Strategy Geelong’s teamwork & cohesion

[strauchnyy]

... under Scott.

I see it. You see it.. and year on year NOTHING is done about it. I’ve been thinking about it a while and last night’s game has caused me to start a thread on it in the hope that it gets more oxygen. We will never improve until this is resolved and the purpose of this thread is to discuss this obvious flaw and work out some ways to fix the problem. Maybe there are media people reading this who can give it more attention so that the club addresses it. I can only hope, because we are going nowhere as a club until this is resolved on and off the field.

Our lack of team cohesion, especially in big games, is our number one weakness that is the core reason we underperform with the individuals we have.

We are a team if individuals that win games on the back of super performances from individuals. The media are dumbfounded at how our midfield performs so poorly despite our ‘holy trinity’ and the answer is so glaringly obvious. Danger runs one way, Ablett has no defensive pressure, Duncan doesn’t know his role since Ablett arrival, selwood gets tagged and fights behind the ball and no one blocks for each other. No.teamwork.whatsoever.

- no one helps joel when he is hit behind play, nor do they block and intimidate the tagger, this causes joel to do silly things

- no one shepherds, blocks or protects, rather - players run away looking for the cheap hb. The player gets tackled and is why we succumb to pressure

- there is NO system to our game style, it’s dangerwood bombing to Hawkins and hoping for the best. Scott has not done anything about this since 2012!

- there is NO system to our foward line

- why is their no defensive pressure? Players like Menegola trying to be the hero or danger burning team mates to go for glory and do things himself

- why is it we run it quickly down the ground only to see Hawkins on 3 defenders? Why are players unable to read their team mate’s play and get into position?

- the team does not celebrate with each other, you can see it in their body language, they hardly sing our song with any heart - I know that sounds childish but it speaks volumes in terms of chemistry

It’s like the players don’t talk or spend anytime with each other off the field. If you plucked 22 random players across the country and put them together, it’d resemble Geelong.

Richmond are not that much better individually but they play as a cohesive unit. So do Melbourne and the other top teams. They knock it on to each other, do the basics right, know where to stand and expect possession. Meanwhile we are out of position giving it to players under greater pressure.

Out lack of team cohesion is also why our bottom 6 are exposed. In a system, they’d play a role, be a cog in the machine which hides individual weaknesses.

This is not another thread on Scott and the coaches but it is their fault. Scott has been there for 7 years+ and STILL fails to get the team to gell and to the teamwork basics. I CANNOT believe this has not been given any media attention. I’m dumbfounded. Instead he is given an extension after we fail year in year out with the same problems ALL STEMMING FROM THE SINGLE FACT -WE LACK TEAM COHESION AND TEAMWORK.

I watched us lose yet another final through lack of cohesion and I’m bloody sick of it, it needs air time and needs to be brought to the front of every Geelong fans attention, so please.. what are your thoughts on how this is fixed? What can the club to do remedy our biggest weakness?

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Thread will be short, there isn't any to discuss.

 

[strauchnyy]

Can we build team cohesion under scott and co? That may be the more relevant question.

Do we need an 06’ type review?

Is it just more games together?

Or is the only solution to draft in batches, build from the bottom?

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Can we build team cohesion under scott and co? That may be the more relevant question. Not sure you can.

Do we need an 06’ type review? Absolutely

Is it just more games together? Yes, it's definitely part of the answer.

Or is the only solution to draft in batches, build from the bottom? 1; too late, and 2; the club won't allow it.

 

[cynical]

cant build cohesion when you are topping up each year

have to start again and build a group of talented young kids who play together for many years

team first attitude, not self centered players like Danger, Ablett and Menzel

 

[CatToTheFuture]

A lot of the team chemistry is probably missing because lots of them haven't played a lot of footy together, whether due to being recent draftees or recently traded into the side. It has been a very turbulent list. I think losing Mack and Domsy hurt us in more than just structure.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

A lot of the team chemistry is probably missing because lots of them haven't played a lot of footy together, whether due to being recent draftees or recently traded into the side. It has been a very turbulent list. I think losing Mack and Domsy hurt us in more than just structure.

Yet every new star has to bew accommodated. Move back everyone, Dahlhus is coming.

