Review Geelong defeats St Kilda by 47 points at KP

[Partridge]

The core of our team is Hawkins, Selwood, Danger, Duncan, 2E, Menzel, Taylor, Henderson, Ablett, Blitz.
Would you disagree there our best/most important 10 players?
One of them has been drafted since 2011.

You could probably add Cam Guthrie, Smith, Scott Selwood, and Stanley to that list.

 

[catempire]

The core of our team is Hawkins, Selwood, Danger, Duncan, 2E, Menzel, Taylor, Henderson, Ablett, Blitz.
Would you disagree there our best/most important 10 players?
One of them has been drafted since 2011.

We are talking at cross purposes. A rebuild is overhauling your list. How you replace players.

Whether your best players were acquired through the draft or trade or free agency says nothing about how you rebuilt your list.

 

[Spazz Cat]

You could probably add Cam Guthrie, Smith, Scott Selwood, and Stanley to that list.

Yeah Guthrie has played most games in that time, one of the ruckman sort of has to be in, wouldn't add Scooter though, just probably won't play regularly enough.
Suppose you could the same of Ablett though.

 

[Spazz Cat]

We are talking at cross purposes. A rebuild is overhauling your list. How you replace players.

Whether your best players were acquired through the draft or trade or free agency says nothing about how you rebuilt your list.

No point really discussing it then. Don't even know if it'd even be possible for any team to trade in 42 players.
What counts as "core"? Just sheer numbers or most important/most regular Afl games?
I would've thought the latter.

 

[catempire]

No point really discussing it then. Don't even know if it'd even be possible for any team to trade in 42 players.
What counts as "core"? Just sheer numbers or most important/most regular Afl games?
I would've thought the latter.

The original post that kicked this off claimed Geelong hadn’t rebuilt its list because it had traded players in. That’s just demonstrably false.

Each club has currency in the form of picks and players to try to enhance their list. At the end of the day, whether you acquired Dangerfield through the draft or trade that doesn’t affect how valuable he is to your list. People use the trading and free agency concepts in a pejorative way which makes no sense at all.

 

[Landgraft]

If you use a pick you have or a player on them it is paying for them. Doesn't matter how you get the pick.

So when you say that we have sent out 5 second rounders you don't actually mean that.

How many teams do you think haven't shipped out at least that much in players and picks since 2012? Doesn't seem like it's a meaningful measurement.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Looks like you haven’t been paying attention in the free agency era. Pure list rebuilds don’t exist anymore.

There are some clubs that have recently decided to go down the path of rebuilding their list. We decided long ago to go down the path of transitioning the list instead. It's really not that hard to work out.

 

[BORIS332]

There are some clubs that have recently decided to go down the path of rebuilding their list. We decided long ago to go down the path of transitioning the list instead. It's really not that hard to work out.

Who has rebuilt their list recently?

 

[Stan The Caddy]

There are 7 players left from our 2011 Premiership List. So nearly 40 new players (net) since then.

Since 2011 we have taken 56 selections in the national and rookie drafts. We have traded in 10 players and acquired 3 free agents in that time.

The experienced players we have brought in have been to replace the experienced ones we lost. That hasn't been the rebuild part - they represent only 6 out of 45-odd players (primary and rookie).

The core of the rebuild has been the draft.

Come on mate. Every teams list has recruited the majority of their players through the draft. It's not the NBA. Besides, seeing as though we've turned over our list so heavily throughout the last 7 years it seems to me like our transition is over and therefore it's only logical and reasonable to expect success at the end of that which was the original point that I was making all along. Or do we need to wait a couple more years until we expect success when a lot of our best players will either be in their 30's or at least knocking on the door of that age? 7 years is a fair amount of time even for a rebuild let alone a transition yet we have people on here saying that we're still currently going through one. How long is this mythical rebuild going to last? Sorry but the powers that be have had enough time to transition the list and it's now time to deliver.

The next two years, maybe 3 if we're lucky we'll have a list that's capable of seriously competing for a flag. If it turns out that we weren't good enough then so be it but it's not because of some mythical rebuild that's going to save us at the end of it as some would like to believe.

 

[catempire]

Come on mate. Every teams list has recruited the majority of their players through the draft. It's not the NBA. Besides, seeing as though we've turned over our list so heavily throughout the last 7 years it seems to me like our transition is over and therefore it's only logical and reasonable to expect success at the end of that which was the original point that I was making all along. Or do we need to wait a couple more years until we expect success when a lot of our best players will either be in their 30's or at least knocking on the door of that age? 7 years is a fair amount of time even for a rebuild let alone a transition yet we have people on here saying that we're still currently going through one. How long is this mythical rebuild going to last? Sorry but the powers that be have had enough time to transition the list and it's now time to deliver.

The next two years, maybe 3 if we're lucky we'll have a list that's capable of seriously competing for a flag. If it turns out that we weren't good enough then so be it but it's not because of some mythical rebuild that's going to save us at the end of it as some would like to believe.

Somebody said it the other day: the rebuild is constant.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

For Tigers, they also recruited from other clubs: Houli, Grigg, Nankervis and Townsend - so 6 overall.

