Geelong 2007 vs Hawthorn 2014 - who would win?

Who would win?


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Whiskers

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I think everyone knows Geelong were a better side but what clouds judgement is we were beaten in the 2008 GF and the hawks won a 3peat.
Our 13 victories in a row was no fluke.
Unfortunately for us we got ahead of ourselves in 08 and missed Chapman and Enright for the 2013 prelim.
 

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Holy Rioli

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I think everyone knows Geelong were a better side but what clouds judgement is we were beaten in the 2008 GF and the hawks won a 3peat.
Our 13 victories in a row was no fluke.
Unfortunately for us we got ahead of ourselves in 08 and missed Chapman and Enright for the 2013 prelim.
You are seriously going to blame the game on those two missing? Pretty sure the massive umpiring advantage you received that night made up for it.
 

TimmeT

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You are seriously going to blame the game on those two missing? Pretty sure the massive umpiring advantage you received that night made up for it.
You are seriously going to blame the game on those two missing? Pretty sure the massive umpiring advantage you received that night made up for it.
Both of them were significant outs for them. Also are you saying that an even free kick count was an umpiring advantage for Geelong?
 

Holy Rioli

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Both of them were significant outs for them. Also are you saying that an even free kick count was an umpiring advantage for Geelong?
I'm saying ridiculous calls like the out on the full that wasn't a call that led to a goal, or the non Rioli mark 10m out from goal not paid that went up the other end as well played a huge role in keeping Geelong in the game.
 
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2007, let's remember Cameron Mooney got AA over Franklin.

Do yourselves a favour and go see who actually deserved it.

Franklin
3.3 goals per game
5.6 marks per game
1.2 contested marks per game
0.5 goal assists per game
32 of 73 goals kicked against top eight teams

Mooney
2.7 goals per game
7.6 marks per game
1.9 contested marks per game
1 goal assist per game
33 of 67 goals kicked against top eight teams



Do yourself a favor and stop rewriting history.
 

DannyJ

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Thanks for proving my point. Your still whinging about subjective awards for players who have been moved on from your club.
I dont know what 'moved on from your club' has to do with anything.

Happy to prove your point, shafted in a few awards.

But not shafted in premierships.

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DannyJ

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Franklin
3.3 goals per game
5.6 marks per game
1.2 contested marks per game
0.5 goal assists per game
32 of 73 goals kicked against top eight teams

Mooney
2.7 goals per game
7.6 marks per game
1.9 contested marks per game
1 goal assist per game
33 of 67 goals kicked against top eight teams



Do yourself a favor and stop rewriting history.
You're including finals which arent applicable to AA selections.
Not that it affects the numbers greatly.

How Franklin kicked more goals and lead his young team to finals as Moon feasted off the good work of all those 8 AAs up the field.





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You're including finals which arent applicable to AA selections.
Not that it affects the numbers greatly.
In the finals-

Franklin
12 disposals, 7 marks, 0 contested marks, 7 goals, 0 goal assists
12 disposals, 4 marks, 2 contested marks, 3 goals, 1 goal assist

Mooney
10 disposals, 6 marks, 1 contested mark, 5 goals, 2 goal assist
10 disposals, 6 marks, 1 contested mark, 2 goals, 0 goal assists
17 disposals, 12 marks, 4 contested marks, 5 goals, 1 goal assist


Not only did Mooney play well during the H&A, he was pretty solid in the finals. Certainly had a better overall season than Franklin but let's continue to hype up Franklin's past seasons with every year that passes by shall we.
 

DannyJ

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In the finals-

Franklin
12 disposals, 7 marks, 0 contested marks, 7 goals, 0 goal assists
12 disposals, 4 marks, 2 contested marks, 3 goals, 1 goal assist

Mooney
10 disposals, 6 marks, 1 contested mark, 5 goals, 2 goal assist
10 disposals, 6 marks, 1 contested mark, 2 goals, 0 goal assists
17 disposals, 12 marks, 4 contested marks, 5 goals, 1 goal assist


Not only did Mooney play well during the H&A, he was pretty solid in the finals. Certainly had a better overall season than Franklin but let's continue to hype up Franklin's past seasons with every year that passes by shall we.
Well yeah, Franklin is the greatest forward in the modern era so I think he should be well hyped.

Mooney had a good year. Just a by product of being an average forward in a great team.

