The Law Gay Couples Vs Christian bakers

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Yes facts like stating they are more likely to engage in unsafe sex practices and have a higher rate of STD.
So you’re standing in front of individuals and telling them their chances of unsafe sex??
 
Apr 24, 2013
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So you’re standing in front of individuals and telling them their chances of unsafe sex??

Timme, surely you don't have the lack of taste to actually do this, or think this?

If so, then it's no wonder you experience difficulties.
 
So you’re standing in front of individuals and telling them their chances of unsafe sex??
I grow up in the shadow of AIDS we wore our wellies religiously, it's the younguns who now know AIDS can be treated that are getting a bit careless, what they don't realise about the actual treatment is that it's still a real life changer.
 
Just like it would be nice if people weren't getting harassed and attacked by gay people who don't want to respect their beliefs and were looking to make a point.
They aren't even close to being the same thing
 

Evolved1

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Homosexuals aren't morally purer than anyone else, and many do exhibit a sociopolitically inherited neurosis that leads to irrational behavior in a contemporary setting.
I'll ignore your opening strawman argument.

Homosexuals have faced systematic discrimination that has persisted through several generations after European colonialization of Australia, and is only now being challenged both legally and culturally.

Your anti-homosexual rants speak of the irrational mindset that you continually project onto others.
 
Could you imagine the s*** storm this would cause here, imagine lagging behind Trump's America on this sort of thin? Half the government partyroom can't even abide by the thought of educating kids about alternate sexualities, let alone our proud history as one of the most successful liberation movements ever.
Maryland school officials are developing curriculum standards for history classes to include lessons about the fight for civil rights for the LGBT community and Americans with disabilities.


If the changes are approved, Maryland would join at least four other states that have taken steps to require public schools to teach lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender history, which advocates say has long been absent from textbooks and classroom lessons.


Last month, dozens of state lawmakers signed a letter calling on Maryland school officials to craft new curriculum standards addressing the rights of LGBT and disabled communities. The letter specifically mentioned the 50th anniversary in June of the Stonewall riots in Manhattan, and the other states that have recently passed similar standards through legislation.
 
Your ideology would damage much of the progress our nation has made through institutionalised equality.

What about treatment of employees?

If we rely on businesses to do the right thing without a punishment and/or reward system to incentivize behaviour, you can be sure businesses wont follow it.

People freely entering into agreements is the very spirit of what I'm talking about. If the employees don't want to enter into the agreement, they don't. They shouldn't pressure other people not to accept those terms though, that literally isn't their business.

The market will set the rate, when state regulation comes in under the guise of protecting the worker from the big evil business it distorts the reality. Minimum wage was great, but it also cost people a job. People who were willing to work for that lower amount. etc

I think as a community we can best determine what course of action is best for the community. My ideology removes the power of the government, which removes the power of big business lobbying to influence that power.

I'm not so great at laying it all out on a Saturday morning after two kids were upset about hail but whenever the people build a power system and give it to a few to look after them with those who were already powerful quickly take control of that too except now the people think it's for them.
 
Aug 21, 2016
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No worries. They can just put up a sign detailing which of their services they wish deny to people.

Are you talking about a state imposed public declaration by every business that lists the products it doesn't make? So a tyre company should state it doesn't sell telephones. Or pies. Or financial advice.

If you mean a voluntary measure then why would a business open itself up to being targeted by people who don't actually want to buy the product but are just seeking to drag the business through the courts for political reasons?
 

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I've no reason to disbelieve him but if he came to a gay club and starts behaving like he posts I'm not actually that surprised he got a hiding. If you knowingly go into a gay bar and then arc up every time someone grabs your arse or chats you up, you have to ask yourself; why were you there in the first place?

There's clearly a double standard where gay businesses can exclude non gay customers but the same people make a fuss about the cake issue.

I don't think it's acceptable for someone to grab your arse whether in a gay club or otherwise.
 
