ingnoring for so long what the essence of Hawthorn is, ie the Family club.

He was the one that sent us into bankruptcy, thankfully Brian Coleman (who has been shabbily treated because he thought the merger with Melbourne was the only way to go) and the INCOMPARABLE IAN DICKER (thank GOD for that man) have helped to once again get some of the off field affairs in good shape.

BSA,Pess and goatmaster have all gone over re the discipline aspect and they are correct for the most part. But dont gloss over the draft either. IT KILLED US, in the early years,we just didnt have a clue. It was primarily brought in to stop the Hawks, boy did that work a treat for the league. One player from the first four drafts was Darrin Pritchard. He was the only one to become a regular senior player. Later we started to get a little smarter with it, both Ben Allan and Darren Jarman came about through some good trading.

Then the crash, both Jarman and Allen more through personal reasons than anything went back to their home states. To be gutted of two of (at the time) the best half dozen midfielders in the competition was a huge loss. Suddenly the team was very light on for quality runners, Crawford being really the only one we had. Sure Salmon coming over compensated a little but our midfield was gutted. Its only now, five seasons on that we are recovering from that. Poor recruiting on our part perhaps, but at least now the signs are positive.

If you have read the thread,
'KJ did a good job at Hawthorn' you can get an idea of where i and others think our recuriting went wrong.

Sorry about the length, but you did ask

ps on Ablett, well lets just say from what i heard the storys more to do with the demon drink (and maybe other substances) than anything of a sexual nature which ive never heard of before it was brought up in this thread.

Cheers.

 

[Hawkforce]

Rumours rumours...

The story I had been told was that Ablett was involved in a sexual assault allegation.

There were no charges but Allan Jeans, being an ex-cop, was not prepared to have that type of player in his side.

All these rumours are probably bollocks but one thing is true...

There was no place for Ablett in the Hawks side of the '80's. Didn't want him and didn't need him.

Round 1, 1990, proved that!

 

[Dipper]

Hey Grendel don't worry about the length I always appreciate any information about the Hawks especially from someone who a)knows their suff & b)loves the club.
On the subject of mergers what would have happened if the Hawks had merged with Melbourne?would it have been a true partnership or would Melbourne have just swallowed Hawthorn up?& would you have still been able to support them or would you have felt nothing for this new team(the Melbourne Hawks or whatever they would have called them)?In England the idea of clubs merging is just not tolerated though I have seen that it has happened a lot in your rugby league(but how can 2 clubs with such rivalry like Manly & Norths merge,it is beyond me)
Also I don't fully understand the draft,tell me if i'm wrong but I presume that the bottom club get's 1st pick & so on for young players coming through but I don't really understand getting de-listed players from other clubs.Also don't AFL clubs have their own junior teams(loke English football teams) where as the players grow up they sign on as pros with that club & have a love for that club.Surely clubs should be encouraged to develop talent & be allowed to keep it?
Hey Hawforce I see you've got a grip of the language using words like 'bollocks'

 

[The Dutchman!]

Grendel

To answer you distant question...

For the most part (89 aside) G.Ablett has proved deadset useless at GF's so the wishful thinking factor re: 84 is exactly what it is - wishful. Like me saying, what if T.Watson, B.Thompson, N.Daniher and R.Merritt all hadn't endured shocking injuries (causing Big Rog to be considered even vaguely sellable) who Hawthorn (or anyone else) won anything between 86 and 90 .... ie: due to the same sort of mix of spirit breaking and raw talent... it's just BS....

Cheers
Dutch

 

[goatmaster]

Dipper,
I'll have a crack at the merger thing.
The merger was a takeover by Melbourne. I don't think you can ever preordain what you would have felt about the merged club but I certainly don't think the passion would or could have been there. Before the Hawks were involved I could sit back (like many of our Essendon posters do now) , look at the logic & tell other clubs the need is obvious , best thing for you etc.
Once your own club is involved it is different . There is nothing logical about footy particularly as a supporter. Logic is nothing passion is everything. This is why sport across the world is suffering from the power of the millionaires. Most of them like the power & prestige & lack the passion.
This is where you have to give something to Mcguire & Elliott(don't both of them myself)they are passionate about their teams

------------------
Goatmaster
the prime minister of the principality of Mooball

 

[Hawkforce]

It was only a takeover because, at the time, Melbourne were seen as having the stronger... ummm... hand.

