List Mgmt. Farewell Ablett - Officially back to the Cats

[OB11]

I think we are going to need him next year if we are going to make a push to turn things around.

No one can offer us more than he is worth to the club and the need for his experience to bring the kids through next year

 

[Mini GF]

I think we are going to need him next year if we are going to make a push to turn things around.

No one can offer us more than he is worth to the club and the need for his experience to bring the kids through next year

With what was revealed by Caroline Wilson in her article it's all over now. GAJ will have to stay.

 

[OB11]

With what was revealed by Caroline Wilson in her article it's all over now. GAJ will have to stay.

Or retire

I still find it interesting that JK hasn't signed with the Cats as it's getting pretty late in the season. We have more than enough picks to get the deal done without needing to involve the little master in any deal.

 

[Mini GF]

^^^^ The pessimism about GAJ going has turned into something different in here in the last week or so. People are starting to see him staying as a more distinct possibility and in some cases a probability.

 

[Cattergirl]

Welcome to the rollercoaster we were on on 2010. Not much fun. Time will tell what Gary's intentions are

 

[Choppers]

Welcome to the rollercoaster we were on on 2010. Not much fun. Time will tell what Gary's intentions are

Maybe you're not sure of the situation but Gary is contracted to the Suns for 2018, so it doesn't really matter what HIS intentions are, although I'm sure they will be considered. As he is under contract, he can only enact his intentions with The Suns approval.
If he wishes to move on for season 2018, he will need the Suns approval. If he wishes to retire, then he will need to come to an arrangement with The Suns regarding the last year of his salary. If he wishes to play out the last season of his contract with the Suns, then so be it.

I don't think it's a rollercoaster at all. It's just one player coming to terms with what he wants....and they normally achieve it....

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Maybe you're not sure of the situation but Gary is contracted to the Suns for 2018, so it doesn't really matter what HIS intentions are, although I'm sure they will be considered. As he is under contract, he can only enact his intentions with The Suns approval.
If he wishes to move on for season 2018, he will need the Suns approval. If he wishes to retire, then he will need to come to an arrangement with The Suns regarding the last year of his salary. If he wishes to play out the last season of his contract with the Suns, then so be it.

I don't think it's a rollercoaster at all. It's just one player coming to terms with what he wants....and they normally achieve it....

Actually that's not true, he can just elect to retire and go anytime he wants he just forfeits his 2018 salary, he only has to come to an arrangement if he wants to retire AND get the majority of his money. Technical point I know but important.

Anyway I hope it all sorts itself out one way or another and he isn't retired next year, would be a sad (albeit understandable) end to a great career if it went out that way.

 

[Choppers]

Actually that's not true, he can just elect to retire and go anytime he wants he just forfeits his 2018 salary, he only has to come to an arrangement if he wants to retire AND get the majority of his money. Technical point I know but important.

Anyway I hope it all sorts itself out one way or another and he isn't retired next year, would be a sad (albeit understandable) end to a great career if it went out that way.

That's fair enough but as I understand it, his contract was hugely front ended, meaning he has already received the major part of his 2018 salary. That's the reason I stated he needs to come to an arrangement if he wishes to retire.
I also agree with you that I'd like to see him continue playing, wherever that may be.....

 

[SunsBhoy]

That's fair enough but as I understand it, his contract was hugely front ended, meaning he has already received the major part of his 2018 salary. That's the reason I stated he needs to come to an arrangement if he wishes to retire.
I also agree with you that I'd like to see him continue playing, wherever that may be.....

Yeah there is no chance gaz retiring , he might have to fork out up to 400k to the club , hopefully the cats can come to the table with a decent offer so it goes smoothly.


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[Fat Pizza]

That's fair enough but as I understand it, his contract was hugely front ended, meaning he has already received the major part of his 2018 salary. That's the reason I stated he needs to come to an arrangement if he wishes to retire.
I also agree with you that I'd like to see him continue playing, wherever that may be.....

Why would he have to pay any salary back if he retires? Wouldn't his contract just say his 2018 season isn't worth as much as 2016 or 2017? I reckon we'd just miss out on his services & he'd miss out on the 2018 portion of his salary.

If he wants to play at another club though, that's a different matter. The Suns are entitled to say we're not letting you go unless the other club gives us a player we want & pays part of that player's salary, because otherwise it isn't worth us letting you go.

