Autopsy Gary Ablett Junior is the best player ever

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Martin has been tagged for 6 years and played the greatest season of all time according to Leigh Mathews. Selwood has rarely been in the top few players over a season.
Martin wasn't even the best player in 2017 let alone having had a better career than Selwood.
 

demondavey

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Se
Selwood is not better than Dustin Martin!
Some of your supporters really can’t hack it can you when Richmond players aren’t included in people’s opinions of best players. It’s the same reason Rance isn’t a better defender than Scarlett, Silvagni, Glass, Leppitsch or Langford.
 

demondavey

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Martin has been tagged for 6 years and played the greatest season of all time according to Leigh Mathews. Selwood has rarely been in the top few players over a season.
So? He played a great season. Singular. That doesn’t elevate him above the consistent output of those on that list. I am not saying he is rubbish, but he isn’t better than Selwood. Selwood not in the top few players? Who cares about the ‘top’ players. Selwood holds his own and has done since his debut.
 

Socrates2

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Lol
Some of your supporters really can’t hack it can you when Richmond players aren’t included in people’s opinions of best players. It’s the same reason Rance isn’t a better defender than Scarlett, Silvagni, Glass, Leppitsch or Langford.
Lol, Rance not better than Darren Glass, gmab mate!
 

Socrates2

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So? He played a great season. Singular. That doesn’t elevate him above the consistent output of those on that list. I am not saying he is rubbish, but he isn’t better than Selwood. Selwood not in the top few players? Who cares about the ‘top’ players. Selwood holds his own and has done since his debut.
He was All-Australian 3 years in a row and is still only 27 plus he earns his free kicks. You can't just ignore his 2017 year, there's no way Selwood could do that.Also Martin kicks goals and can kick more than 45m. If they were both 18yo and in the draft most people would pick Martin for his match winning ability.
 

demondavey

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Lol
Lol, Rance not better than Darren Glass, gmab mate!
Rance is not better than the list I mentioned. Rance is a B grade one on one defender. I’ve seen Rance owned by average forwards in a one on one contest. Harry Taylor rag dolled him a few years ago at KP. I’ve seen Hogan take him to the cleaners multiple times. The guy is a very limited player.
 

demondavey

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He was All-Australian 3 years in a row and is still only 27 plus he earns his free kicks. You can't just ignore his 2017 year, there's no way Selwood could do that.Also Martin kicks goals and can kick more than 45m. If they were both 18yo and in the draft most people would pick Martin for his match winning ability.
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Socrates2

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Rance is not better than the list I mentioned. Rance is a B grade one on one defender. I’ve seen Rance owned by average forwards in a one on one contest. Harry Taylor rag dolled him a few years ago at KP. I’ve seen Hogan take him to the cleaners multiple times. The guy is a very limited player.
Lol!
 

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Socrates2

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Why don’t you respond properly than just issuing out a LOL? You can’t even take the blinkers off and respond in a mature way, you just have to get offended. You all do it, you all do it with the discussions re your players.
Because you are being ridiculous. Many people have said he's the GOAT.I can understand saying Silvagni and Scarlett might be better but 6 All Australians in a row plus All Australian captaincy plus Wayne Carey and SoS saying he could be the GOAT.Ill take their opinion b4 yours. You only have to watch him play to understand that.He reads the ball earlier than any other party and gets to more contests than any player previously. He is also very good below his knees- a bit better than Darren Glass.I just assumed you were trolling.
 

demondavey

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Because you are being ridiculous. Many people have said he's the GOAT.I can understand saying Silvagni and Scarlett might be better but 6 All Australians in a row plus All Australian captaincy plus Wayne Carey and SoS saying he could be the GOAT.Ill take their opinion b4 yours. You only have to watch him play to understand that.He reads the ball earlier than any other party and gets to more contests than any player previously. He is also very good below his knees- a bit better than Darren Glass.I just assumed you were trolling.
As a pure one on one defender, he isn’t as good
 

Duskfire

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He was All-Australian 3 years in a row and is still only 27 plus he earns his free kicks. You can't just ignore his 2017 year, there's no way Selwood could do that.Also Martin kicks goals and can kick more than 45m. If they were both 18yo and in the draft most people would pick Martin for his match winning ability.
What people are arguing is that Selwood has been better been over a longer period of time. Martin had a better single season for sure, but as a body of work, Selwood has something like the 7th most Brownlow votes ever. Regardless what people’s thoughts are regarding the Brownlow, the top 10 most votes are made up of very very good players and there’s no reason why Selwood would be the exception there.

