Low quality bullshit, mate. Do better.
Geelong and Umpires: Time for a Royal Commission?
- Thread starter CarnTheScray
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- Jul 28, 2012
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Freo were too good for the Giants (6 goals to 4 pts in the final QTR) and the question footy fans must come to grips with is " Do the free-kicks really matter? " Dogs gave away two 50 metre STAND penalties in a row against the Tigers", but Richmond simply outplayed them all night anyway... Fremantle should've been further ahead at 3QTR time. It will be interesting to hear the explanation of the free-kick discrepancy, but I don't think it would've changed the result?
In Andrews's case, he got caught under the ball trying to keep the bigger man behind him and it didn't help when his own teammate came across in front of him trying to spoil. He had the best position and if it was a one-on-one, he would've had a better chance in the contest. Hawkins is entitled to stand his ground as Andrews stopped and threw his arms back in front of him. It didn't matter, Geelong should've won by 4 goals.
Noidnadroj
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I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Hawkins has recaptured his very best form since they removed the ‘hands in the back’ rule. The umpires seem to have forgotten they still need to pay if it’s a ‘push’ in the back.
Which is not to say others don’t also benefit, just that Hawkins is the best at getting away with it and good luck to him. Umpires just need to be a lot better at distinguishing between holding a player out and shoving.
Which is not to say others don’t also benefit, just that Hawkins is the best at getting away with it and good luck to him. Umpires just need to be a lot better at distinguishing between holding a player out and shoving.
Yes. They do.
This bizarre notion that winning a contest doesn't matter, simply because it was the umpire's call rather than the player's actions is simply baffling.
Every single contest matters. Winning contests is what football is all about. Getting a Free Kick, or not giving one away is incredibly important.
To suggest otherwise is just utter nonsense.
Of course players and coaches can't get worked up about it, as they need to focus on their actions, rather than actions of the umpires which they can't control.
But for fans to not acknowledge the importance of Free Kicks is just stupendous in it's lack of logic.
Of course individual umpiring decisions are rarely the reason games are won or lost, but that can't be confused with umpiring decisions not being relevant.
“Stoppage free kicks hurt us once again. We’ve got to get better. We’ve spoken about that all year, about trying to eradicate that from our game but it creeps in at critical stages and it’s really really costly.
“You can’t defend from a free kick, you can’t put pressure on and they get a free disposal. We’ve got to get better on that front.”
- D. Hardwick
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
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When Hawkins shoves an opponent in the back and marks it, where does that show on the free kick stats?
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
It doesn’t have to in order to debunk this stupid umpires pet theory.
Are you suggesting that the biggest and strongest key forward in the competition over an extended period is only infringed upon once every two matches and that even THOSE free kicks are awarded only because of a league conspiracy to look after him?
Wojcinski
Brownlow Medallist
Yes
- Feb 12, 2017
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Umps give him nothing. If he was judged similarly to some of his contemporaries he'd have another 50~ goals added to his career tally.
thegameisfixed
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- Apr 9, 2022
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Anyone have comments about the umpiring in the Syd v NM game.
60 frees paid for the game.
Disgusting viewing!
60 frees paid for the game.
Disgusting viewing!
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I have no care for either side of the argument but this is cringe and an inaccurate use of statistics considering the context of what the other side is claiming.
They’re claiming Hawkins gets away with pushing people in the back - therefor no free against is paid - hence the umpire bias.
Can’t have a stat for something that isn’t recorded..
No, the claim is that he’s an umpires pet. An umpires pet, especially an elite one with the physical attributes he has, and who therefore forces defenders to be more physical and desperate, is going to get more than 1 free kick every two games.
That's a common misconception. You can't play against Hawkins from behind because he's both quick and incredibly bulky to get around, and he's uncommonly good at marking down near his shins, so if you get caught behind you're done for. So most defenders will try to play him from in front if they can. But Geelong's midfielders have worked this out too, so they'll often pop it over the top to him while the defender is 5m in front, which forces the defender to back up. At this point Hawkins is allowed to hold his ground, even with his hands. The alternative is letting his opponent jump all over him. As bad as the umps are, this is actually one thing they're good at picking up. Admittedly Hawkins got away with a genuine push in the back against Brisbane, but the majority of the time that's not what he's doing.
But even if you assume, for the sake of argument, that Hawkins should concede more free kicks than he does that doesn't explain why he gets so few himself. Look at the way Zorko jumped into him in the 1st half. No eyes on the footy, it was as clear a marking infringement as you'll ever see, and it's unthinkable that the umps would have missed it against Riewoldt or Franklin, but somehow Hawkins never gets paid those. Nobody can seriously claim that he only gets genuinely infringed once a fortnight, so the stats show that he really does miss out on a lot of frees that are there.
But even if you assume, for the sake of argument, that Hawkins should concede more free kicks than he does that doesn't explain why he gets so few himself. Look at the way Zorko jumped into him in the 1st half. No eyes on the footy, it was as clear a marking infringement as you'll ever see, and it's unthinkable that the umps would have missed it against Riewoldt or Franklin, but somehow Hawkins never gets paid those. Nobody can seriously claim that he only gets genuinely infringed once a fortnight, so the stats show that he really does miss out on a lot of frees that are there.
