Geelong 2007 vs Hawthorn 2014 - who would win?

[Whiskers]

Haha you are up there with the Port nufties if you think the umpires hurt them in 2014. Watch that last quarter again and the goal that Monfries got that started the rot. Gibson didn't even make contact with him but Monfries gets a soda from 15m out dead in front.

BTW the free kick count in the last quarter was 10-2 in Ports favour. One could make an argument just about every free kick call in that quarter was wrong.

With 2012, there is a youtube video out there that shows every contensious call from that game, and all the gripes that Adelaide fans had were unfounded when you watch it. They were just unlucky so many 50/50 moments went our way. We were the better team on the day so I'm more than comfortable with that one.

And as for 2015, 2 poor calls doesn't change anything, we went to Perth, beat Freo on their home deck by 4 goals. Sheridan dropping a sitter hurt more than anything. We were clearly the better team on the night as well. Unless you are in the blame Sam Mitchell camp for why Fyfe was injured that game.

Just like I thought. You aren’t honest with yourself.
For such a ‘great’ team I don’t think 4 scraping over the lines in a row in prelims is all that great. Interstate sides with umpires against them, an undermanned cats side who barely beat Port the week before.
Losing to WCE only to get lucky and have an undeserved 4th GF appearance in a row at your home ground against them with no GF experience.
Not all scores tell a true story.

 

[catstorm]

I think it could be argued 2011 was Geelongs best season 19-3 season 3-0 against a 20 win Collingwood 3-0 against an 18 win Hawthorn.
It was a strong season at the top and Geelong was untouchable when it mattered most, a completely dominant finals series no one else even got close.

 

[Aramis]

Geelong 2007 were superior in every area.

Except the part where they had to defend the title....

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Except the part where they had to defend the title....

That wasn't Geelong 2007.

 

[beta_condition]

That wasn't Geelong 2007.

You know it's comparing era's, after all 2013 was Hawthorns bets year. After all it arguably had the best forwardline in the leagues history.

 

[Leeda]

That wasn't Geelong 2007.

Geelong 25.. or even 15 is not a post mark in your travels to the work and the master of scientific diversion...

 

[Slysh]

Just like I thought. You aren’t honest with yourself.
For such a ‘great’ team I don’t think 4 scraping over the lines in a row in prelims is all that great. Interstate sides with umpires against them, an undermanned cats side who barely beat Port the week before.
Losing to WCE only to get lucky and have an undeserved 4th GF appearance in a row at your home ground against them with no GF experience.
Not all scores tell a true story.

Jeez this is one of the best Big Footy posts i have seen in some time.

Clearly the Hawks team was nothing more than an average team that were gifted 3 flags.

 

[Leeda]

Except the part where they had to defend the title....

sparkle dude..

 

[Aramis]

sparkle dude..

What?

 

[Lunchlady Doris]

Geelong 25.. or even 15 is not a post mark in your travels to the work and the master of scientific diversion...

Yes, well, that goes without saying...

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Jeez this is one of the best Big Footy posts i have seen in some time.

Clearly the Hawks team was nothing more than an average team that were gifted 3 flags.

Whiskers is a special poster.

 

[Leeda]

What?

have a blonde moment...

 

[Aramis]

have a blonde moment...

Don't have a clue what you're on about, explain?

 

[Bjchan13]

Two of the greatest sides of all time, and both were absolutely ruthless on Grand Final day in their respective seasons.

Who do you think would win a hypothetical match up between these two sides?

Here are the respective lineups that each side took into the Grand Final.

