Play Nice Geelong home final at GHMBA Stadium, is this an unfair advantage?

_Mike_

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So you are saying if the Eagles finish 2nd and the Pies 4th, and they meet in a Prelim it is at the MCG?
Even easier for folks to understand that the Eagles played a prelim at Perth last year against Melbourne. If a team wins their first final (qualifying final) as a top 4 team, they earn the ability to host a home preliminary final. Crows, Giants, Eagles, Swans etc all have that equal opportunity. A team finishing 5th-8th cannot earn a home preliminary final. The problem is that the MCG currently is tenanted by a number of teams.

On to the topic of this thread. Where Geelong finishes 1/2, it’s highly probable that they will play a qualifying final at home unless there is a fix turning concern with crowd attendance. For argument sake, it’s more likely to see Geelong play a home qualifying finally at GMHBA against GWS than it would be to see them play Collingwood there. A preliminary final at GMHBA would still come under the same considerations, imo, on the basis of finals tickets access for competing club members, as well as contractual obligations between the AFL and MCC.
 

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Michaels

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If I'm Geelong I'm keeping real quiet about all of this because as it stands now they get to play a good chunk of home games at GMHBA which is a unique ground for them with it's own quirks that the Cats players understand better than most, and then they also get to play a small portion of games at the G, getting the best of both worlds!

If I'm a player I reckon that is the ideal outcome so you still get the feel and experience on the G typically in front of big crowds, which a lot of the interstate teams who are in finals crave for.
 

kickazz

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If I'm Geelong I'm keeping real quiet about all of this because as it stands now they get to play a good chunk of home games at GMHBA which is a unique ground for them with it's own quirks that the Cats players understand better than most, and then they also get to play a small portion of games at the G, getting the best of both worlds!

If I'm a player I reckon that is the ideal outcome so you still get the feel and experience on the G typically in front of big crowds, which a lot of the interstate teams who are in finals crave for.
Agree I like it.

Maybe a first week final at KP would be worth trying.

But overall I think it's a good setup.
 

kidkenobi

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Travel is not the issue - i'm talking about Home ground advantage - this is enjoyed by the interstate teams and rightly so due to the fact that nearly half of their games are played on the road in a hostile environment playing against a team which does have a a home ground advantage .

The Melbourne based clubs have all lost their home ground advantage once ground rationalisation happened - turning their home ground into a Neutral environment apart from when they play an interstate based club.

Geelong still has a real home ground advantage through the season but also has the advantage of playing games on neutral grounds against the other Melbourne based teams.

Kardinia Park is a a fortress - since full ground rationalisation was completed in 2006 Geelong have played 106 games at the venue - out of that they have only lost 13 games - close to a 90% winning record. Combine this with the number of games they play on neutral venues this gives them a huge advantage over the rest of the competition. This compromises the integrity of the game.
But you do realise Geelong is a seperate city to Melbourne... Hypothetically if Ballarat got an AFL team in the future, where should they play? At the MCG? Then what’s the point of even having a team from Ballarat? Geelong’s situation might be unique but do you want the AFL or the Melbourne Football League?
 

Bloodied52

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I believe if their ladder position qualifies for a home final, then they should have it.

I do not see it as an unfair advantage at all. I note the Tigers play their last seven games at the G. Is that an unfair advantage leading into the finals. Certainly it is no more nor less than any advantage the Cats get from a home final.

I think the whining about fairness or otherwise comes from fans of some big Melbourne Clubs, who have barely played there for 20 years or more. To those folk I say their Clubs enjoy playing Cat home games at the G.
 

And_ROOS

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Sure Melbourne teams sell home games, yes. Is Geelong forced to pay these 'away games'? No, they get handed out to visiting interstate sides. Instead of an away game at the MCG its either Tassie or Alice Springs or Ballarat. That's all about crowds and sponsorship $$$ not fairness and the interstate sides shoulder and share that unfair load.
Yeah like when interstate team Carlton had to play Hawthorn in Tasmania in Rd6? Or when Gold Coast hosted St Kilda in Townsville in Rd13?
Or when North Melbourne then host St Kilda in Tasmania in Rd 16?
In 2019
North Melbourne host 2 Victorian teams and two Interstate teams in Tasmania.
Melbourne host 2 Interstate teams for their 2 games in Darwin.
Western Bulldogs host 2 Interstate teams for their 2 games in Ballarat.
Gold Coast host a Victorian team in Townsville.
Hawthorn host 1 Victorian team and 3 Interstate teams in Tasmania.
GWS host 2 Victorian teams and 1 Interstate team in Canberra.