 

[Choppers]

Why would he have to pay any salary back if he retires? Wouldn't his contract just say his 2018 season isn't worth as much as 2016 or 2017? I reckon we'd just miss out on his services & he'd miss out on the 2018 portion of his salary.

If he wants to play at another club though, that's a different matter. The Suns are entitled to say we're not letting you go unless the other club gives us a player we want & pays part of that player's salary, because otherwise it isn't worth us letting you go.

Maybe you're correct, I'm not quite sure how it works but I would envisage something like this....Gary wants 3 yrs at $1m per yr but I need to buy a house so I want 2.5mil up front....The Club agrees and gives him the dough. Now Gaz wants out (hypothetically). He's already been paid $500k for 2018 and he's not going to play. Surely he has to pay that back. He's been paid for services not forthcoming.

As I said, I'm not sure how it all goes down. And I don't think he's going to retire anyway....

 

[Mini GF]

If he has had a front ended contract then as a member I'd expect some money to be paid back given the money I have put into the club.
He's taken more money than he has promised to give us in service.
That's unacceptable. It's like a Con Job.

 

[Stroppy]

If he has had a front ended contract then as a member I'd expect some money to be paid back given the money I have put into the club.
He's taken more money than he has promised to give us in service.
That's unacceptable. It's like a Con Job.

Not a con job. Happens all the time. Clubs want to do this when they have a year or 2 with extra space in the cap. Front loading is apparently pretty common.

For Gaz, pay extra in 2016 and 2017 to have more room in 2018 to try and get an expensive free agent. It sounds like they were trying hard to get Fyfe with that extra space. Hopefully they are ready to throw money at a few other youngish players on the move.

But you are right in that it does impact his value to the club for 2018. A Gaz departure would not free up cap space for us and the Suns will want some decent compo given that Gaz is 'only' due something like $500k next year when he is worth more than that.

Caro Wilson has pointed this out recently and says that the Suns are expecting a decent return if he wants to go.

 

[Mini GF]

Not a con job. Happens all the time. Clubs want to do this when they have a year or 2 with extra space in the cap. Front loading is apparently pretty common.

For Gaz, pay extra in 2016 and 2017 to have more room in 2018 to try and get an expensive free agent. It sounds like they were trying hard to get Fyfe with that extra space. Hopefully they are ready to throw money at a few other youngish players on the move.

But you are right in that it does impact his value to the club for 2018. A Gaz departure would not free up cap space for us and the Suns will want some decent compo given that Gaz is 'only' due something like $500k next year when he is worth more than that.

Caro Wilson has pointed this out recently and says that the Suns are expecting a decent return if he wants to go.

If someone says I'll work for you for 3 years for say 3million and he works for you for 2 years and you pay him 2.5million and he then says I'm now not going to give you Year number 3 even though you overpaid me in years 1 and 2, then to me that's a massive rip off.

He's been made fantastically wealthy by the afl, the sponsors and by us members.

If his contract is massively front ended then he's staying, just on general principle he's required to stay.

And if he retires then he can pay back some of that front ended money.

It's all moot though now, he's not going anywhere. The Geelong element is now just a fantasy for them.

 

[Scotty_222]

If someone says I'll work for you for 3 years for say 3million and he works for you for 2 years and you pay him 2.5million and he then says I'm now not going to give you Year number 3 even though you overpaid me in years 1 and 2, then to me that's a massive rip off.

He's been made fantastically wealthy by the afl, the sponsors and by us members.

If his contract is massively front ended then he's staying, just on general principle he's required to stay.

And if he retires then he can pay back some of that front ended money.

It's all moot though now, he's not going anywhere. The Geelong element is now just a fantasy for them.

Obviously dont understand how professional sport works.
These deals happen all the time.
Sometimes you recoup your costs, sometimes you dont.

Look at sports overseas, money goes flying around all the time. They just give it away...

 

[Mini GF]

Obviously dont understand how professional sport works.
These deals happen all the time.
Sometimes you recoup your costs, sometimes you dont.

Look at sports overseas, money goes flying around all the time. They just give it away...

argg the pro sport chestnut. The it's ok to be a lowlife line. No thanks, I don't want Oz Sport to go down the O/S line. I Must have more belief in integrity. Yeah I won't be saying all is fair and going down the it's ok to be decrepit line.

 

[Scotty_222]

argg the pro sport chestnut. The it's ok to be a lowlife line. No thanks, I don't want Oz Sport to go down the O/S line. I Must have more belief in integrity. Yeah I won't be saying all is fair and going down the it's ok to be decrepit line.