Geelong 2007:
B: Tom Harley (c), Matthew Scarlett, Josh Hunt
HB: Andrew Mackie, Darren Milburn, David Wojcinski
C: Joel Corey, Jimmy Bartel, Corey Enright
HF: Steve Johnson, Cameron Mooney, Joel Selwood
F: Paul Chapman, Nathan Ablett, Mathew Stokes
FOLL: Brad Ottens, Cameron Ling, Gary Ablett Jr
INT: Steven King, Shannon Byrnes, James Kelly, Max Rooke
COACH: Mark Thompson

Hawthorn 2014:
B: Grant Birchall, Brian Lake, Josh Gibson
HB: Matt Suckling, Ben Stratton, Sam Mitchell
C: Jordan Lewis, Will Langford, Bradley Hill
HF: Luke Hodge (c), Jarryd Roughead, Isaac Smith
F: Ben McEvoy, Jack Gunston, Luke Breust
FOLL: David Hale, Liam Shiels, Shaun Burgoyne
INT: Matthew Spangher, Cyril Rioli, Paul Puopolo
SUB: Taylor Duryea
COACH: Alastair Clarkson

Would come down to which team kicks the highest score on the day

 

[QuietB]

Watching the 2012 game on fox footy. Hawks a goal up with 5 minutes left after being 45 points down at quarter time.

Cannot remember how we lose this one

 

[QuietB]

Ahhh - Hawkins after the siren. * that campaigner

 

[Pessimistic]

Geelong 2008 limped into September, injuries were mounting up and resulted in players that were nowhere near 100% getting picked when they shouldn't have. It was unfortunate timing for Geelong, still I think bad tactical choices in the granny by Bomba didn't help either.

The fact that the hfc did not win another game against Geelong in 12 or so tries clearly indicates that it was an aberration.

In most other years. hawthorns H+A result would have been a creditable premier. You described it better than ‘ kicked badly in the 2nd’ Mooney Lonergan Stokes. history is not kind to that line up.

Btw hawks won 3 quarters and lost one by a point. In reference to the OP, Nat Ablett and wojusnki must be criminally under rated

 

[Pessimistic]

Two of the greatest sides of all time, and both were absolutely ruthless on Grand Final day in their respective seasons.

Who do you think would win a hypothetical match up between these two sides?

Here are the respective lineups that each side took into the Grand Final.

Geelong 2007:
B: Tom Harley (c), Matthew Scarlett, Josh Hunt
HB: Andrew Mackie, Darren Milburn, David Wojcinski
C: Joel Corey, Jimmy Bartel, Corey Enright
HF: Steve Johnson, Cameron Mooney, Joel Selwood
F: Paul Chapman, Nathan Ablett, Mathew Stokes
FOLL: Brad Ottens, Cameron Ling, Gary Ablett Jr
INT: Steven King, Shannon Byrnes, James Kelly, Max Rooke
COACH: Mark Thompson

Hawthorn 2014:
B: Grant Birchall, Brian Lake, Josh Gibson
HB: Matt Suckling, Ben Stratton, Sam Mitchell
C: Jordan Lewis, Will Langford, Bradley Hill
HF: Luke Hodge (c), Jarryd Roughead, Isaac Smith
F: Ben McEvoy, Jack Gunston, Luke Breust
FOLL: David Hale, Liam Shiels, Shaun Burgoyne
INT: Matthew Spangher, Cyril Rioli, Paul Puopolo
SUB: Taylor Duryea
COACH: Alastair Clarkson

As a different tack, rate Geelongs current ‘dreamteam’ Midfield against the 2007 one. Not pretty

 

[Downhill Skier]

Who ******* cares

 

[Sttew]

Who ******* cares

This could be asked of every other discussion topic on BF

 

[Man0gwaR74]

Well, given the Hawthorn beat the same Geelong side in the GF in 2008, and Hawthorn 2014 is better than Hawthorn 2008, it would have to be Hawthorn 2014 over Geelong 2007.

Given the fact that Bomber made 2 MASSIVE mistakes in that 2008 GF, it is wrong to assume that Hawks had the better team. Even when they won that flag in 2008, it was considered an upset victory and these are the key reasons why they lost imo:

It takes time to develop leadership and people learn from mistakes.