That means you have 6 Vic teams travelling for those 'away games' and 10 Interstate teams travelling for those 'away games'. Which sort of refutes your argument that all those matches go to interstate teams.
Of those 10 matches, 1 is hosted by GWS, and 2 are hosted by the Bulldogs. Meaning that 3 of those matches wouldn't give those teams MCG experience as they would be held at Spotless Stadium or Marvel Stadium.
And theres no guarantee that the North Melbourne and Hawthorn matches would be at the MCG and not at Marvel Stadium either. Only Melbourne would be nearly 100% likely to have played their opponents at the MCG.

I asked if Geelong traveled big kms. Your response is that they had to travel an hour up the road. Which would you prefer a trip to Darwin or a one hour car ride? So again, Geelong is advantaged by luckily avoiding interstate trips.
We travel an hour. For HOME games. When was the last time the Eagles had to do that? Imagine if WCE actually played out of Mandurah and then you got told actually you have to play home games against Freo at their home ground an hour away. You would boo Optus Stadium into the ground.
Geelong do the Adelaide double, the Queensland double, Sydney once and Perth once. And also had to play 5 of last years top 8 teams by Rd 6. Including the 2 teams that played in the GF and the team that finished 4th. Would hardly say Geelong have the easiest fixture in the league.

The MCG still holds home ground advantage against interstate teams. One team spends a day travelling, flying and living in a hotel. The other pops up the road in an hour.
So the grounds dimensions don't make any difference at all? Or the fact that the AFL has given us "home" MCG matches and finals at times when our supporters can't make it to the match, meaning that often we play a "home" match against an MCG tenant, who has a significantly larger fan support? I am not saying that we haven't got it easier than interstate teams, because we do, but that doesn't mean its an advantage against our opponents unless we play teams that are interstate.

So apart from finals being played at the MCG how unfair really is the fixtures for Geelong?
You mean besides earning a home ground advantage that we don't actually get? So the AFL will let us play 80% of our HOME fixtures in Geelong, but once we make finals we can't play in Geelong? Seems very strange when GWS get finals at their boutique stadium that holds less. Spotless stadium is only 40mins away from the SCG that has double capacity and is a better ground why aren't they forced to play there?
 

BIRDBRAIN

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But you do realise Geelong is a seperate city to Melbourne... Hypothetically if Ballarat got an AFL team in the future, where should they play? At the MCG? Then what’s the point of even having a team from Ballarat? Geelong’s situation might be unique but do you want the AFL or the Melbourne Football League?
The solution is Geelong expand their ground to 50k and play all 11 home games there and finals, that way their away games in Melbourne become genuine away games.
 

silverscope

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The solution is Geelong expand their ground to 50k and play all 11 home games there and finals, that way their away games in Melbourne become genuine away games.
Plenty of room down the far end for another Stand to bump it up.

I'd be more than happy for a team like Geelong to be able to play their finals at home. That's what we want, a truly national competition.
 

doppleganger

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so 22 home games and 4 interstate games? haha come on, how can a Collingwood supporter say anyone has a leg up.
Each team plays 11 away games. In 2010 there were 10 Vic teams and six non-vic teams.

When ALL of the vic teams request a HOME game against Collingwood, of course a higher proportion of away games will be in Vic.

But in 2010, all the strong teams were Victorian - Pies, Geel, StK, WB - were the top4, Pies played against all three twice...what a leg up.

Yet your stance is it would have been much harder to travel and play a rabble like Brisbane...

Speaking of having an advantage over the competition, Collingwood played their final 7 home and away games at the MCG in 2010.
Well you will normally expect to play your home games at home. So that accounts for 3 or 4 of those games, depending on how earlier fixture fell...unsurprisingly the Pies were due 4 home games from their last 7 that year.

When there are 7 clubs who play ‘home’ games at the G, it ain’t surprising you will play away games at the G too, especially with the AFL wanting to fixture big blockbusters at the G in the run to finals.

