Review Geelong d Richmond by 67 points

Cataholic

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IMHO, I think many are sucked in by his after siren match winner v Demons at Geelong. His past 2 seasons have been below par for a top defender. I get that he is attacking and a decent kick, but not under pressure. He has a good size body- let's put him at the coalface in the centre/wing. Or back to VFL for a while. Bews , once he is really ready, is a better lock down defender and he would complement MOC and Henry
Yep, he's shown a vulnerability under pressure and now it's being compounded by his fitness base.
 

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Ricketz

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Never said you just had to take my word for it. That's just petulance.

Once more, the basis for my opinion is 'observation'.

He has looked to be off the boil for a couple of weeks now, imo, but if your observation differs then so be it.
Not good enough to drop him for mine. Especially when you would have to consider your observation the only reason.
 

Cataholic

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Not good enough to drop him for mine. Especially when you would have to consider your observation the only reason.
How is anyone dropped if not through an observation that they are not playing to the required standard??

Anyhow, let's agree to disagree.
 

Vdubs

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You may, but that is just a comment. May I?

Third most intercept possessions behind Houli and Stewart.

I am confident these criticisms are not based on evidence. He was good on Friday and here we are.
Imho, the best "evidence" is to sit through the replay after the game is done and dusted. Second time around is revealing. When the game was there to be lost, Tuohy was one of the main contributors.
Once we were on top, he may have improved, but even then got away with some stuff that will kill us in September, I proffer.
 

Cataholic

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6th most time on ground of all players and fifth highest peak speed in defence.

So, fitness doesn't seem to be an issue either...
Both mean little really.

Higher time on ground could simply be the result of being left there in a bid to find form, and how often has he been in the Top 5 fastest over the first 12 rounds?

Stats can be distorted to suit any argument.

We have differing views. No problem there. I respect your perspective, but can see this being a vortex so, again, I'll agree to disagree and leave it here.
 

Vdubs

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Both mean little really.

Higher time on ground could simply be the result of being left there in a bid to find form, and how often has he been in the Top 5 fastest over the first 12 rounds?

Stats can be distorted to suit any argument.

We have differing views. No problem there. I respect your perspective, but can see this being a vortex so, again, I'll agree to disagree and leave it here.
I have no doubt that is what is going on.
 

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Ricketz

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Both mean little really.

Higher time on ground could simply be the result of being left there in a bid to find form, and how often has he been in the Top 5 fastest over the first 12 rounds?

Stats can be distorted to suit any argument.

We have differing views. No problem there. I respect your perspective, but can see this being a vortex so, again, I'll agree to disagree and leave it here.
Yeah fair enough, it's hard to discuss the merits of dropping someone with somebody who dismisses all contrary evidence and just knows he is playing badly. Just wish you wouldn't bag out players unfairly, is all.
 

Vdubs

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The club definitely doesn't work your way. It uses evidence.
But as you know, the club also does not always reward players who perform on the day. There was nothing wrong with Zac Smith v Swans. In fact Longmire rated his game, but he was dropped. And similarly, some players are definitely given more lenience, as Tuohy will be the recipient of until he hits his best again. He may well have the points in his credit, maybe like Guthrie who some argue (NOT ME) is lucky to be getting games weekly.
 

Cataholic

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Yeah fair enough, it's hard to discuss the merits of dropping someone with somebody who dismisses all contrary evidence and just knows he is playing badly. Just wish you wouldn't bag out players unfairly, is all.
My last word....... I believe I've weighed up the evidence available to me fairly, and understand some will agree with my conclusion, others not.

Observation is a funny thing. Same incident can create multiple interpretations. And every witness will be adamant that they've assessed the circumstances accurately.
 

Ricketz

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But as you know, the club also does not always reward players who perform on the day. There was nothing wrong with Zac Smith v Swans. In fact Longmire rated his game, but he was dropped. And similarly, some players are definitely given more lenience, as Tuohy will be the recipient of until he hits his best again. He may well have the points in his credit, maybe like Guthrie who some argue (NOT ME) is lucky to be getting games weekly.
Yep, and until you provide evidence that either A. He has been performing badly enough to be dropped, or B. There is some one more worthy to replace him,

I will call bull dust on your opinion. In my mind he has be ok, and think you are way off with your assessment. I refer back to those stats as evidence.
 

