Geelong 2008 vs St Kilda 2009 vs Collingwood 2011

[Bollox]

Geelong of 2009 is a shining example - they had no interest in competing for first spot with St Kilda
I always find it curious why St Kilda in 2009 were so keen to win every Home & Away match when that strategy hadn't worked for Geelong the previous year

Honestly, if you have such a lousy memory don't type anything at all.
I just checked the game, and the team you claim were "so keen to win every Home and Away" game played your own mob at Aurora....and RESTED Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal Santo, Fisher, Goddard, Montagna, and others.
So they were playing the reigning premiers and rested enough talent to form the backbone of an entire afl team....and still led at every change and won by plenty.
That's trying to win every game is it ?
Surprised you don't have a more accurate memory of that low point for your own club. Lyon was copping heat for what looked like actively trying to throw games by late 09...and yet you come up with the complete opposite of what actually happened ?

Could you also explain your theory why Geelong wouldn't have wanted top spot in 09. You think they didn't even want to win that famous Rnd 14 game ?

No club being 13-0 is stupid enough to think rnd 14 would be a "must win"....but no chance in hell either Geelong or Saints wouldn't want to win a game with that incredible build up, against the other mob on 13-0, in front of a stadium record crowd that had been booked out for 2 months, and every pub in the country packed out watching it.

V V Strong season was 09.

I don't rate Pies 11 in same league due to losing 3 times to a better team. So to me they weren't even the best team that HnA season.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Collingwood 2011 were scary good. Thought they would dominate for 5+ years.

They may have had Ed and Bucks not blown the side up.

 

[kickazz]

I think saints, 2009 was just such a strong season. The H&A game between the two is an all time classic, and the GF was hard, hard work between two talented but hard teams.

Pies looked unstoppable until that WTF game in the last round.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

V V Strong season was 09.

I think this is what is overlooked a bit and an argument for why 2009 could be seen as the most satisfying premiership for a Geelong supporter: you're measured by the teams that you knocked off to win it. Obviously St Kilda was an incredibly strong side at the peak of its powers. If the Saints had held on for the flag that year, I doubt there could have been any serious argument that it was the best team in St Kilda's history and even one of the best in AFL history. Collingwood won the flag the following year and if Pendlebury hadn't been injured, maybe 2009 would have been a bit different. As for the Bulldogs, how's this for a QF side (no idea if this is exactly how they lined up, but anyway)?

B: Ryan Hargrave, Brian Lake, Robert Murphy
HB: Lindsay Gilbee, Dale Morris, Jarrod Harbrow
C: Ryan Griffen, Matthew Boyd, Daniel Giansiracusa
HF: Jason Akermanis, Mitch Hahn, Nathan Eagleton
F: Shaun Higgins, Scott Welsh, Brad Johnson
R: Ben Hudson, Adam Cooney, Daniel Cross
I/C: Will Minson, Callan Ward, Josh Hill, Liam Picken

Only obvious weakness was a tall forward, though people forget how good Scott Welsh was around the mid-late 00s and Mitch Hahn was going at roughly two goals per game that season, plus of course Akermanis, Johnson, Higgins and others were more than capable of providing some goals. Everywhere else that side was extremely strong and wouldn't have looked out of place at all accepting the cup in any number of other seasons.

 

[MightyHawks]

Geelong and Saints did.

Geelong and Saints narrowly won matches

Nothing to suggest they were actually better than their opponent - they just won the game on the day

No one should have been surprised that they lost in the Grand Finals to these sides

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Pies looked unstoppable until that WTF game in the last round.

Has it been confirmed yet if that game was around the time of the player revolution Mick has hinted occurred?

Only way to explain that game IMO, only Ed and Bucks thought a coaching change was a good thing at that time.

 

[Murraj1966]

Watch the game, saints were cooked that last quarter, cats should have won by more.

