Autopsy Gary Ablett Junior is the best player ever

Sttew

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Yeah I've seen him. Geelong are playing very well. I think ablett is playing his role well. But let's not pretend he's the same player he was when he left. I think with Geelong being so strong in the midfield ablett is afforded more leeway than he was at Gold Coast where he would get the best tagger every week. Geelong are going to be very tough to beat this year if they stay fit and healthy come finals. But I don't think it's all ablett.
Who said anything about Ablett being the same player? But at the moment he is arguably top 10 in the AFL...on form

Also, he isn’t playing midfield this year
 

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Never saw him play play, but Haydn Bunton Snr.

Gary Junior would be very good if better than the three Brownlows plus three Sandovers by Bunton Snr.

Gary Senior - for almost supernatural athletic feats
Gary Junior - to win the flag with consistent excellence
 

mick500

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Who said anything about Ablett being the same player? But at the moment he is arguably top 10 in the AFL...on form

Also, he isn’t playing midfield this year
Yeah I know he isn't playing much time in the midfield, which is why I said with geelong being so strong in the midfield it allows ablett more leeway. He does go in from time to time as well, but he's not there for 4 quarters that's for sure thanks to geelongs depth. The all compliment each other nicely. Selwood tough contested footy, danger tough contested footy and fast break from stoppages, but his disposal let's him down, where ablett adds the class on top. He's the cherry on top.
 

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I started watching footy in the early 70's, he is the best I have seen, it's not even close.


Great point. I honestly think Ablett played his best footy at Gold Coast. Malcolm Blight said he had never seen anyone so consistently good over a number of seasons.
I've been watching since the early 80s and he's possibly top 10 of those I've seen. He's not my No.1 and it's not even close. Obviously an all time great any way you spin it but not GOAT.
 

Morro

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Its such a subjective argument but he has to be in the conversation.

In my time, I have seen players have better seasons than his best, but as far as consistency over a long period, I dont think anyone comes close that I know of.
 
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Yeah I know he isn't playing much time in the midfield, which is why I said with geelong being so strong in the midfield it allows ablett more leeway. He does go in from time to time as well, but he's not there for 4 quarters that's for sure thanks to geelongs depth. The all compliment each other nicely. Selwood tough contested footy, danger tough contested footy and fast break from stoppages, but his disposal let's him down, where ablett adds the class on top. He's the cherry on top.
He's been arguably BOG in his last 4 consecutive games. What are you watching?
 

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Who do you have ahead of him?
Without even going through an extensive list of names for comparison..... Carey, Lockett, Snr, Greg Williams... Also agree that Judd was more damaging at his best.

I think GAJ best also coincided with the era where we get flattered by numbers over impact and he has benefitted from that circular game of give and go he's played where he gets 2-3 touches in a 5m radius without actually doing anything. This isn't to say he isn't impactful as he clearly is and is in the top few players of his era and can reasonably be considered the best. However I think there are have a number of better players and genuine match winners who I'd rate higher just in my time watching football, let alone in the course of the history of the game.
 

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Without even going through an extensive list of names for comparison..... Carey, Lockett, Snr, Greg Williams... Also agree that Judd was more damaging at his best.

I think GAJ best also coincided with the era where we get flattered by numbers over impact and he has benefitted from that circular game of give and go he's played where he gets 2-3 touches in a 5m radius without actually doing anything. This isn't to say he isn't impactful as he clearly is and is in the top few players of his era and can reasonably be considered the best. However I think there are have a number of better players and genuine match winners who I'd rate higher just in my time watching football, let alone in the course of the history of the game.
They are all great players, all top ten behind GAJ. I always find the "give and go" criticism to be unreasonable, it might just be that the players and coaches know a bit more about the game than the fans, hence his multiple MVP's and AFLCA awards. It strikes me as a good idea to give the ball back to the most highly skilled player and a way of releasing him. I don't think they are cheap stats.
 

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They are all great players, all top ten behind GAJ. I always find the "give and go" criticism to be unreasonable, it might just be that the players and coaches know a bit more about the game than the fans, hence his multiple MVP's and AFLCA awards. It strikes me as a good idea to give the ball back to the most highly skilled player and a way of releasing him. I don't think they are cheap stats.
It wasn't a criticism so much as a suggestion his reputation has been enhanced by the large numbers he was getting, but in an era of ever increasing numbers. It's more common across the board now but people were losing it with his 40+ games but they have to be taken in context of those ring a rosey dispoals. I've seen him give 3-4 touches in a phone box but a the end of it all a team mate ends up under enormous pressure and turns it over. However it's also ended up with him kicking a great goal. He's clearly one of the best, if not the best, of his own era. But I disagree the best ever (let alone "it's not even close") and feel just those few players I quickly mentioned were more influential, more often in determining the fate of games in their own teams favour.

I don't rate the ALFPA MVP at all. Players vote for who they think is the best player in the game without seeing the vast majority of the games. Now GAJ probably was the best player in the game when he won them (in an all round sense), but not necessarily the best player that year. That can only ever be determined by round by round voting such as Brownlow, B&Fs and AFLCA. And yeah he has 2 Brownlow's which is wonderful but so do many other players and some have more. The MVP is also an award that doesn't span the history or even a vast majority of the history of the game. There's a reason why Leigh Matthews hasn't got a swag of them.