For Bulldogs, they also recruited Biggs and Hamling. Definitely the best example to match your point, but still 3 players of their premiership 22, not 1.

If your point is that none of those recruits were superstar names, fair enough. But every team these days is a good mix of draft and trade - including premiership ones.

The Tigers and Bulldogs went about it differently to us in that they initially hit the draft hard to form the core of their team and then began to target established players to top up their list after that. We decided to use both avenues basically right from the start which is why we have transitioned our list rather than rebuilt it.

It's not just about what's happened but also about the timing of it all.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

The core of our team is Hawkins, Selwood, Danger, Duncan, 2E, Menzel, Taylor, Henderson, Ablett, Blitz.
Would you disagree there our best/most important 10 players?
One of them has been drafted since 2011.

Quality observation.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Who has rebuilt their list recently?

Every club has apparently.

 

[Footy Smarts]

The core of our team is Hawkins, Selwood, Danger, Duncan, 2E, Menzel, Taylor, Henderson, Ablett, Blitz.
Would you disagree there our best/most important 10 players?
One of them has been drafted since 2011.

But not many draftees are key players in their early years unless they come in as mature aged players. But Blicavs, Bews, Kelly, Stewart, Cockatoo, McCarthy, Gregson, Menegola, Ratugolea, Parfitt and Fogarty is a good group who are best 22 (a few need some luck with injuries). They might not be in our best 5 now but they're playing important roles and could develop into key players in future.

 

[dazbroncos]

The Tigers and Bulldogs went about it differently to us in that they initially hit the draft hard to form the core of their team and then began to target established players to top up their list after that. We decided to use both avenues basically right from the start which is why we have transitioned our list rather than rebuilt it.

It's not just about what's happened but also about the timing of it all.

St Kilda hit the draft hard.. smashing success that has been.

Go Catters

 

[Spazz Cat]

But not many draftees are key players in their early years unless they come in as mature aged players. But Blicavs, Bews, Kelly, Stewart, Cockatoo, McCarthy, Gregson, Menegola, Ratugolea, Parfitt and Fogarty is a good group who are best 22 (a few need some luck with injuries). They might not be in our best 5 now but they're playing important roles and could develop into key players in future.

I agree and I hope they do and I'm sure some will.
The point was though 2011 is a long time ago know. If you back before the last 2 drafts who have we got?
Blitz ,Menegola, Cuthrie, now Bews bout the only regular best 22 players. That's 4 players in 5 drafts.
I don't have a problem with it but the core of our team has definitely been pre 2011 players and trades/FA.
We haven't been making finals because of our drafting in the last 7 years.

 

[catempire]

We haven't been making finals because of our drafting in the last 7 years.

We have been making finals because we’ve been maintaining a finals quality list. It doesn’t matter a piece of piss how we’ve done it.

 

[Spazz Cat]

We have been making finals because we’ve been maintaining a finals quality list. It doesn’t matter a piece of piss how we’ve done it.

No it doesn't one bit. But it's a discussion and that's my take on how we've done it.
Lucky we have done it because most of our draft picks in 5 years went out the door, or to the rehab room.

 

[Partridge]

St Kilda hit the draft hard.. smashing success that has been.

So have plenty of sides. You still have to do it well.

St.Kilda, Carlton, and Melbourne - not so well.

Richmond and Bulldogs - might have done it slightly better.

 

[catempire]

No it doesn't one bit. But it's a discussion and that's my take on we've done it.

I’ll file it with the discussion about water being wet and cynical being cynical.

 

[Spazz Cat]

I’ll file it with the discussion about water being wet and cynical being cynical.

I am very bored at the moment I can argue about anything all day.
Water isn't wet because it is a liquid that wets things. Once you come into contact with water you become wet Until then water is liquid and you are dry.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

So we’ve settled that then. We have and are rebuilding no different to many other clubs.
Glad we cleared that up

 

[Warhorse]

So we’ve settled that then. We have and are rebuilding no different to many other clubs.
Glad we cleared that up

I would say refreshing or tweaking now rather than rebuilding.

 

[Cool Cat]

I agree and I hope they do and I'm sure some will.
The point was though 2011 is a long time ago know. If you back before the last 2 drafts who have we got?
Blitz ,Menegola, Cuthrie, now Bews bout the only regular best 22 players. That's 4 players in 5 drafts.
I don't have a problem with it but the core of our team has definitely been pre 2011 players and trades/FA.
We haven't been making finals because of our drafting in the last 7 years.

Yeah there were definitely 3 or 4 years there where we traded away higher picks and filled out list spots with guys picked at the back of the draft. The fact that some of our top picks this decade have also effectively been busts doesn’t help either. Whether that has resulted in a ‘hole’ in our age profile equivalent to the one which we were trying to fill with danger, Henderson etc, I don’t know. But I am sure happy we have added some quality topend kids in this last draft, and I think we probably need a few more this year and next also.

 

[Cool Cat]

So we’ve settled that then. We have and are rebuilding no different to many other clubs.
Glad we cleared that up

Was that rebuilding or transitioning though? I’m confused.