Should've been 5-6 goals up at Half time unfortunately bad kicking is bad football

 

[Bollox]

I think this is what is overlooked a bit and an argument for why 2009 could be seen as the most satisfying premiership for a Geelong supporter: you're measured by the teams that you knocked off to win it. Obviously St Kilda was an incredibly strong side at the peak of its powers. If the Saints had held on for the flag that year, I doubt there could have been any serious argument that it was the best team in St Kilda's history and even in AFL history. Collingwood won the flag the following year and if Pendlebury hadn't been injured, maybe 2009 would have been a bit different. As for the Bulldogs, how's this for a QF side (no idea if this is exactly how they lined up, but anyway)?

B: Ryan Hargrave, Brian Lake, Robert Murphy
HB: Lindsay Gilbee, Dale Morris, Jarrod Harbrow
C: Ryan Griffen, Matthew Boyd, Daniel Giansiracusa
HF: Jason Akermanis, Mitch Hahn, Nathan Eagleton
F: Shaun Higgins, Scott Welsh, Brad Johnson
R: Ben Hudson, Adam Cooney, Daniel Cross
I/C: Will Minson, Callan Ward, Josh Hill, Liam Picken

Only obvious weakness was a tall forward, though people forget how good Scott Welsh was around the mid-late 00s and Mitch Hahn was going at roughly two goals per game that season, plus of course Akermanis, Johnson, Higgins and others were more than capable of providing some goals. Everywhere else that side was extremely strong and wouldn't have looked out of place at all accepting the cup in any number of other seasons.

Cracker of a team that. Easy to forget just how strong it was.
Just reinforces how strong the 09 season was.
Vague memory of Riewoldt pulling a late goal out of his arse in the PF to snatch the win ????...that's how close the Dogs got to the GF. Geelong fans must have been seriously hoping the Dogs would get up in that PF for sure, coz Geelong easily accounted for Dogs in that QF i believe.

Was pointless for the rest of us in 09. Season looked all over by May with 2 clubs so obviously a mile ahead of everyone other than the Doggies.

Yeah you lot must talk about which flag was the best between 07-11...pretty obvious to an outsider though. 09 you lot were phenomenal...coz u needed to be. Strongest season this century for mine.

 

[The Casey Cat]

Cracker of a team that. Easy to forget just how strong it was.
Just reinforces how strong the 09 season was.
Vague memory of Riewoldt pulling a late goal out of his arse in the PF to snatch the win ????...that's how close the Dogs got to the GF. Geelong fans must have been seriously hoping the Dogs would get up in that PF for sure, coz Geelong easily accounted for Dogs in that QF i believe.

Was pointless for the rest of us in 09. Season looked all over by May with 2 clubs so obviously a mile ahead of everyone other than the Doggies.

Yeah you lot must talk about which flag was the best between 07-11...pretty obvious to an outsider though. 09 you lot were phenomenal...coz u needed to be. Strongest season this century for mine.

Dead right. However unlucky the Saints were to lose the GF they were equally lucky to escape that prelim against the Dogs. This Cats fan was actually seriously hoping the Saints won that prelim. Tough as they were you could see they had slipped from their form of 5 or 6 weeks prior. They weren't scoring enough. Despite our QF win against them I wanted no part of the Dogs again. Felt it very unlikely they would fail to show up for 3 quarters against us again. Previous meetings between us that season were a win to us that Johnson should have snatched at the siren and a couple goal win to them.

 

[Ian Dunross]

Saints blew chances and unlucky looking at their season record but they were actually fortunate to even make that GF in the end. Bulldogs should have done them in that prelim.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Could make the same argument about the Cats in 07. Don't think the argument holds that much water.

 

[kickazz]

Geelong and Saints narrowly won matches

Nothing to suggest they were actually better than their opponent - they just won the game on the day

No one should have been surprised that they lost in the Grand Finals to these sides

Applied to the GF, your second paragraph is exactly what this thread is about. A significantly better side not winning on the day. We are just trying to figure out which was the best of the three. To suggest Geelong losing 08 was not a surprise to most is fanciful; and while the saints started GF day the underdog, they were clearly the better side just about all year so that was somewhat of a surprise too.