 

[strauchnyy]

It’s why we shouldn’t be trading away R1 or R2 picks anymore.

I’d look to a full rebuild in the next year or so and draft in batches.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Can we build team cohesion under scott and co? That may be the more relevant question.

Do we need an 06’ type review?

Is it just more games together?

Or is the only solution to draft in batches, build from the bottom?

One thing I'd add is that building from the bottom looks a lost cause. Has it worked at all post free agency? You can draft every promising kid in the top 10 but if they're getting pounded every week hope long are they sticking around? An '06 level review might not be warranted. We need to look at forward line and midfield coaching roles at a minimum but probably best not to get super creative.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Yet every new star has to bew accommodated. Move back everyone, Dahlhus is coming.

Dahlhaus wouldn't be the worst idea. He's fairly cheap and fills a hole in the forward line. You can only play so many kids before you start getting pounded every week and kids develop faster if you don't give them ptsd. Bare in mind that it looks like we'll be bringing him in with another 4-5 teenagers for 2019.

 

[SkittleCats]

Ask yourself: If Scott was on the cusp of getting the sack, would any player on this list be prepared to ring a journo and threaten to quit the club if Scott were fired (ala Scarlett in 2006)? My guess is no, not a single player would. We see it each week, this team does enough to win and that's it, and when we are challenged it's up to the top 4-6 players to drag us over the line on talent alone or we will lose. Scott simply isnt getting the most out of this list, the players arent playing for him, they havent bought into his "system". The juxtaposition between us and Richmond, Melbourne, Collingwood, and even the Bulldogs of 2 years ago is stunning. Those teams have a list who've bought into what the coach is telling them and are out there playing for him. We haven't and we don't.

So when you combine that with our idiotic selection, mind numbing list management over the last 3 years, structures that simply dont make sense, and a forward line that is dysfunctional, it all snowballs into what should have been an extinction level event for Chris Scott's tenure as Geelong's coach last night. But instead we have him for 4 more years!

In my view the list is and will remain for atleast 2019 capable of contending for the flag. But the coach is the difference, and so long as he is there we will simply see what happened last night repeated over and over again. Last night was a carbon copy of the 2017 Qualifying Final, nothing has changed for us in the intervening year, and nothing will so long as Scott remains coach. Cook and Carter should be made to explain to every member why Scott had his contract extended now, or the board should begin the process of replacing all 3 of them. Good to great? We are going the other way; from great to good to mediocre under Scott.

 

[strauchnyy]

Ask yourself: If Scott was on the cusp of getting the sack, would any player on this list be prepared to ring a journo and threaten to quit the club if Scott were fired (ala Scarlett in 2006)? My guess is no, not a single player would. We see it each week, this team does enough to win and that's it, and when we are challenged it's up to the top 4-6 players to drag us over the line on talent alone or we will lose. Scott simply isnt getting the most out of this list, the players arent playing for him, they havent bought in to his "system". The juxtaposition between us and Richmond, Melbourne, Collingwood, and even the Bulldogs of 2 years ago is stunning. Those teams have a list who've bought into what the coach is telling them and are out there playing for him. We haven't and we don't.

So when you combine that with our idiotic selection, mind numbing list management over the last 3 years, structures that simply dont make sense, and a forward line that is dysfunctional, it all snowballs into what should have been an extinction level event for Chris Scott's tenure as Geelong's coach last night. But instead we have him for 4 more years!

In my view the list is and will remain for atleast 2019 capable of contending for the flag. But the coach is the difference, and so long as he is there we will simply see what happened last night repeated over and over again. Last night was a carbon copy of the 2017 Qualifying Final, nothing has changed for us in the intervening year, and nothing will so long as Scott remains coach. Cook and Carter should be made to explain to every member why Scott had his contract extended now, or the board should begin the process of replacing all 3 of them. Good to great? We are going the other way; from great to good to mediocre under Scott.

100% spot on.

I sense every cats fan has this view.

How does the media not see it? My single greatest hope is that out of last nights loss, the spotlight is out on Scott, cook & carter

 

[cynical]

One thing I'd add is that building from the bottom looks a lost cause. Has it worked at all post free agency? You can draft every promising kid in the top 10 but if they're getting pounded every week hope long are they sticking around? An '06 level review might not be warranted. We need to look at forward line and midfield coaching roles at a minimum but probably best not to get super creative.

