Geelong 2007 vs Hawthorn 2014 - who would win?

[Jhye Clark 13]

Bollox spent his boxing day picking mushrooms from a field.

 

[TimmeT]

Dont agree with that either. A PROVEN bloody good team that could challenge any of the others on its day.
There have also been some awesome teams that didnt win a flag in recent times like Saints 09. A monty to be a flag winner in many other seasons, which shows just how good that Geelong 09 team was. It was a juggernaut season. You needed to be bloody awesome to win that flag, and they were. Even to this day Pies and Dogs fans are proud of at least putting up a fight in 09. They lifted also coz they needed to. A truly great season as a neutral that year.

Weaker seasons can produce results that look good on paper.

In terms of this thread comparison. Sydney were no mugs in 2014. It was the pinnacle of that Hawthorn team we ran into on that day. Was it our worst game of the season coming out of the blue ?...or were they so good it made us look bad ? I think it was the latter.

Hawthorn 2014 easily beats Geelong 07. Geelong 09 beats anyone this century IMO, with only Hawthorn 2014 the possible exception.

Cannot debate about 09.

However regarding Essendon 2000 vs Geelong 2007 and Hawthorn 2014 vs Geelong 2007 you seem to be having a nice little punt each way and continuously contradicting yourself.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

I'll have a lash, I'll swap a couple around for match ups.
Enright back to halfback for Hodge and Wojcinski to the wing.
Ling to HF tagging Mitchell, Selwood to on ball.



Geelong 2007:
B: Tom Harley (c), Matthew Scarlett, Josh Hunt
F: Ben McEvoy, Jack Gunston, Luke Breust

McEvoy with the height Harley with the smarts and intercept marking power, very good reader of the play. Harley very good player, McEvoy plays well against Geelong. Harley, just.
Scarlett and Gunston both very intelligent and skilled players. Scarlett in the discussion for best ever at FB so have to give it to him.
Hunt in for his kicking out, Bruest too good.

HB: Corey Enright Darren Milburn, Andrew Mackie,
HF: Luke Hodge (c), Jarryd Roughead, Isaac Smith

Hodge has 2 NSM, but not playing HF. Enright in discussions as one of the best ever in his position. Enright, just.
Roughy too big for Dasher. Maybe swap Milburn and Harley if things look bad.
Smith and Mackie, two of the more physical players in the competition over the journey. Smith too much running power. I never rated Mackie until 2011 onwards.


C: Joel Corey, Jimmy Bartel, David Wojcinski
C: Jordan Lewis, Will Langford, Bradley Hill

Corey and Lewis a nil all draw. Similar players, Lewis cleaner by foot, Corey a much bigger bull.
Bartel.
Wojcinski when flying was a massive boost for the Cats. If he wasn't getting any of it, he could do stupid things trying to inject himself and give away multiple free kicks in a hurry. Much bigger than Hill, pacy and a thumping kick. I think Wojcinski for this one, only on the basis of the big physical impact he could have.


HF: Steve Johnson, Cameron Mooney, Cameron Ling
HB: Matt Suckling, Ben Stratton, Sam Mitchell

Johnson. Too smart.
Mooney, underrated on these boards. Very good footballer, along with Nathan Ablett probably Geelong's best player off the opposite foot. (just not from 20m in front )
Geelong always needed two Lings. One for Mitchell and one for Hodge. I'm not sure if I ever saw Mitchell get the best of Ling when Ling was his direct opponent. I think when Ling retired Mitchell voiced his relief in an interview.

F: Paul Chapman, Nathan Ablett, Mathew Stokes
B: Grant Birchall, Brian Lake, Josh Gibson

Chapman
Lake
Gibson
Maybe swap Gibson with Birchall since Chappy was strong overhead, do that and I'd probably give all 3 to Hawthorn. Chappy exceptionally high quality but Gibson was too and was twice b&f in premiership years

FOLL: Brad Ottens, Joel Selwood, Gary Ablett Jr
FOLL: David Hale, Liam Shiels, Shaun Burgoyne

Ottens
Selwood
Ablett Jr for his ability to run harder for longer compared to Burgoyne. Maybe a case of quantity over quality, not that there's anything wrong with Ablett's quality.