Many many coaches and ex coaches - Malthouse and Matthews being two of them - have said they would take Selwood in his prime over any other player. His desire and determination and will to win after second to none.

Meanwhile Nartin had an amazing year, a couple of really good ones, and has since been criticised for attitude and work ethic. No one can ever deny that Selwood lacks those.

In any case, both amazing players and at the end of the day, completely subjective. It’s not like we are comparing Clive Waterhouse to Franklin or anything.
 

randyzany

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I never saw any evidence of this whatsoever. He was quicker and better skilled than all his teammates. Why do people rag on players for getting give and go hand balls? ‘There’s a defender trying to shut down myself and a teammate - gee if I hold onto it he can just go after me. Maybe if I pass it to my teammate so he goes after him, and then I receive it, we can lose him altogether.’ If Ablett is the player giving and going, chances are by the time he receives the ball back, he’s burned anyone within cooee and then hit a target perfectly upfield.

Sometimes (like the 2010 prelim) a more direct route is needed to stem the flow and momentum of the opposition. I remember in that game several occasions where Gary kept on hand balling backwards to Geelong players who were corralled/surrounded by Pies player, only for the ball to eventually spill in Geelong's defensive half (due to the Pies' suffocating pressure) resulting in a Pies player picking the pill up and kicking several easy goals in our defensive 50.

Gazz may have honestly believed he was doing that (give and go/handballing backwards/etc..) for the best interest of the team but I think on a subconsciously level he loved how quickly he accumulated possession playing in that style and was reluctant to change. But after a couple goals had been scored doing that, he should've realised different tactics where needed to counter the Collingwood press; never-the-less he stubbornly continued on with that game plan helping Collingwood pile on the goals in the first half.

There's nothing wrong with the give and go in moderation but when a player becomes renown (relying on it more than other elite players) for it you gotta wonder what the motivation is behind it. And I think in GAJ's prime years accumulating possessions was a huge motivating for him mainly because it's widely acknowledged that the umps reward high possession players with Brownlow votes and winning the Brownlow leads to bigger contracts, etc, etc, etc...


I'm not saying GAJ loving lucre makes him the evil incarnate but let's not pretend his some sweet perfect angel either. GAJ loves the coin and you could see his decision making back in 2009/10 be dictated by that 'Achilles heel'.
 

T G M

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I started watching footy in the early 70's, he is the best I have seen, it's not even close.
I know I’ve harped on about it multiple times but Ablett had a team 9-6 who then went 4-25 when he got injured so that would suggest that he was indeed able to lift his side to success when others around him struggled.

It was never apparent at Geelong as much because they won no matter what
Great point. I honestly think Ablett played his best footy at Gold Coast. Malcolm Blight said he had never seen anyone so consistently good over a number of seasons.
 

Walshawk

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Leigh Matthews is the GOTV era. Hard to compare with any further back. Not enough footage or match stats. Matthews record is as good as anyone else's. He is a top 10 all time forward and as well as one the greatest mids. If there was a Leigh Matthew trophy when he was playing, he would have won more than 5.
GAJ, like Selwood, has incredible consistency. RIght up there with the greats.
 

mick500

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He's a bit of a seagull these days . Not very accountable, looking for cheap possessions. But he is 35 so it's understandable , at his best he was one of the best. But he has flaws in his game these days that a good team like Geelong can cover up. He often doesn't move. Maybe it's footy smarts, but if Josh jenkins did the same thing, well, he'd be playing in the 2s like he is now. Even though he kicks 50 a year.

Great skills still, but definitely doesn't run both ways these days. Judd in his prime was the better player imo.
 

Sttew

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He's a bit of a seagull these days . Not very accountable, looking for cheap possessions. But he is 35 so it's understandable , at his best he was one of the best. But he has flaws in his game these days that a good team like Geelong can cover up. He often doesn't move. Maybe it's footy smarts, but if Josh jenkins did the same thing, well, he'd be playing in the 2s like he is now. Even though he kicks 50 a year.

Great skills still, but definitely doesn't run both ways these days. Judd in his prime was the better player imo.
You haven’t seen any of his games this year, have you? He is anything but a seagull, and the coaches obviously agree, judging by the votes.
 

mick500

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You haven’t seen any of his games this year, have you? He is anything but a seagull, and the coaches obviously agree, judging by the votes.
Yeah I've seen him. Geelong are playing very well. I think ablett is playing his role well. But let's not pretend he's the same player he was when he left. I think with Geelong being so strong in the midfield ablett is afforded more leeway than he was at Gold Coast where he would get the best tagger every week. Geelong are going to be very tough to beat this year if they stay fit and healthy come finals. But I don't think it's all ablett.
 
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