It's a myth that young players are all going to jump ship when the club is down the bottom.

Players leave when the club is making poor decisions and not going anywhere.

I would think the ultimate goal for most players would be to play for a team down the bottom, have close bonds with other players at the club and then win a flag with those same players later down the line.

 

[Partridge]

It's a myth that young players are all going to jump ship when the club is down the bottom.

Players leave when the club is making poor decisions and not going anywhere.

I would think the ultimate goal for most players would be to play for a team down the bottom, have close bonds with other players at the club and then win a flag with those same players later down the line.

It’s also a myth they have to be down the bottom. We haven’t been for thirty plus years. We haven’t been truly poor for consecutive years for nearly 50 years.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

I found something interesting listening to SEN, they were talking about the Cats lose and how they don't see any genuine system or structure to the Cats game and instead say it seems from their point of view that the Cats play a "talent" style. They back their "greater" talent to win the contest against their direct opponent in individual positions. That would BREED this very selfish football we play and doesn't even remotely sound or look like a style or system that would ever be successful.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

It's a myth that young players are all going to jump ship when the club is down the bottom.

Players leave when the club is making poor decisions and not going anywhere.

I would think the ultimate goal for most players would be to play for a team down the bottom, have close bonds with other players at the club and then win a flag with those same players later down the line.

So you're saying Jack Lukosius is salivating at the prospect of spending 3 or 4 years getting atrocious delivery in the Carlton fwd line?

 

[RegHickeyStand]

Dahlhaus wouldn't be the worst idea. He's fairly cheap and fills a hole in the forward line. You can only play so many kids before you start getting pounded every week and kids develop faster if you don't give them ptsd. Bare in mind that it looks like we'll be bringing him in with another 4-5 teenagers for 2019.

What hole in the forward line? At one stage early in the 1st qtr Ablett was our sole forward. Heaven forfend that we get a quick kick out and we stream down the ground. Which we did, with Ablett by himself, monstered. Dahlhus is not going to solve the problem of stupid. He is just going to be pushing out another promising young foward, and providing us with yet another unsettling element. Yes, at one point we needed an in and under mid. And at one point (for quite a while) we needed a ruck. But we don't need Dahlhus. At all.

We need to get a young reserves side and develop them. And we need a settled senior side. No more ******* Abletts and Dangerfields and the latest FA star.

And we need to skill up who we already have!

 

[fpm84]

I think the lack of cohesion within the team is our biggest problem.

It manifests itself on the ground such as in our bizarre kick-in strategy which generally involves Tuohy or Stewart kicking the ball 60m straight down the middle which directly leads to multiple opposition scores each and every week. Seriously WTF?

It’s also evident as others have said in the little things - the inability to get in the face of the taggers who scrag Selwood every week; the lack of blocks, taps and knock-ons that teams like Richmond (and Hawthorn in their prime) mastered; and a lack of ‘getting around the guys’ - how often do we see players run to a teammate to congratulate them on a gutsy spoil?

Look at the enthusiasm and hunger Melbourne played with last night. And Collingwood for most of the year. And Richmond and the Bulldogs over the last two finals series. When is the last time we played with such four quarter intent? Perhaps the Bulldogs game at KP last year.

One thing all those teams have in common is a lack of recent success and a hunger throughout the entire club - fans, players, coaches. The fact we are perennial finalists seems to mean that we don’t have the same desire as those others, and it’s a slap in the face.

It might be minor, but I ABSOLUTEY HATE the way we stand individually during the national anthem while our opponents (Melb last night, Richmond last year) stand with arms linked. Surprise surprise, they play like they are united and we play like a bunch of individuals.

Anyone who’s read anything about Richmond’s flag year would know the club introduced a pre-season bonding activity where every player got up in front of the entire group and spoke about hardships they’d faced. This was directly attributed to the way they played as a galvanised unit during the year - I think I read a quote along the lines of “how can you let these guys down on the field when you know about how they got here and what it means to them?”