 

[kickazz]

Should've been 5-6 goals up at Half time unfortunately bad kicking is bad football

Indeed the saints solidly outplayed the cats, but given the conditions and the game styles I think 3 or 4 goals up would be more accurate. Matter of opinion I suppose.

 

[kickazz]

Has it been confirmed yet if that game was around the time of the player revolution Mick has hinted occurred?

Only way to explain that game IMO, only Ed and Bucks thought a coaching change was a good thing at that time.

Don't know, but you would think that come finals time that would not have to much impact?

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

Dead right. However unlucky the Saints were to lose the GF they were equally lucky to escape that prelim against the Dogs. This Cats fan was actually seriously hoping the Saints won that prelim. Tough as they were you could see they had slipped from their form of 5 or 6 weeks prior. They weren't scoring enough. Despite our QF win against them I wanted no part of the Dogs again. Felt it very unlikely they would fail to show up for 3 quarters against us again. Previous meetings between us that season were a win to us that Johnson should have snatched at the siren and a couple goal win to them.

I still thought St Kilda was the better team, but I just remember looking at that Bulldogs lineup for the Qualifying Final and thinking "Whoa...that's a pretty awesome side." Imagine if Barry Hall had come along a year earlier (and he was traded in for a mid-range draft pick, not a player of any consequence)...they would have been pretty much unstoppable.

 

[Murraj1966]

Indeed the saints solidly outplayed the cats, but given the conditions and the game styles I think 3 or 4 goals up would be more accurate. Matter of opinion I suppose.

4.5 in the second with no rushed behinds according to that episode of Open Mike.

That becomes 8.1 and we're 30 points up all things being the same.

 

[iameviljez]

They may have had Ed and Bucks not blown the side up.

That's true, but a lot of players also didn't quite go on to have the sort of careers that they should.

Brown and Reid perenially injured, Cloke seemingly lost all form and confidence. Thomas a shadow of who he was in 2010. Didak and Wellingham basically unfulfilled potential, Dawes still yet to really click as a good key forward and Jarryd Blair treading water for five years. I was dreading years of Collingwood dominance in 2011, but it got replaced with something just as bad for a Cats fan...

 

[iameviljez]

4.5 in the second with no rushed behinds according to that episode of Open Mike.

That becomes 8.1 and we're 30 points up all things being the same.

Yeah, but 8.1 is exceptional conversion, especially on a wet day.

Given the run of play, I thought four goals at half-time would have been an accurate reflection of the margin.

 

[Seeds]

If you're referring to the Hawkins "goal" that was 100% nullified by the free goal to St Kilda awarded against Milburn for back chatting the umpire. Otherwise, I don't recall the umpiring being a factor.

120 percent if we are being accurate. Hawkins still would of got the point.

 

[Bollox]

Dead right. However unlucky the Saints were to lose the GF they were equally lucky to escape that prelim against the Dogs. This Cats fan was actually seriously hoping the Saints won that prelim. Tough as they were you could see they had slipped from their form of 5 or 6 weeks prior. They weren't scoring enough. Despite our QF win against them I wanted no part of the Dogs again. Felt it very unlikely they would fail to show up for 3 quarters against us again. Previous meetings between us that season were a win to us that Johnson should have snatched at the siren and a couple goal win to them.

