- Apr 23, 2016
- AFL Club
Did you bother to read what I wrote or just make up your own imaginary arguments and run with it?1. That's a very cute attempt to spin and play on words/phrases there. Sure, refusal to create something against a person's values; but if those values are discriminatory, then it's discrimination. If your values are to see gay people as wrong and repugnant, and not creating anything for them as a result, then that is discriminating against gay people. It's cute that you spin it like the discriminators are the ones defending their own rights, but they are actually subverting others' rights
If I refuse to create anything for black people because it's against my values of thinking black people are inferior, I'd still be racist, except I'm doing it disingenuously.
2. What a silly comparison, if a Neo-nazi is telling you to write racist messages on a cake, then they are the ones being racist, they are the ones breaking anti-discrimination laws. Not only should you not make that cake for them, you can call the cops on them. You shouldn't be committing criminal activity even for business.
I find all these dumb scenarios where somehow the customers are asking the baker to write the most improbable messages quite hilarious, they are creating absurd scenarios to justify what they know is discrimination on their part
3. Except you are conveniently forgetting the different situations of employer and employee: sure, refuse to do work with certain people as a company's employee and you will receive consequences for it from the employer, and so you should; but bakeries where the guy refusing to bake the cake for gay people who are going to be owners of that business and therefore the employers, no one will take them to account within their own business, except for the law. That is why anti-discrimination laws are in place, to hold employers to account where they otherwise can't be, not the employees
Christian employers are precisely trying to subvert those discrimination laws' ability to hold their homophobia to account, that is why this whole melodrama about gay wedding cakes kicked off in the first place; Christians want to keep gay people out of their business, but they know they'd be breaking anti-discrimination laws. Hence the wink wink nudge nudge and wah wah crying to the courts to make sure those laws don't apply specifically to Christians
Someone has quite literally shopped around to find a group of beauticians who won't perform a brazilian wax on their male genitalia even though they identify as female in order to pursue legal action against them. Acting as though these people are somehow nonexistent is disingenuous.
The premise is; should someone be able to be forced to create something they don't want to - for whatever reason. You clearly want to be able to to force people to do things you want, with no recourse, for if they refuse you want legal repercussions.
Were it simply a transaction of; a cake is already baked, on the shelf, and they refused to serve an individual for some reason, I would agree they shouldn't be able to do so.
There's plenty of racist things a neo-nazi could say that doesn't contravene anti-discrimination laws but that would be (rightly) refused to be done were you a Jewish or African baker. Same as there being plenty of things you could ask a gay baker to write that would be offensive but not illegal, should they be forced to do so?
You want to be able to use the law to force people to create anything you deem acceptable, whether they want to or not.
Raging homophobe right? Only refusing to make cakes for those gay people.Phillips, however, maintained during an interview with “Today,” that he would “serve everybody.”
“It's just that I don't create cakes for every occasion they ask me to create,” he said.
“I don't discriminate against anybody — I serve everybody that comes in my shop,” Phillips said. “I don't create cakes for every message that people ask me to create.
“This cake is a specific cake, a wedding cake is an inherently religious event and the cake is definitely a specific message,” Phillips said, explaining his objection to making the wedding cake for the same-sex wedding.
Should he be forced to make cakes with Anti-American sentiment? For Halloween?But Phillips said there were several other messages he would never agree to put on any of his cakes — including anything that would disparage a member of the LGBTQ community.
'I don't create cakes for Halloween, I wouldn't create a cake that would be anti-American or disparaging against anybody for any reason, even cakes that would disparage people who identify as LGBT,” he said. "Cakes have a message and this is one I can't create."
Surely under your guidelines he's a baker, therefore he must bake whatever cake you ask for right? With whatever message you're paying for right?