Strategy Geelong’s teamwork & cohesion

[CatToTheFuture]

Yep. You don't need to bottom out or necessarily dump all your oldies. You do need to be honest enough to ask yourself some tough questions as a club at all levels. It's our unwillingness to do that rather than bottom out that is our problem.

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Was not so long ago everyone was roasting the club for moving older players on early. The club is getting roasted now for making trades to bring players in. None of those would be easy decisions in my book. This year they'll move a significant number of players on too as they bring in a bunch of teenagers and that won't be an easy decision either.

 

[Turbocat]

I found something interesting listening to SEN, they were talking about the Cats lose and how they don't see any genuine system or structure to the Cats game and instead say it seems from their point of view that the Cats play a "talent" style. They back their "greater" talent to win the contest against their direct opponent in individual positions. That would BREED this very selfish football we play and doesn't even remotely sound or look like a style or system that would ever be successful.

That is coaching...

One example that bugs me.. it should be drilled that all players get back from their mark aqap .. quickly back so you can not get you kick spoiled. Yet we , and Duncan is a classic.. look to move it one quickly without getting back.. for the sake of a second .. the risk getting smothered and it has happened to Duncan multiple times. All these type of drills probably seem below such talented players..but something tells me that certain clubs would not let it go.

So many players trying to ensure .. "hey I did this or that" ... for mine you never play on or take advantage when you have a setshot 30 out etc.. because if you fluff it.. as Menegola did.. its is so deflating.

 

[Warhorse]

F

That is coaching...

One example that bugs me.. it should be drilled that all players get back from their mark aqap .. quickly back so you can not get you kick spoiled. Yet we , and Duncan is a classic.. look to move it one quickly without getting back.. for the sake of a second .. the risk getting smothered and it has happened to Duncan multiple times. All these type of drills probably seem below such talented players..but something tells me that certain clubs would not let it go.

So many players trying to ensure .. "hey I did this or that" ... for mine you never play on or take advantage when you have a setshot 30 out etc.. because if you fluff it.. as Menegola did.. its is so deflating.

We don't even man the mark properly and give there team an extra 5m every time they mark it.

 

[Turbocat]

F

We don't even man the mark properly and give there team an extra 5m every time they mark it.

whats with the F?



Again ..coaching. Its like that sort of thing is beneath them..same as practicing setshots properly .

 

[Strange Cat]

We were building a great sense of cohension with the backline standing up for the team and each other at the start of the year with all the injuries.

And what happened? Taylor and Hendo were sent straight in to muck it up and it fell apart.

I would be tapping a few of the senior players and telling them they will be having either new roles or should be retiring and let the kids lead the team and build a real sense of team.

Too many individuals players like Ablett and Danger who chokes the life out of any sense of responsibility to the kids by demanding all the attention and action all the time.

Send Danger and Ablett forward and Joel down the back to replace Duncan.

spend the year developing a new midfield and new system, the “leadership” and senior players have had their turn and failed misseribly...enough is enough

 

[RegHickeyStand]

What promising young forward is he pushing out?

Huh?

Just go look up the list and see if you can point out a promising your forward/mid. I got several in mind, but you tell me yours. There are only 18 spots on the ground.

 

[SkittleCats]

Taylor and Hendo were sent straight in to muck it up and it fell apart.

Out defensive structures broke down everytime we played on the MCG this year, it has nothing to do with Hendo and Taylor.

 

[iameviljez]

Just go look up the list and see if you can point out a promising your forward/mid. I got several in mind, but you tell me yours. There are only 18 spots on the ground.

I would have liked to include Fogarty for Murdoch, but seriously the cupboard is pretty bare for smaller players forward of the ball. There's a lot of very raw maybes, but none of them are really AFL-ready.

 

[iameviljez]

Out defensive structures broke down everytime we played on the MCG this year, it has nothing to do with Hendo and Taylor.

Also a lot to do with the fact that we played really, really defensive footy when we had such a raw backline.

 

[RegHickeyStand]

I would have liked to include Fogarty for Murdoch, but seriously the cupboard is pretty bare for smaller players forward of the ball. There's a lot of very raw maybes, but none of them are really AFL-ready.

I would have liked them to risk Narkle instead of Murdoch. But yes, Fogarty. Like I said previously, we don't need 15 youngsters banging on the door for one spot.

As for team instead of stars, our backline was doing best when we had a bunch of no-names playing together for each other.

 

[Boxhead_31]

Don't care what it costs we need to Brendan McCarthy back to the club and back into the development role.

Someone needs to teach our players how to play as a team and how to play football that can handle finals pressure, and there is none better in the game at doing that than Macca.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Huh?

Just go look up the list and see if you can point out a promising your forward/mid. I got several in mind, but you tell me yours. There are only 18 spots on the ground.