2007 was a very weak year aside from the Geelong side. We saw the mental drive of the team at its first chance of a real test late in 2008.

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Well yeah, Franklin is the greatest forward in the modern era so I think he should be well hyped.

Mooney had a good year. Just a by product of being an average forward in a great team.

2007 was a very weak year aside from the Geelong side. We saw the mental drive of the team at its first chance of a real test late in 2008.

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You can downplay the competition of 2007 as much as you wish, the fact Geelong made it to 4 grand finals within a 5 year period says it all.

I could flip it on you and imply Hawthorn didn't have to compete against much quality either (2013-2016).
Geelong had to deal with St Kilda and Collingwood who probably assembled their best ever sides during that particular campaign. The Western Bulldogs were another team who finished top four 3 years running.
 
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I guess the hope would be the AA panel had a bit more credibility about them. e.g Not overlook a player like Burgoyne because he plays multiple roles according to what the team needs on the day. If he played back pocket as much as Enright the man would be a multiple AA player to for example.
Not really, because Enright would still be there.
 
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Well yeah, Franklin is the greatest forward in the modern era so I think he should be well hyped.
Doesn't mean he should be gifted AAs when players have better years.

Mooney had a good year.
Yes, he did.

2007 was a very weak year aside from the Geelong side. We saw the mental drive of the team at its first chance of a real test late in 2008.

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First 'real test' huh? They had a bad day, that's for sure. We saw how that Hawthorn side dealt with it's first real test post-2008. Couldn't make the finals.
 

Holy Rioli

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Not really, because Enright would still be there.
This is true. Champion data a few years ago when Burgoyne played as a back pocket/ half back flanker was rated the #1 small/medium defender in the game by a long way, his numbers dwarfed Enright in every major statistical category, and Enright still made the team and Burgyone didn't.
 
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This is true. Champion data a few years ago when Burgoyne played as a back pocket/ half back flanker was rated the #1 small/medium defender in the game by a long way, his numbers dwarfed Enright in every major statistical category, and Enright still made the team and Burgyone didn't.
Sure they did.
 

Whiskers

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You are seriously going to blame the game on those two missing? Pretty sure the massive umpiring advantage you received that night made up for it.
Oh umpiring now? Let’s talk about that.
2013 we got a nice lead due to some umpiring errors. I’m honest though, I doubt you are with yourself.
You might want to hand back those victories in the prelim finals of 2012,14 and 15. Those umps halted all freo’s momentum early and Fyfe was injured.
Umpiring ultimately landed you flags in 14 and 15 with 2012 GF berth completely undeserved and the worst of the lot but added GF experience.

This is why I think those achievements of Hawthorns are massively overblown. Lucky to make any of those GFs.
 

DannyJ

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You can downplay the competition of 2007 as much as you wish, the fact Geelong made it to 4 grand finals within a 5 year period says it all.

I could flip it on you and imply Hawthorn didn't have to compete against much quality either (2013-2016).
Geelong had to deal with St Kilda and Collingwood who probably assembled their best ever sides during that particular campaign. The Western Bulldogs were another team who finished top four 3 years running.
You were a great side in 2007. Dont get me wrong. But your first real test came 2008 GF and you failed.

That did steel you guys in 2009 which beat a great St. Kilda team. Was a great GF and and that was the game that made you go down in the history books for me. Not the Port massacre.

We came up against a great Sydney team in 2014 and dismantled them. I've followed alot of football since 1996 and that was the greatest performance I've seen from a team.



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DannyJ

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Doesn't mean he should be gifted AAs when players have better years.



Yes, he did.



First 'real test' huh? They had a bad day, that's for sure. We saw how that Hawthorn side dealt with it's first real test post-2008. Couldn't make the finals.
Franklin has never been gifted AA. Just ripped off in 2007. That's all.

Yeah our 2008 team wasnt as good as your 2007-2011 one. Only had a good core which was before its prime and didnt have alot of depth. That's what makes out flag in 2008 hilarious.

We saw our mature team. 3 flags on the trot.

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DannyJ

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Oh umpiring now? Let’s talk about that.
2013 we got a nice lead due to some umpiring errors. I’m honest though, I doubt you are with yourself.
You might want to hand back those victories in the prelim finals of 2012,14 and 15. Those umps halted all freo’s momentum early and Fyfe was injured.
Umpiring ultimately landed you flags in 14 and 15 with 2012 GF berth completely undeserved and the worst of the lot but added GF experience.