INT: Steven King, Shannon Byrnes, James Kelly, Max Rooke
INT: Matthew Spangher, Cyril Rioli, Paul Puopolo
SUB: Taylor Duryea

COACH: Mark Thompson
COACH: Alastair Clarkson

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Both almost choked in the prelims. The cats in 2007 were IMO one of the best ever teams. On the other hand, the hawks have a knack for beating the cats when it TRULY mattered. Geelongs season was better but I would have to agree with one of the posters in here. The way the hawks played against Sydney, who were supremely fantastic as well, they would have rolled Geelong. Geelong beat a s**t port team. Mental edge hawthorn goes with the hawks as well.

Why I think '14 was the best of the 3peat was Hawthorn's ability to get themselves into a position at the end of the h&a to seriously challenge. They had lost key players for multiple weeks throughout the season. Having said that, those same players with the exception of Cyril, all got back in time to get a few games under their belts so would have hit September a lot fresher.

Once they hit September in that shape, they were going to be very hard to stop and they were.

 

[cryptor]

I'll have a lash, I'll swap a couple around for match ups.
Enright back to halfback for Hodge and Wojcinski to the wing.
Ling to HF tagging Mitchell, Selwood to on ball.



Geelong 2007:
B: Tom Harley (c), Matthew Scarlett, Josh Hunt
F: Ben McEvoy, Jack Gunston, Luke Breust

McEvoy with the height Harley with the smarts and intercept marking power, very good reader of the play. Harley very good player, McEvoy plays well against Geelong. Harley, just.
Scarlett and Gunston both very intelligent and skilled players. Scarlett in the discussion for best ever at FB so have to give it to him.
Hunt in for his kicking out, Bruest too good.

HB: Corey Enright Darren Milburn, Andrew Mackie,
HF: Luke Hodge (c), Jarryd Roughead, Isaac Smith

Hodge has 2 NSM, but not playing HF. Enright in discussions as one of the best ever in his position. Enright, just.
Roughy too big for Dasher. Maybe swap Milburn and Harley if things look bad.
Smith and Mackie, two of the more physical players in the competition over the journey. Smith too much running power. I never rated Mackie until 2011 onwards.


C: Joel Corey, Jimmy Bartel, David Wojcinski
C: Jordan Lewis, Will Langford, Bradley Hill

Corey and Lewis a nil all draw. Similar players, Lewis cleaner by foot, Corey a much bigger bull.
Bartel.
Wojcinski when flying was a massive boost for the Cats. If he wasn't getting any of it, he could do stupid things trying to inject himself and give away multiple free kicks in a hurry. Much bigger than Hill, pacy and a thumping kick. I think Wojcinski for this one, only on the basis of the big physical impact he could have.


HF: Steve Johnson, Cameron Mooney, Cameron Ling
HB: Matt Suckling, Ben Stratton, Sam Mitchell

Johnson. Too smart.
Mooney, underrated on these boards. Very good footballer, along with Nathan Ablett probably Geelong's best player off the opposite foot. (just not from 20m in front )
Geelong always needed two Lings. One for Mitchell and one for Hodge. I'm not sure if I ever saw Mitchell get the best of Ling when Ling was his direct opponent. I think when Ling retired Mitchell voiced his relief in an interview.

F: Paul Chapman, Nathan Ablett, Mathew Stokes
B: Grant Birchall, Brian Lake, Josh Gibson

Chapman
Lake
Gibson
Maybe swap Gibson with Birchall since Chappy was strong overhead, do that and I'd probably give all 3 to Hawthorn. Chappy exceptionally high quality but Gibson was too and was twice b&f in premiership years

FOLL: Brad Ottens, Joel Selwood, Gary Ablett Jr
FOLL: David Hale, Liam Shiels, Shaun Burgoyne

Ottens
Selwood
Ablett Jr for his ability to run harder for longer compared to Burgoyne. Maybe a case of quantity over quality, not that there's anything wrong with Ablett's quality.

INT: Steven King, Shannon Byrnes, James Kelly, Max Rooke
INT: Matthew Spangher, Cyril Rioli, Paul Puopolo
SUB: Taylor Duryea

COACH: Mark Thompson
COACH: Alastair Clarkson

Pathetically disingenuous "analysis" here. That fact no more clearly illustrated than where you've moved Enright to half back (from on the wing the '07 teamsheet had him named) to take Luke Hodge on the HF line. Who according to you never won one of his two Norm Smith medals playing there despite him being named there (and you leaving him named there) and kicking 3 goals in the '14 GF that saw him get the Norm Smith medal.