- Jul 28, 2012
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The nonsense stems from fans who think the umpires will determine who wins and loses? How do you explain the undisciplined Giants against Freo and the two Western Bulldogs 50 metre penalties that resulted in goals at a crucial time? The Dogs players went off the rails. Frees are important, but sometimes it comes down to who is the most disciplined? 42-16 is definitely eyebrow raising, but the GWS players have only themselves to blame, not the umpires.
We place far too much importance on Free kicks in the modern game. The old "we wuz robbed" bleating doesn't hold any weight anymore. Footy fans are not great analytical thinkers, too one-eyed to be objective about it as the obsession with free-kicks begins before the first bounce and nothing will ever change from season to season, the game is almost impossible to adjudicate.
- Feb 19, 2011
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Well he hardly gets frees for opponents arms around the body which commonly occurs with other forwards. Not his fault his big and fat and how bout dat, well well well well...
- Oct 29, 2017
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Any neutrals prepared to defend Hawkins?
No? Says it all really.
No? Says it all really.
Any Richmond fans prepared to analyse facts and figures rather than go on a never ending conquest to prove that there is in fact a shallow end of the gene pool? No? Says it all really
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Why let them get to you in the first place? They beat GWS convincingly and they had my respect since. 2020 meant nothing to me because there’s no shame in losing to a team who had now won 3 in 4 years.
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Fantastic comment and analysis. Required reading for all Richmond fans.
Wojcinski
Brownlow Medallist
That's just nonsense.
In one breath you talk about the significance of giving away Frees and being 'disciplined' (whatever that means), then in the next breath you seem to suggest that Free Kicks have little relevance in a game.
That's complete and utter nonsense.
Umpires play an enormous role in the result. It cannot logically be argued any other way. If they miss Free Kicks or pay wrong ones - they're immediately directly impacting the game.
They are literally involved in every single contest during a game, and each rule has variations as to how it should be interpreted. Almost every decision could be Play On, or a Free Kick. And most Free Kicks could really be paid either way.
Players and of course coaches cannot allow themselves to be caught up in these variables, and they are largely uncontrollable. However there is nothing wrong with fans acknowledging the significant impact that umpire have on games and results.
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Wojcinski
Brownlow Medallist
that isn't what the constant sooking on this and other social media platforms is though, is it? People genuinely think Geelong and some other clubs have advantages over the opposition because umpires apply the rules differently to them. People out there think umpires legitimately cheat to enable certain clubs to win games.
I've always argued that frees for is the most meaningful statistic here is frees for. Frees against, maybe you're just undisciplined or you play an uncompromising style of football where you concede some "professional" frees a la Richmond at their peak. But the frees you concede have little to no effect on how often you get infringed yourself. In the long team will play all the other teams, and players will come up against all their usual opponents, the undisciplined and the scrupulously fair alike.
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Human nature mate.
You've got to take into account how many games they've umpired. How many yrs experience they've had. Lifetime experience etc.. all that goes into the equation.
When I was playing soccer.. we were encouraged to establish a rapport with the refs and that.. get to know em and that.. why.. cause they're not infallible.. it was always like.. hey.. come and join us for a souv after the game in the clubrooms. or.. hey.. how's your week been.. oh.. you're reffing our game today.. sick.. you're the best ref.. and that. During the game.. a simple.. c'mon man.. you know I love ya.. but that wasn't a free kick.. chances are.. the ref will reward you with a free that's not there.. or he might just be a lil more lenient in a 60/40 tackle.. part and parcel of the game mate. Refs are human.. we need to accept that their responses are gonna be human as well.
If you can use your experience.. your charisma.. your swagger.. your stature.. to get favourable decisions from the ref in a game of soccer.. good luck to ya. You're not breaking any rules.. you're playing it smart.
Hawkins has been around long enough to understand all of this.
You've got to take into account how many games they've umpired. How many yrs experience they've had. Lifetime experience etc.. all that goes into the equation.
When I was playing soccer.. we were encouraged to establish a rapport with the refs and that.. get to know em and that.. why.. cause they're not infallible.. it was always like.. hey.. come and join us for a souv after the game in the clubrooms. or.. hey.. how's your week been.. oh.. you're reffing our game today.. sick.. you're the best ref.. and that. During the game.. a simple.. c'mon man.. you know I love ya.. but that wasn't a free kick.. chances are.. the ref will reward you with a free that's not there.. or he might just be a lil more lenient in a 60/40 tackle.. part and parcel of the game mate. Refs are human.. we need to accept that their responses are gonna be human as well.
If you can use your experience.. your charisma.. your swagger.. your stature.. to get favourable decisions from the ref in a game of soccer.. good luck to ya. You're not breaking any rules.. you're playing it smart.
Hawkins has been around long enough to understand all of this.
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