Are you talking about a state imposed public declaration by every business that lists the products it doesn't make? So a tyre company should state it doesn't sell telephones. Or pies. Or financial advice.

If you mean a voluntary measure then why would a business open itself up to being targeted by people who don't actually want to buy the product but are just seeking to drag the business through the courts for political reasons?
It seems to me this wider religious freedom debate seems be religions wanting to have the right to discriminate but not be overt about it lest it puts others off using their business. If it becomes legal to discriminate against certain sections of the population then by all means mandate that a sign must appear on your business saying that you will not be serving these people, it can be very simple, just an elegant notice with a cross or a crescent moon on it. As I said then we can let the market decide on the wisdom of the decision.
 
Aug 21, 2016
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It seems to me this wider religious freedom debate seems be religions wanting to have the right to discriminate but not be overt about it lest it puts others off using their business. If it becomes legal to discriminate against certain sections of the population then by all means mandate that a sign must appear on your business saying that you will not be serving these people, it can be very simple, just an elegant notice with a cross or a crescent moon on it. As I said then we can let the market decide on the wisdom of the decision.

You are going backward on your own argument. As we have agreed, businesses are not discriminating against 'these people'. They are choosing to not make certain products. Signs with crosses or moons don't convey the detail of what a particular business offers.

Are you in favour or against these mandatory notices with a sign of a cross or a crescent moon labelling each business?
 
You are going backward on your own argument. As we have agreed, businesses are not discriminating against 'these people'. They are choosing to not make certain products. Signs with crosses or moons don't convey the detail of what a particular business offers.

Are you in favour or against these mandatory notices with a sign of a cross or a crescent moon labelling each business?
If a baker offers cake decorations to order, surely they'd need to have very good reasons for denying someone's request? If they don't offer any decorations then fine, but if they do then any reasonable requests shouldn't be able to be denied due to their own bigotry. But yes, if they don't do cake decorations (or whatever) then fine, no issue.
 
Apr 24, 2013
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I'll ignore your opening strawman argument.

You can't selectively "ignore" things that are beyond your intellectual comprehension, which is highlighted by your generic emotion driven framing of such matters, highlighted by the drivel below.

Homosexuals have faced systematic discrimination that has persisted through several generations after European colonialization of Australia, and is only now being challenged both legally and culturally.

"Faced" is past tense and in line with my fundamental premise.

Your anti-homosexual rants speak of the irrational mindset that you continually project onto others.

Now you arrive at the typical lazy conclusion based upon your very own straw man.

Welcome to stupidville, at least you won't be lonely.
 
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Sainteric

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If a baker offers cake decorations to order, surely they'd need to have very good reasons for denying someone's request? If they don't offer any decorations then fine, but if they do then any reasonable requests shouldn't be able to be denied due to their own bigotry. But yes, if they don't do cake decorations (or whatever) then fine, no issue.
So making a cake with 'i support Pol Pot/the SS' is ok?
 
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If a baker offers cake decorations to order, surely they'd need to have very good reasons for denying someone's request? If they don't offer any decorations then fine, but if they do then any reasonable requests shouldn't be able to be denied due to their own bigotry. But yes, if they don't do cake decorations (or whatever) then fine, no issue.

'Reasonable' is wholly subjective. What you call bigotry someone else might call deeply held personal beliefs. Should a vegan cake maker be forced to make a cake celebrating the 20th anniversary of the local butcher?
 
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Is there some kind of middle ground here? If civil society accepts that a business has the right to turn away clients based on whatever whim they so choose surely potential customers also have the right to know straight away that their money and their custom will be no good inside that particular business? I believe we all should have that right as consumers to make an informed choice before we buy.

A prominent symbol on the business logo, one that will leave no doubt as to the business owners' intent, might be the way to go. Then again, if we grant this ability to discriminate where will it end? Does it become a 'slippery slope' kind of thing?
 

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