Ricketz

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My last word....... I believe I've weighed up the evidence available to me fairly, and understand some will agree with my conclusion, others not.

Observation is a funny thing. Same incident can create multiple interpretations. And every witness will be adamant that they've assessed the circumstances accurately.
So, based on the inherent unreliability of observation alone, as you state here, you will still go with yours and call for him to be dropped.

I just want to put it into perspective. This call for Tuohy to be dropped.
 

Ricketz

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Imho, the best "evidence" is to sit through the replay after the game is done and dusted. Second time around is revealing. When the game was there to be lost, Tuohy was one of the main contributors.
Once we were on top, he may have improved, but even then got away with some stuff that will kill us in September, I proffer.
Where, in the first quarter? Any examples? I'm watching it now. It will be interesting to see whether you are right or not.
 

Vdubs

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Yep, and until you provide evidence that either A. He has been performing badly enough to be dropped, or B. There is some one more worthy to replace him,

I will call bull dust on your opinion. In my mind he has be ok, and think you are way off with your assessment. I refer back to those stats as evidence.
You actually can not call bull dust on an opinion. Sure disagree, but bull dust is as derogatory as ********, as you know. Nobody here wants Tuohy not to succeed, but to say he has been good goes against what several supporters have viewed, and that is not bull. It's just an observation.
 

barmy44

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He's among the better ex-footballers in the media.

Of the ex-players I rate Lyon highest when it comes to analysis. Others I rate highly: Bartel (was weirdly poor when he first started in the media but is now fantastic), Lloyd, Carey, and Riewoldt. Wish there were more of their vintage.
bartel seems to have good insight to me, but he will never be comfortable in front of a camera. definitely a lot better than he used to be, especially during his playing days, but his wooden awkwardness is only ever just swimming below the surface, which takes away from his insights a little.
 

Vdubs

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Where, in the first quarter? Any examples? I'm watching it now. It will be interesting to see whether you are right or not.
I may well be guilty of having seen things Tuohy did that confirmed a preconceived belief of him that I've held, based on the 'evidence" of what I've previously seen of course. You know, see the team under pressure, watch Tuohy do some things that you hoped he wouldn't, but he actually did, and then the belief that he is vulnerable under pressure. Not saying droppable btw, I have said get him out of defence OR drop if he really is struggling.
 

Vdubs

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bartel seems to have good insight to me, but he will never be comfortable in front of a camera. definitely a lot better than he used to be, especially during his playing days, but his wooden awkwardness is only ever just swimming below the surface, which takes away from his insights a little.
Bartel reminds me of Steve Waugh, my favourite Aussie captain. Succinct, reserved, understated, but well worth listening to. (Bartel btw, is not my favourite Cat, but of course I rate him.)
 

barmy44

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Bartel reminds me of Steve Waugh, my favourite Aussie captain. Succinct, reserved, understated, but well worth listening to. (Bartel btw, is not my favourite Cat, but of course I rate him.)
dont disagree... well worth listening to, but not always easy to listen to, due to his shyness. dont think media comes naturally to him at all.
 

nohairandfair

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IMHO, I think many are sucked in by his after siren match winner v Demons at Geelong. His past 2 seasons have been below par for a top defender. I get that he is attacking and a decent kick, but not under pressure. He has a good size body- let's put him at the coalface in the centre/wing. Or back to VFL for a while. Bews , once he is really ready, is a better lock down defender and he would complement MOC and Henry
Bews will get a chance when either of Tuohy or O'Connor are rested/injured. But I can't see him displacing either of them on a permanent basis. Tuohy missed the entire preseason and has played only the six games; he will get better and is one of our premier exponents by foot. O'Connor has been sublime and is no chance of being dropped.

Bews doesn't kick well and turnovers in defence are his Achilles heel. Like GHS, the Cats have persisted with Jed but the fundamental execution skills by foot are lacking. He's a depth player now.

We have the best defensive group in the competition by some margin and it would be folly to disrupt the synergy that is building. The competition in 2019 is relatively weak and we are a chance again for some silverware. We need to keep things rolling.
 

iameviljez

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But as you know, the club also does not always reward players who perform on the day. There was nothing wrong with Zac Smith v Swans. In fact Longmire rated his game, but he was dropped.
Because, over the body of evidence of the last 18 months, Stanley is the better ruckman. And besides, Callum Sinclair is frankly one of the easiest kills in the AFL atm.
 
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