This is why I think those achievements of Hawthorns are massively overblown. Lucky to make any of those GFs.
I wouldnt say overblown.

Accident of history.

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We came up against a great Sydney team in 2014 and dismantled them. I've followed alot of football since 1996 and that was the greatest performance I've seen from a team.
Sydney weren't a great team in 2014 at all.
They had a make-shift ruckman and apart from Tippett (hardly a star in his own right), only had Franklin to rely on to kick the bulk of their kick goals.
Sydney is very similar to Geelong in important games, you get them early and they crumble under pressure for the rest of the day. Not much resolve at all.

I still think Hawthorn was a great side but the competition they were up against is not too dissimilar to what Richmond is currently going through. It kind of feels like Hawthorn 2012 for them last year and they should have no problems making it through to the grand final again this time around. The competition is simply that weak.
 

Holy Rioli

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Oh umpiring now? Let’s talk about that.
2013 we got a nice lead due to some umpiring errors. I’m honest though, I doubt you are with yourself.
You might want to hand back those victories in the prelim finals of 2012,14 and 15. Those umps halted all freo’s momentum early and Fyfe was injured.
Umpiring ultimately landed you flags in 14 and 15 with 2012 GF berth completely undeserved and the worst of the lot but added GF experience.

This is why I think those achievements of Hawthorns are massively overblown. Lucky to make any of those GFs.
Haha you are up there with the Port nufties if you think the umpires hurt them in 2014. Watch that last quarter again and the goal that Monfries got that started the rot. Gibson didn't even make contact with him but Monfries gets a soda from 15m out dead in front.

BTW the free kick count in the last quarter was 10-2 in Ports favour. One could make an argument just about every free kick call in that quarter was wrong.

With 2012, there is a youtube video out there that shows every contensious call from that game, and all the gripes that Adelaide fans had were unfounded when you watch it. They were just unlucky so many 50/50 moments went our way. We were the better team on the day so I'm more than comfortable with that one.

And as for 2015, 2 poor calls doesn't change anything, we went to Perth, beat Freo on their home deck by 4 goals. Sheridan dropping a sitter hurt more than anything. We were clearly the better team on the night as well. Unless you are in the blame Sam Mitchell camp for why Fyfe was injured that game.
 

DannyJ

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Sydney weren't a great team in 2014 at all.
They had a make-shift ruckman and apart from Tippett (hardly a star in his own right), only had Franklin to rely on to kick the bulk of their kick goals.
Sydney is very similar to Geelong in important games, you get them early and they crumble under pressure for the rest of the day. Not much resolve at all.

I still think Hawthorn was a great side but the competition they were up against is not too dissimilar to what Richmond is currently going through. It kind of feels like Hawthorn 2012 for them last year and they should have no problems making it through to the grand final again this time around. The competition is simply that weak.
Sydney 2014 would have won the last three premierships barring an upset. They were pretty good. There's a reason David King picked them to win it by 10 goals.
 

Goggin Our Best

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Haha you are up there with the Port nufties if you think the umpires hurt them in 2014. Watch that last quarter again and the goal that Monfries got that started the rot. Gibson didn't even make contact with him but Monfries gets a soda from 15m out dead in front.

BTW the free kick count in the last quarter was 10-2 in Ports favour. One could make an argument just about every free kick call in that quarter was wrong.

With 2012, there is a youtube video out there that shows every contensious call from that game, and all the gripes that Adelaide fans had were unfounded when you watch it. They were just unlucky so many 50/50 moments went our way. We were the better team on the day so I'm more than comfortable with that one.

And as for 2015, 2 poor calls doesn't change anything, we went to Perth, beat Freo on their home deck by 4 goals. Sheridan dropping a sitter hurt more than anything. We were clearly the better team on the night as well. Unless you are in the blame Sam Mitchell camp for why Fyfe was injured that game.
Thats a huge contradiction - Geel did get lucky with the 2 calls that led to the 2 goals - which you correctly pointed out

However Freo were right on top - on their home deck - and those 2 calls helped Haw massively - when they were looking in all sorts of trouble

However the unbelivably quick holding the ball decision paid to Hodge in the final seconds against Port in the PF - that takes the cake

I think in both 07 and 14 both Coll and Port would have both easily won the GF - if they hade made it - just fell short
 
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