Our current forward line is basically our future midfield. We're blooding the new mids forward and wondering why we're not hitting the scoreboard. Fogarty, Parfitt, Narkle are all mids being played out of position. There's plenty of room there.

 

[UnitedWarrior93]

It’s non existent. We’re a team of individuals, and nothing will change in 2019.

Just accept it as the ******* club clearly does.

 

[Footy_Fan2007]

They haven't played for each other for years. It won't change in the near future unfortunately.

 

[dazbroncos]

I think the lack of cohesion within the team is our biggest problem.

It manifests itself on the ground such as in our bizarre kick-in strategy which generally involves Tuohy or Stewart kicking the ball 60m straight down the middle which directly leads to multiple opposition scores each and every week. Seriously WTF?

It’s also evident as others have said in the little things - the inability to get in the face of the taggers who scrag Selwood every week; the lack of blocks, taps and knock-ons that teams like Richmond (and Hawthorn in their prime) mastered; and a lack of ‘getting around the guys’ - how often do we see players run to a teammate to congratulate them on a gutsy spoil?

Look at the enthusiasm and hunger Melbourne played with last night. And Collingwood for most of the year. And Richmond and the Bulldogs over the last two finals series. When is the last time we played with such four quarter intent? Perhaps the Bulldogs game at KP last year.

One thing all those teams have in common is a lack of recent success and a hunger throughout the entire club - fans, players, coaches. The fact we are perennial finalists seems to mean that we don’t have the same desire as those others, and it’s a slap in the face.

It might be minor, but I ABSOLUTEY HATE the way we stand individually during the national anthem while our opponents (Melb last night, Richmond last year) stand with arms linked. Surprise surprise, they play like they are united and we play like a bunch of individuals.

Anyone who’s read anything about Richmond’s flag year would know the club introduced a pre-season bonding activity where every player got up in front of the entire group and spoke about hardships they’d faced. This was directly attributed to the way they played as a galvanised unit during the year - I think I read a quote along the lines of “how can you let these guys down on the field when you know about how they got here and what it means to them?”

We saw the benefit of Leading Teams in 2007 and we have to find a similar way to create cohesion.

This. It has zero effect on the outcome of the game - however - it can at least create the "we are a team" look rather than "we are 22 individuals in a team".
IT changes nothing so im not saying its the reason we lost - but as 1%ers go representing a team..... it can help create a look.

And to tis point, I tweeted KROCK about this exact thing. They are all individuals out there and they play like it.
And you can script how it goes.

PREGAME:
They back themselves to win each contest before the game.

SCENE 1:
GFC get going but the individuals try hard but it does not work.
It doesnt happen
The oppo gets going and playing as a team beat the individuals.

SCENE 2:
This then fires the competitive beast spirit in the Hoops players. They dig in for more individual effort. And you can see it. Sel goes harder still, PFD the same. Menz goes for hangers. Menegola to kick the goal of the year. Murda to break the lines.

SCENE 3:

Problem is a team beats an individual every time. The team can have individuals that start but the team ethos must be delivered first not the other way round.

So the individuals in the Hoops ramp it up some more. And it doesnt work. The hardness gets met, the burst gets caught, the goal gets missesd, the mark gets drop and the free against gets paid.
And further behind we go.

SCENE 4:
The individualism goes into overdrive and the structures fall apart.
We flail around, the impossible is attempted and fails.

SCENE 5:
see Elim final loss 2018


Caveat - there are occassions where it works - generally against lower pressure sides

But it needs to change

GO Catters

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Spot on dazbroncos , right now we play as 22 individual players vs a team every week, luckily some of those individual players are absolute guns which allows us to win more than we lose but it will NEVER amount to finals success.
That’s why you’ll never see shepherds or blocks or even defensive running, being individuals means they are selfish and I dare say are solely about numbers.
30 disposals.
3 goals.
15 contested possessions.
Etc.
So if a team mate stands between them and a selfish KPI then too bad, they get burned. Look at how often Friday night cats players sat back and waited for an easy handball while their team mate got swamped and tackled.
Or shot for goal when team mates were in better possessions.
Or fought over the same ground ball.
Or spoiled each other in the air.
How often do players get sucked into a contest to win a possession and allow numbers out the back, usually goal side, so leak out and provide uncontested drive.
Richmond play ultimate team football, Geelong plays ultimate me football.