Our whole game is modelled on American sports..

 

[Mini GF]

Our whole game is modelled on American sports..

Yeah Scotty, that's true in the AFL with the draft and now the bringing in of Free Agency etc. yeah the tribalism I long for is going going....

It's going to be hard for some of us to really embrace it.

I still think that this top ended situation will mean GAJ will have to stay though.

 

[Scotty_222]

The club will try to do what's in its best interests.. doesn't always end up happening that way.. the jaeger trade last year is a prime example

 

[Suns of Anarchy]

he's already half gone, he only plays at Metricon these days.

 

[OB11]

Obviously dont understand how professional sport works.
These deals happen all the time.
Sometimes you recoup your costs, sometimes you dont.

Look at sports overseas, money goes flying around all the time. They just give it away...

AFL is a step behind the US model - in the NBA they don't allow heavily front loaded contracts, with long term contracts only allowed to be marginally decreased in the latter years.

I feel ripped off that he may have in the back of his mind knew that he might want to do this and have his cake and eat it too. From all reports it was Gary and his management who pushed for the 3rd year, presumably so he can jack up his price in the first 2 years, and now he potentially doesn't want to see out his contract.

Hopefully the dodgy hamstrings will scare the Cats off being interested.

 

[Mini GF]

AFL is a step behind the US model - in the NBA they don't allow heavily front loaded contracts, with long term contracts only allowed to be marginally decreased in the latter years.

I feel ripped off that he may have in the back of his mind knew that he might want to do this and have his cake and eat it too. From all reports it was Gary and his management who pushed for the 3rd year, presumably so he can jack up his price in the first 2 years, and now he potentially doesn't want to see out his contract.

Hopefully the dodgy hamstrings will scare the Cats off being interested.

Well thank you for posting that because Scotty retort was like what he says is absolute gospel and now thanks to you I'm aware that is not necessarily the case.

Well that makes a huge difference that contracts are regulated to be even which is the opposite of "happens all the time."

Gee maybe the great professor of professional sport is not always right. Wow.

So back to GAJ-well once again it shows that this act of his and his managers is really smelly at best and at worst it's a dog act of manipulative selfish men.

For the time being I'll give GAJ the benefit of the doubt and just say it's smelly and he is now realising that he needs to stay or pay some money back if he leaves or retires.

 

[Scotty_222]

Well thank you for posting that because Scotty retort was like what he says is absolute gospel and now thanks to you I'm aware that is not necessarily the case.

Well that makes a huge difference that contracts are regulated to be even which is the opposite of "happens all the time."

Gee maybe the great professor of professional sport is not always right. Wow.

So back to GAJ-well once again it shows that this act of his and his managers is really smelly at best and at worst it's a dog act of manipulative selfish men.

For the time being I'll give GAJ the benefit of the doubt and just say it's smelly and he is now realising that he needs to stay or pay some money back if he leaves or retires.

How was I saying it's gospel?

Our game is heavily modelled on the America sports. We do some stuff exactly the same, doesn't mean we do everything they do down to the same pens they use to sign contracts..

Geez..

 

[Dammit]

it's regulated, but it happens pretty frequently in the NBA.

for instance, for non-superstars it's typical for them to have 2 year contracts for say $13 mill. the first year they get $7 mill guaranteed, the second year is often non-guaranteed, with a team or player option. if the team/player opted in, they'd play and recurve the remaining $6 mill. if they opted out, the player is not guaranteed there $6 mill, but a nominal amount would count against that teams salary cap regardless - in this instance it might be $1 mill.

 

[shaqsuns]

Well thank you for posting that because Scotty retort was like what he says is absolute gospel and now thanks to you I'm aware that is not necessarily the case.

Well that makes a huge difference that contracts are regulated to be even which is the opposite of "happens all the time."

Gee maybe the great professor of professional sport is not always right. Wow.

So back to GAJ-well once again it shows that this act of his and his managers is really smelly at best and at worst it's a dog act of manipulative selfish men.

For the time being I'll give GAJ the benefit of the doubt and just say it's smelly and he is now realising that he needs to stay or pay some money back if he leaves or retires.

This definitely smells last week he had no sign of a sore hamstring, what makes it more fishy is every game he has had since having a week off he has been close to best on ground now I would love to give gaz the benefit of doubt but if players are injured they rarely produce.


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