You've done the same sort of thing with your other position switches. Switch Ling and Selwood back around and 2014 Sam Mitchell easily beats the 2007 Selwood at HF. 2007 GF Ling vs 2014 GF Shiels could be argued either way I'm sure, but for the sake of argument I'll just give you Ling. So there's a 2-0 going to 1-1.

Begs the question, if you're willing to make those kind of changes, then why didn't you make even more logical changes like: Lake to play on (and best) Mooney? Why leave Stratton playing on a tall while Gibson plays on a small? Leaving our two rebounding HBFs in Birchall and Suckling playing on your two most dangerous HFs in Chapman and Johnson? Come on, those things would never be left to happen in a game.

And for the record,
2014 Brad Hill >>>> 2007 David Wojcinski
2014 Liam Shiels >> 2007 Joel Selwood
2014 Taylor Duryea >> 2007 Max Rooke
Don't let their deeds in other seasons both before and after let you think they're better than they really were in those respective years.

 

[Luv_our_club]

The Geelong team lacked X factor and genuine forwards. They had Steve Johnson, but he was a flawed genius.

Ling, Bartell, Ablett, and co made for a strong midfield, and Enright and Scarlett were greats.

But Hawthorn imo had far more brilliance, in Rioli, Bruest, Gunston, Smith, Hill, Burgoyne, Mitchell, Hodge, Lake, Gibson, Roughy. Elite foot skills, and goal sense, and X factor.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Pathetically disingenuous "analysis" here. That fact no more clearly illustrated than where you've moved Enright to half back (from on the wing the '07 teamsheet had him named) to take Luke Hodge on the HF line. Who according to you never won one of his two Norm Smith medals playing there despite him being named there (and you leaving him named there) and kicking 3 goals in the '14 GF that saw him get the Norm Smith medal.

You've done the same sort of thing with your other position switches. Switch Ling and Selwood back around and 2014 Sam Mitchell easily beats the 2007 Selwood at HF. 2007 GF Ling vs 2014 GF Shiels could be argued either way I'm sure, but for the sake of argument I'll just give you Ling. So there's a 2-0 going to 1-1.

Begs the question, if you're willing to make those kind of changes, then why didn't you make even more logical changes like: Lake to play on (and best) Mooney? Why leave Stratton playing on a tall while Gibson plays on a small? Leaving our two rebounding HBFs in Birchall and Suckling playing on your two most dangerous HFs in Chapman and Johnson? Come on, those things would never be left to happen in a game.

And for the record,
2014 Brad Hill >>>> 2007 David Wojcinski
2014 Liam Shiels >> 2007 Joel Selwood
2014 Taylor Duryea >> 2007 Max Rooke
Don't let their deeds in other seasons both before and after let you think they're better than they really were in those respective years.

Just because you're named on a team sheet in a position it doesn't mean you have to start there.

Do you're own from a Hawthorn perspective instead of having a melt.

Chapman more of a threat than Mooney, Gibson a better footballer than Stratton. Gibson and Stratton same height. Lake much better on the last line than up the ground.

I think I may have mentioned swapping Birchall for Gibson and said I'd give 3 of all those spots to Hawks if that happened. You must have missed that bit in your rage.

 

[MightyHawks]

Just because you're named on a team sheet in a position it doesn't mean you have to start there.

Do you're own from a Hawthorn perspective instead of having a melt.

Chapman more of a threat than Mooney, Gibson a better footballer than Stratton. Gibson and Stratton same height. Lake much better on the last line than up the ground.

I think I may have mentioned swapping Birchall for Gibson and said I'd give 3 of all those spots to Hawks if that happened. You must have missed that bit in your rage.

Your join date is impressive

Why are you comparing Geelong 2007 anyway, wasn't the 2008 model a better side?

 

[My Tilly]

The Geelong team lacked X factor and genuine forwards.

haha yeh right, that's why we went into virtually every single game as 40-50 point favorites

 

[Luv_our_club]

haha yeh right, that's why we went into virtually every single game as 40-50 point favorites

Honestly, your forward 50 was probably in the bottom 2 of all flag winners since 2000. Stokes? Nathan Ablett? Mooney?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Hawthorn by 4 goals.

Superior mentality and work rate within the Hawthorn 2014 group, as proven by the fact that they pushed themselves towards the pinnacle for 4 straight years.

 

[Leeda]

short versus I dunno.. your version of success is different to mine..

 

[TEDDY24INC]

Geelong 2007 in a canter

 

[King Cold]

These bolded ones don't seem to be records do they?