There was always a large latent support base for Hawthorn, but the downside of our domination of the competition was a lax attitude amongst its supporters; especially in the 18-35 age group.

I was a case in point. During the early 90's I saw more Fitzroy games than Hawthorn as, unless we were playing a strong club at the time, there was little point in turning up until finals time.

The administration at the time had every reason to believe that we were ****ed. We shouldn't blame them. Rather thank them. Footy means more to me post 96 than it ever did in the 80's.

It is highly ironic to look at Hawthorn and Melbourne now - in 96 they wanted our players and we wanted their money.

Today it is the opposite!

 

[Pessimistic]

One thing about the merger was the papers were running a merged team which they thought would be a premiership team.

Ironically now both clubs look like top 5 material the bulk of those 'Stars are long gone (Viney, Tingay, Lyon, Stynes, Dunstall, Langford, Platten, Salmon etc) of the remaining ones some 'solid' players remain
(Schwartz, Nietz, Wowodin, Holland, Crawford, Harford) but the real resurgence has come in recruits since then ( White, Green, Yze, Rigoni, Croad, Thompson, Hay)

To have kept some of the stars of the time would have meant a lot of the younger talent might have had to be 'let go' It is conceivable that the melbourne Hawks would have had a poorer list than either club today. They certainly wouldn't have had more members than Hawthorn had now.

By the way Brian Coleman can be seen at the social club often and is a selector on the team of the century. I think the current board has been inclusive and having Brereton, Scott and now Parkin all at the club shows that.

If Collingwood were as well run as Hawthorn then with their supposed support - they really would be a club to fear !

 

[Joey Seaside]

My take on Ablett is that Hawthorn had simply way too much talent to include him. We got Dunstall, who is only a notch down from Ablett's rarefied heights. But in an overall sense, Dunstall has been a far more valuable recruit - I'm not just talking about his playing career. He can be credited, in part for our modern success, too.

 

[Dixie Flatline]

Mega bump is mega.

 

[Davo-27]

someone asked why the club dropped off in the early-mid 90's?, even though the club was very successful we had a board who threw around money buying a $1mill oak table I believe as well as our membership stagnating at 10-13k when at the time the best clubs had 20k members, so Hawthorn was in huge financial troubles at the time, this led to Peter Knights becoming coach on a VERY low budget contract and a lot of training staff being very under-qualified and over-worked(as well as new teams taking our best talent in Darren Jarman-Adel and Ben Allan-Frem), few years later our financial position was attacked by the AFL which was merger-hungry and we just survived those times, RIP Fitzroy........

basically took 10 years of hard work to get the Hawks into a decent position from that time

 

[Hawker1167]

Old Gazza was a naughty boy in the early years and used to pinch cars to come to training lol......and of course Jeansy being a copper was sick of his bad behaviour and moved him on.

Jeans was asked if it was a mistake and his response was Hawks 4 flags in the 80's Geelong with Ablett zero

 

[Nuggets73]

Yeah ... Gazza was a Hawk!
Apparently (rumour only) he was more keen on smoking pot ... than turning up to training!!!

Sad ... Imagine our forward line ... Dermie, Bung, Gazza, Bucky, Plats ... would have won every GF!

 

[dmc82]

Ignoring what Ablett could have done for your club in the 80s and 90s, imagine what the father son rule could have done for you between 2007 and now.

 

[Whirling Dervish]

Ignoring what Ablett could have done for your club in the 80s and 90s, imagine what the father son rule could have done for you between 2007 and now.

You mean between 2007 and 2010?