 

[Mahlepi]

Spot on dazbroncos , right now we play as 22 individual players vs a team every week, luckily some of those individual players are absolute guns which allows us to win more than we lose but it will NEVER amount to finals success.
That’s why you’ll never see shepherds or blocks or even defensive running, being individuals means they are selfish and I dare say are solely about numbers.
30 disposals.
3 goals.
15 contested possessions.
Etc.
So if a team mate stands between them and a selfish KPI then too bad, they get burned. Look at how often Friday night cats players sat back and waited for an easy handball while their team mate got swamped and tackled.
Or shot for goal when team mates were in better possessions.
Or fought over the same ground ball.
Or spoiled each other in the air.
How often do players get sucked into a contest to win a possession and allow numbers out the back, usually goal side, so leak out and provide uncontested drive.
Richmond play ultimate team football, Geelong plays ultimate me football.

Systematic of recruiting 2 selfish players in the midfield

 

[Mr Blicavs]

We were building a great sense of cohension with the backline standing up for the team and each other at the start of the year with all the injuries.

And what happened? Taylor and Hendo were sent straight in to muck it up and it fell apart.

I would be tapping a few of the senior players and telling them they will be having either new roles or should be retiring and let the kids lead the team and build a real sense of team.

Too many individuals players like Ablett and Danger who chokes the life out of any sense of responsibility to the kids by demanding all the attention and action all the time.

Send Danger and Ablett forward and Joel down the back to replace Duncan.

spend the year developing a new midfield and new system, the “leadership” and senior players have had their turn and failed misseribly...enough is enough

Astute post

 

[Nickoo]

Can we build team cohesion under scott and co? That may be the more relevant question.

Do we need an 06’ type review?

Is it just more games together?

Or is the only solution to draft in batches, build from the bottom?

Yep I reckon we do. Will we. Doubt it. They have decided that this is acceptable.

We have apparently talent but no team. Everyone is talking about it in the footy industry at present. Its the 90's under Ayres all over again. Joel is the modern day Buddha. Paddy is Gas. We all know what happened during that period. We wont be winning anything with the current set up.

 

[Nickoo]

So you're saying Jack Lukosius is salivating at the prospect of spending 3 or 4 years getting atrocious delivery in the Carlton fwd line?

Carlton will be on the way back next year. They've had heaps of rising star noms.

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Carlton will be on the way back next year. They've had heaps of rising star noms.

They did 7/8 years ago too...

 

[Claude Balls]

I notice a lot of criticism of the topping up philosophy, but it doesn’t seem at all clear to me that topping up automatically detracts from cohesion. For starters, Hawthorn did it and won 3 flags.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

I notice a lot of criticism of the topping up philosophy, but it doesn’t seem at all clear to me that topping up automatically detracts from cohesion. For starters, Hawthorn did it and won 3 flags.

Dangerfield trade immediately transformed our side. People use it like a dirty word to slander us trading out a few picks in the late teens but would Will Powell and Wayne Milera be transforming our side for years to come? I think not.

 

[Max Milburn]

Astute post

It is. And I see this issue as our biggest hurdle. It's no coincidence that the team that works hardest for each other is the premiership favourite.
It's also how we won 2007, 2009, 2011. Yes, we had talent to burn, but even the most talented would put the team first.
Hopefully Carter, Cook, Scott and co realise this. If they don't, we won't get much further next year.

 

[00VicWard001]

This. It has zero effect on the outcome of the game - however - it can at least create the "we are a team" look rather than "we are 22 individuals in a team".
IT changes nothing so im not saying its the reason we lost - but as 1%ers go representing a team..... it can help create a look.

And to tis point, I tweeted KROCK about this exact thing. They are all individuals out there and they play like it.
And you can script how it goes.

PREGAME:
They back themselves to win each contest before the game.

SCENE 1:
GFC get going but the individuals try hard but it does not work.
It doesnt happen
The oppo gets going and playing as a team beat the individuals.

SCENE 2:
This then fires the competitive beast spirit in the Hoops players. They dig in for more individual effort. And you can see it. Sel goes harder still, PFD the same. Menz goes for hangers. Menegola to kick the goal of the year. Murda to break the lines.

SCENE 3:

Problem is a team beats an individual every time. The team can have individuals that start but the team ethos must be delivered first not the other way round.

So the individuals in the Hoops ramp it up some more. And it doesnt work. The hardness gets met, the burst gets caught, the goal gets missesd, the mark gets drop and the free against gets paid.
And further behind we go.

SCENE 4:
The individualism goes into overdrive and the structures fall apart.
We flail around, the impossible is attempted and fails.

SCENE 5:
see Elim final loss 2018


Caveat - there are occassions where it works - generally against lower pressure sides

But it needs to change

GO Catters

You know every team plays like this right? When you win it’s teamwork and system, when you lose it’s selfishness and lack of cohesion.

When you’re off, you’re the worst team in the league and can be beaten by Carlton or GC. When you’re on, you can make the Tigers look look a normal team.

The intangible is clearly the key. Sometimes it isn’t the players fault, the coach’s fault or the systems fault. Sometimes you’re off and they’re on.