A couple you need to add to your list as well:

Most All Australians in a team that didn't win the premiership?

Is there a record for greatest turnaround in consecutive grand finals? (145 points from 2007 to 2008 definitely eclipses our 90 point effort from 1988 to 1989!)

I forgot to mention that we finished top 2 every year during our 2007-2011 period of domination.

Has any other club managed five consecutive years of finishing top 2?

Even if you look at the last 12 years of 2007-2018 we're still the clear standout.

List of top 2 finishes 2007-2018:

Geelong - 8
Hawthorn - 4
Adelaide - 2
Collingwood - 2
Sydney - 2
West Coast - 2
Fremantle - 1
Port Adelaide - 1
Richmond - 1
St Kilda - 1

 

[Roddy]

Cat fans clinging desperately to marginal statistics like 'winning percentage', 'years without a spoon' and 'number of top two finishes'. It's really quite hilarious.

 

[hawkman]

I forgot to mention that we finished top 2 every year during our 2007-2011 period of domination.

Has any other club managed five consecutive years of finishing top 2?

Even if you look at the last 12 years of 2007-2018 we're still the clear standout.

List of top 2 finishes 2007-2018:

Geelong - 8
Hawthorn - 4
Adelaide - 2
Collingwood - 2
Sydney - 2
West Coast - 2
Fremantle - 1
Port Adelaide - 1
Richmond - 1
St Kilda - 1

Geelong finished 3rd in 2010, 2013, 2016 and 2017

Hawthorn have 5 top 2 finishes in that time

 

[Leeda]

players versus layers... I dunno.. seems silly.. going to research... this is a monumental task.

 

[eldorado]

These "who would win" threads are the greatest waste of oxygen I can contemplate.

May as well be in primary school having a knock-down blue about whether Spiderman could beat a croco-leopard.

Shame on you all.

 

[Leeda]

These "who would win" threads are the greatest waste of oxygen I can contemplate.

May as well be in primary school having a knock-down blue about whether Spiderman could beat a croco-leopard.

Shame on you all.

just don't call me before 8:30 in the morning... just aren't my best...

 

[Jhye Clark 13]

Cat fans clinging desperately to marginal statistics like 'winning percentage', 'years without a spoon' and 'number of top two finishes'. It's really quite hilarious.

What's even more hilarious is that there's Hawthorn supporters who actually think their 2014 would beat Geelong's 2007 side.

 

[King Cold]

Geelong finished 3rd in 2010, 2013, 2016 and 2017

Hawthorn have 5 top 2 finishes in that time

Sorry but the AFL ladder from those years says that I'm right and you're wrong.

 

[Snooza 100]

I think the Hawks, their outside run was awesome..

On [device_name] using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[MightyHawks]

I forgot to mention that we finished top 2 every year during our 2007-2011 period of domination.

Has any other club managed five consecutive years of finishing top 2?

Even if you look at the last 12 years of 2007-2018 we're still the clear standout.

List of top 2 finishes 2007-2018:

Geelong - 8
Hawthorn - 4
Adelaide - 2
Collingwood - 2
Sydney - 2
West Coast - 2
Fremantle - 1
Port Adelaide - 1
Richmond - 1
St Kilda - 1

I'm totally blown away by this stat

We've just had only the 4 top 2 finishes and turned that into 5 Grand Finals and 4 premierships

Am I right that of the 10 teams on your list that only Geelong and Adelaide have a less than 100% conversion rate for turning top 2 finishes into Grand Final appearances?

Going back to 1897 has any team over a 12 year period finished in the top 2 eight or more times yet only made 4 or less Grand Finals? Make sure you add it to your list

 

[derp de derp]

Geelong 2007 couldn’t beat Hawthorn 2008, they are no chance against the threepeat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Benny78]

The Geelong team lacked X factor and genuine forwards. They had Steve Johnson, but he was a flawed genius.

Ling, Bartell, Ablett, and co made for a strong midfield, and Enright and Scarlett were greats.

But Hawthorn imo had far more brilliance, in Rioli, Bruest, Gunston, Smith, Hill, Burgoyne, Mitchell, Hodge, Lake, Gibson, Roughy. Elite foot skills, and goal sense, and X factor.

Lol that whole Geelong side were X factor. Same with Brisbane and St Kilda. Hawthorn honestly had no X factor imo during their premiership years. However they were solid, well drilled and incredibly reliable under pressure.