Understandable re Doggies sentiment. Just had a look...Saints would have been totally confident going into the PF v Dogs coz they;d easily beaten them twice...never behind in 8 qtrs of footy.
Maybe the Dogs just played out of their skin in that PF. No wonder Dogs fans look back at that game as a golden opp missed, and seem to hate Riewoldt so much...he kicked 5 in the QF v Pies and 4 in the PF v Dogs incl the winner...then got well held by Geelong in the GF. Murderous season he had.
Their losses were to 8th and 13th late season, and even my mob way down in 11th nearly pipped them at SCG late season. Werent scoring heavily which might confirm your form slip theory. I just remember the deflections Lyon was making about not caring if they won or lost by that stage...theory was being 19-0/20-0 was a lousy way to be by that stage and was resting a heap. With a relatively easy run home the assumption was they would go undefeated, until Lyon started resting massive numbers. Seemed to be doing the same late season at Freo over more recent years.
Brilliant season it was.

 

[Seeds]

Yes but this is a thread about 3 sides that won 20+ H&A games, finished top of the ladder and lost the Grand Final

What needs to be acknowledged is that at no time during the H&A season did any of the three sides have a solid win against their biggest challenger

What also needs to be acknowledged is that these three teams all dominated parts of their season to an extent hawthorn has never reached in the past three seasons at any point.

 

[Murraj1966]

The thing that irks me most is if that was a season in terms of competitive nature like 2007 St Kilda would've waltzed in to a flag but there was a Geelong hell bent on atonement.

I've often wondered if the Hawks lost in 08 would Geelong have won 09 without that desire to go back?

 

[Murraj1966]

What also needs to be acknowledged is that these three teams all dominated parts of their season to an extent hawthorn has never reached in the past three seasons at any point.

I'd take a threepeat over going 19-0 to start the season any day to be fair.

 

[Seeds]

Dead right. However unlucky the Saints were to lose the GF they were equally lucky to escape that prelim against the Dogs. This Cats fan was actually seriously hoping the Saints won that prelim. Tough as they were you could see they had slipped from their form of 5 or 6 weeks prior. They weren't scoring enough. Despite our QF win against them I wanted no part of the Dogs again. Felt it very unlikely they would fail to show up for 3 quarters against us again. Previous meetings between us that season were a win to us that Johnson should have snatched at the siren and a couple goal win to them.

what are you on about? We beat the dogs much more easily only three weeks earlier in the first final.
In the wet weather conditions we got on gf day I definitely preferred playing the dogs over the saints whose press was almost impossible to break through in the wet.

 

[Dazb86]

Understandable re Doggies sentiment. Just had a look...Saints would have been totally confident going into the PF v Dogs coz they;d easily beaten them twice...never behind in 8 qtrs of footy.
Maybe the Dogs just played out of their skin in that PF. No wonder Dogs fans look back at that game as a golden opp missed, and seem to hate Riewoldt so much...he kicked 5 in the QF v Pies and 4 in the PF v Dogs incl the winner...then got well held by Geelong in the GF. Murderous season he had.
Their losses were to 8th and 13th late season, and even my mob way down in 11th nearly pipped them at SCG late season. Werent scoring heavily which might confirm your form slip theory. I just remember the deflections Lyon was making about not caring if they won or lost by that stage...theory was being 19-0/20-0 was a lousy way to be by that stage and was resting a heap. With a relatively easy run home the assumption was they would go undefeated, until Lyon started resting massive numbers. Seemed to be doing the same late season at Freo over more recent years.
Brilliant season it was.

We never really could beat the Saints under Ross Lyon. Their best players were just better than ours during that period. Especially Reiwoldt. Geelong allowed us more freedom to play our normal gamestyle. Had a fair few good games against the Cats during that era.

 

[kickazz]

The thing that irks me most is if that was a season in terms of competitive nature like 2007 St Kilda would've waltzed in to a flag but there was a Geelong hell bent on atonement.

I've often wondered if the Hawks lost in 08 would Geelong have won 09 without that desire to go back?

Maybe the desire factor not so much as lessons learned. On Open Mike, Can Mooney described how Geelong in 08 felt invincible and did not manage their bodies, and their performance toward the end of the season suffered for it. Had they still won, that lesson may well have not been truly learned for 09.