2008 Bomber Thompson made some MASSIVE mistakes in that GF!:

Mistake #1: was assuming that Buddy was a significant threat and using Scarlett on him as a lock down defender which took Scarlett's influence out of the game and played into the hand of Clarkson's plan coz Clarkson used Buddy as a decoy for that very purpose! Scarlett's influence on games was too important to waste on a forward who isn't such an accurate kick for goal! Bomber should have placed a small or mid sized defender on Buddy to run with him like what Clarkson did to Mooney coz neither of them use their height to advantage in marking contests and rely on their pace to gain separation on their opponents. Bomber should have ignored Buddy's influence and given him enough rope to hang himself! This isn't really a reflection after the fact coz I was hoping that he would do that in the lead up to the game!

Mistake #2: Putting a rookie(Stokes) on a number1 draft pick(and eventual Norm Smith Medalist: Hodge) and then verbally abusing him and thus undermining his forward's confidence on the field at the qtr time break. Clearly Stokes was out of Hodge's league and Bomber should have used Clinger to contain his influence! I was screaming out for that change from the first bounce and throughout the whole game and the very next time that the Cats played against the Hawks, Clinger was put on him and Hodge was comprehensively beaten!

 

[Pessimistic]

Given the fact that Bomber made 2 MASSIVE mistakes in that 2008 GF, it is wrong to assume that Hawks had the better team. Even when they won that flag in 2008, it was considered an upset victory and these are the key reasons why they lost imo:

While it was a bit of a pinch, your team pretty much got owned that day

Lonergan FF? He wouldn’t even be a player if he got called out on the grappling stuff. Stokes Chapman and Lonergan were below the standard. Several players s**t themselves and Johnson was well I dunno. Ablett decided it was all someone else’s problem which is default Ablett when it gets tough

On that day, Hawthorn was the better team. There was a bit of luck though, players #23 and #24 for the hawks were not great. Lucky with injury

Now shall I start on the cats luck in the 2009 GF? Won just ONE quarter (like 2008)

 

[Ricky Vaughn]

While it was a bit of a pinch, your team pretty much got owned that day

Lonergan FF? He wouldn’t even be a player if he got called out on the grappling stuff. Stokes Chapman and Lonergan were below the standard. Several players s**t themselves and Johnson was well I dunno. Ablett decided it was all someone else’s problem which is default Ablett when it gets tough

On that day, Hawthorn was the better team. There was a bit of luck though, players #23 and #24 for the hawks were not great. Lucky with injury

Now shall I start on the cats luck in the 2009 GF? Won just ONE quarter (like 2008)

Even though that's a shocking take, it doesn't matter. Hawks won, everything else gets lost over time.

 

[Man0gwaR74]

While it was a bit of a pinch, your team pretty much got owned that day
Lonergan FF? He wouldn’t even be a player if he got called out on the grappling stuff. Stokes Chapman and Lonergan were below the standard. Several players s**t themselves and Johnson was well I dunno. Ablett decided it was all someone else’s problem which is default Ablett when it gets tough
On that day, Hawthorn was the better team. There was a bit of luck though, players #23 and #24 for the hawks were not great. Lucky with injury
Now shall I start on the cats luck in the 2009 GF? Won just ONE quarter (like 2008)

I JUST TOLD YOU WHY!
It was Bomber taking the Cats out of their comfort by playing Scarlett as a lockdown defender! Such a brainless plan by Bomber! Scarlett provided most of the Cats' drive out of defense, so it was stupid to change that structure just for such an inconsistent forward and by doing that, It disrupted the Cat's style of play which played into Clarkson's hands!

 

[QuietB]

I JUST TOLD YOU WHY! YOU DON'T HAVE A CLUE!
It was Bomber taking the Cats out of their comfort by playing Scarlett as a lockdown defender! Such a brainless plan by Bomber! Scarlett provided most of the Cats' drive out of defense, so it was stupid to change that structure just for such an inconsistent forward and by doing that, It disrupted the Cat's style of play which played into Clarkson's hands!

Said inconsistent forward kicked 113 goals that year. There was good reason to be worried.

Hawthorn started with a defence of;

Gilham, Croad, Guerra
Birchall, Hodge, Ladson

Croad broke his foot in half midway through the second quarter and Geelong could still only manage 11 goals.

As good as Geelong were their forward line was never anything near elite.