We saw the benefit of Leading Teams in 2007 and we have to find a similar way to create cohesion.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

What hole in the forward line? At one stage early in the 1st qtr Ablett was our sole forward. Heaven forfend that we get a quick kick out and we stream down the ground. Which we did, with Ablett by himself, monstered. Dahlhus is not going to solve the problem of stupid. He is just going to be pushing out another promising young foward, and providing us with yet another an unsettling element. Yes, at one point we needed an in and under mid. And at one point (for quite a while) we needed a ruck. But we don't need Dahlhus. At all.

We need to gewt a young reserves side and develop them. And we need a settled senior side. No more ******* Abletts and Dangerfields and the latest FA star.

And we need to skill up who we already have!

What promising young forward is he pushing out?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I think the lack of cohesion within the team is our biggest problem.

It manifests itself on the ground such as in our bizarre kick-in strategy which generally involves Tuohy or Stewart kicking the ball 60m straight down the middle which directly leads to multiple opposition scores each and every week. Seriously WTF?

It’s also evident as others have said in the little things - the inability to get in the face of the taggers who scrag Selwood every week; the lack of blocks, taps and knock-ons that teams like Richmond (and Hawthorn in their prime) mastered; and a lack of ‘getting around the guys’ - how often do we see players run to a teammate to congratulate them on a gutsy spoil?

Look at the enthusiasm and hunger Melbourne played with last night. And Collingwood for most of the year. And Richmond and the Bulldogs over the last two finals series. When is the last time we played with such four quarter intent? Perhaps the Bulldogs game at KP last year.

One thing all those teams have in common is a lack of recent success and a hunger throughout the entire club - fans, players, coaches. The fact we are perennial finalists seems to mean that we don’t have the same desire as those others, and it’s a slap in the face.

It might be minor, but I ABSOLUTEY HATE the way we stand individually during the national anthem while our opponents (Melb last night, Richmond last year) stand with arms linked. Surprise surprise, they play like they are united and we play like a bunch of individuals.

Anyone who’s read anything about Richmond’s flag year would know the club introduced a pre-season bonding activity where every player got up in front of the entire group and spoke about hardships they’d faced. This was directly attributed to the way they played as a galvanised unit during the year - I think I read a quote along the lines of “how can you let these guys down on the field when you know about how they got here and what it means to them?”

We saw the benefit of Leading Teams in 2007 and we have to find a similar way to create cohesion.

Pre-season camp i agree we probably need with the number of fresh faces we have and will have. With the crows camp though they seem to have tried to manufacture something and gone too far. They need more than a couple of trust falls in any case

 

[Down at K Park]

A fresh voice would do wonders. The club is so stale atm.

 

[The Casey Cat]

It’s also a myth they have to be down the bottom. We haven’t been for thirty plus years. We haven’t been truly poor for consecutive years for nearly 50 years.

Yep. You don't need to bottom out or necessarily dump all your oldies. You do need to be honest enough to ask yourself some tough questions as a club at all levels. It's our unwillingness to do that rather than bottom out that is our problem.

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[The Casey Cat]

Said it on triple m too. They were right too.

I found something interesting listening to SEN, they were talking about the Cats lose and how they don't see any genuine system or structure to the Cats game and instead say it seems from their point of view that the Cats play a "talent" style. They back their "greater" talent to win the contest against their direct opponent in individual positions. That would BREED this very selfish football we play and doesn't even remotely sound or look like a style or system that would ever be successful.

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[Turkey Tom]

cant build cohesion when you are topping up each year

have to start again and build a group of talented young kids who play together for many years

team first attitude, not self centered players like Danger, Ablett and Menzel

Yep agree. KROCK podcast guys are big on 'cohesion'. Chris Judd is big on 'cohesion'. Have that sixth sense to know where your teammate is and what they are going to do as you have been playing and training together for years.

On another issue:-
Our side has the 'talent' but not the 'skills'....how does that happen!?! Are we using all the 'talent' effectively?

Duncan is a prime example. We know he has the talent, but his skills seem to have gone backwards, or maybe we are just playing him in the wrong role where he can't use his natural skills?
I don't have an answer as I am not really sure what his role is in the team. Personally I would make him a permanent winger...he should be doing what Murdoch is suppose to be doing...run and carry.

 

[The Casey Cat]

I don't buy the lack of skills talk. To me that's something the lack of system, cohesion and willingness to work hard for each other present as.

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