In the end it's a reasonable opinion to hold so I don't begrudge you yours but it does need to be prefaced (as do all these opinions including mine) with "in my opinion" and no matter who you choose the answer is never "and it's not close".
 
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No don't. It won't be Gary at 1 or 2 with his Dad so it mus be wrong.
There's simply a number of posters on this site whose opinions I give no credence to. I wouldn't even bother responding to. That number grows as the quality of this forum decreases. You're not one but that post was.

Sometimes I wonder whether I've accidentally stumbled onto Bay 13 most of the time now.
 

Sttew

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I don't rate the ALFPA MVP at all. Players vote for who they think is the best player in the game without seeing the vast majority of the games. Now GAJ probably was the best player in the game when he won them (in an all round sense), but not necessarily the best player that year. That can only ever be determined by round by round voting such as Brownlow, B&Fs and AFLCA. And yeah he has 2 Brownlow's which is wonderful but so do many other players and some have more. The MVP is also an award that doesn't span the history or even a vast majority of the history of the game. There's a reason why Leigh Matthews hasn't got a swag of them.
Begs the question - what is the best model for establishing who the best player was in a season? Serious question.
- Media awards are ridiculous as the "journalists" fall in love with certain players and go out of their way to vote for them;
- Brownlow is flawed because the umpires cannot see beyond the midfielders
- the AFLPA award is flawed for the reasons you gave;
- AFLCA award is flawed because you don't know why the coach has rated a player. At least though both coaches get to vote
- B&F's are flawed because the voting criteria is mysterious.
 

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There's simply a number of posters on this site whose opinions I give no credence to. I wouldn't even bother responding to. That number grows as the quality of this forum decreases. You're not one but that post was.

Sometimes I wonder whether I've accidentally stumbled onto Bay 13 most of the time now.
There's nothing unreasonable about the opinion I've posted or anything at all Bay 13 like in the post.

And you're obviously perfectly entitled to disagree with it as I know you do.
 

MinerBoy

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Begs the question - what is the best model for establishing who the best player was in a season? Serious question.
- Media awards are ridiculous as the "journalists" fall in love with certain players and go out of their way to vote for them;
- Brownlow is flawed because the umpires cannot see beyond the midfielders
- the AFLPA award is flawed for the reasons you gave;
- AFLCA award is flawed because you don't know why the coach has rated a player. At least though both coaches get to vote
- B&F's are flawed because the voting criteria is mysterious.
Pros and cons with all I guess. There aren't too many bad winners in any of those awards though. We get the odd surprise or upset but just like this thread topic discussion, opinions will vary.

I rate the Brownlow and certainly it's hard to argue against the merits of the AFLCA when the coaches are voting every week. This isn't to say there are never deserving players who miss out. I just find the credibility of the MVP below these sorts of round by round voting awards, even though it's a nice feather in the cap of players to be acknowledged by their peers.
 

T G M

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It wasn't a criticism so much as a suggestion his reputation has been enhanced by the large numbers he was getting, but in an era of ever increasing numbers. It's more common across the board now but people were losing it with his 40+ games but they have to be taken in context of those ring a rosey dispoals. I've seen him give 3-4 touches in a phone box but a the end of it all a team mate ends up under enormous pressure and turns it over. However it's also ended up with him kicking a great goal. He's clearly one of the best, if not the best, of his own era. But I disagree the best ever (let alone "it's not even close") and feel just those few players I quickly mentioned were more influential, more often in determining the fate of games in their own teams favour.

I don't rate the ALFPA MVP at all. Players vote for who they think is the best player in the game without seeing the vast majority of the games. Now GAJ probably was the best player in the game when he won them (in an all round sense), but not necessarily the best player that year. That can only ever be determined by round by round voting such as Brownlow, B&Fs and AFLCA. And yeah he has 2 Brownlow's which is wonderful but so do many other players and some have more. The MVP is also an award that doesn't span the history or even a vast majority of the history of the game. There's a reason why Leigh Matthews hasn't got a swag of them.

In the end it's a reasonable opinion to hold so I don't begrudge you yours but it does need to be prefaced (as do all these opinions including mine) with "in my opinion" and no matter who you choose the answer is never "and it's not close".
Some fair points. In my opinion, it's not close.
 

PAFC_1870

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Irrespective of whether he's the greatest. I don't think many would select him with the first pick of an AFL all time draft.

I'd still think the Elite Key Forwards would be taken well before.
 

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Irrespective of whether he's the greatest. I don't think many would select him with the first pick of an AFL all time draft.

I'd still think the Elite Key Forwards would be taken well before.
Probably! Having said that, plenty of teams have won premierships without an elite key forward. No teams have won it without an elite midfielder though, at least from what I can remember.
 
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just had a look on buddy’s wikipedia page, “Not a horrible hateful person” isn’t part of his listed career achievements, so don’t piss on me and tell me it’s raining
*Urinates from a great height above your head*
*"It's raining!"*
*Awaits response ("Thanks be to God")*
 

PAFC_1870

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Probably! Having said that, plenty of teams have won premierships without an elite key forward. No teams have won it without an elite midfielder though, at least from what I can remember.
Carey, Buddy, Lockett, His Dad...

All 4 I'd take without even remotely thinking otherwise.

And that's just Key Forwards. Some Backs/Rucks could get a look too.

Midfielders are far far easier to find. Every club has great midfielders.
 
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