So yeah we were fixtured at the G from R16 onwards, but our previous home game at the G was R9!

Why do people think playing an away game against Hawthorn at the G is the easier option than playing a wooden spoon battler interstate?
 

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frggr

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Travel is not the issue - i'm talking about Home ground advantage - this is enjoyed by the interstate teams and rightly so due to the fact that nearly half of their games are played on the road in a hostile environment playing against a team which does have a a home ground advantage .

The Melbourne based clubs have all lost their home ground advantage once ground rationalisation happened - turning their home ground into a Neutral environment apart from when they play an interstate based club.

Geelong still has a real home ground advantage through the season but also has the advantage of playing games on neutral grounds against the other Melbourne based teams.

Kardinia Park is a a fortress - since full ground rationalisation was completed in 2006 Geelong have played 106 games at the venue - out of that they have only lost 13 games - close to a 90% winning record. Combine this with the number of games they play on neutral venues this gives them a huge advantage over the rest of the competition. This compromises the integrity of the game.
So why do Sydney win there often if it's such a fortress?

Is a Richmond "home" final they didn't earn also a "fortress" atmosphere? What aboht Collingwood in a similar situation?
 

josewales

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So why do Sydney win there often if it's such a fortress?

Is a Richmond "home" final they didn't earn also a "fortress" atmosphere? What aboht Collingwood in a similar situation?
Well my mistake - how dare I classify it as a fortress when you have only won 90% of your games there since 2006 - I should withdraw that description and wait until your record is 100% before using it again.
 

frggr

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Well my mistake - how dare I classify it as a fortress when you have only won 90% of your games there since 2006 - I should withdraw that description and wait until your record is 100% before using it again.
A 90% winning record at our home ground in a period when we were one of the most dominant teams? How surprising.

Here's a thought - maybe your team shouldn't be such s**t trucks? It seems to work for the Swans. Maybe try some new tactics?

Irrespective of the 'fortress' tag, the team have played well enough to earn the right to play there.
 

sorted

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Kardinia Park is a a fortress - since full ground rationalisation was completed in 2006 Geelong have played 106 games at the venue - out of that they have only lost 13 games - close to a 90% winning record. Combine this with the number of games they play on neutral venues this gives them a huge advantage over the rest of the competition. This compromises the integrity of the game.
You've got it the wrong way round. Geelong don't win games at Kardinia Park because it's a fortress. It's termed a fortress because we win a lot of games there. Firstly we have a good winning record at most grounds since 2006. Then we tend to play lower ranking teams at our home ground which accentuates the win/loss ratio.

What you call 'neutral venues' are actually opposition home grounds. Richmond, Collingwood and Melbourne play much more regularly at the MCG than other clubs, and have as much home advantage as Geelong at their home ground.

The integrity of the game comment is laughable. There's no integrity in the AFL. The draw is rigged so that revenue is maximised eg Collingwood always play Essendon twice, Geelong play Hawthorn twice. At the end of the rigged, uneven season a team getting some advantage for finishing higher on the ladder, by getting a finals game at their home ground is one of the few elements of integrity in the game.
 

doppleganger

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What you call 'neutral venues' are actually opposition home grounds. Richmond, Collingwood and Melbourne play much more regularly at the MCG than other clubs, and have as much home advantage as Geelong at their home ground.
What absolute nonsense.

Home ground advantage is supposedly based on ground familiarity, having overwhelming crowd support, and the other team having no crowd support, being unfamiliar with the ground.

Travel was not even an issue in VFL, yet Collingwood had a massive home ground advantage at VicPark against all other teams.

Even now, Hawthorn actually travel for their Tassie home games, yet those games are considered by many as ‘home’ games...so much for travel being a disadvantage (only a disadvantage if you are listed as the away team it seems = bulls**t).

Geelong play 5 games at the G, more than North and Hawks have in Tassie, so more than enough to be familiar with the ground. They also get decent crowd support.

But flip it, Geelong have 9 games at CatPark...in a stadium that is 95% full of Geelong fans, against an opponent who only play there once. And most importantly Geelong actually train at CatPark!! How many other clubs get to train on the ground they play at anymore??

It is the biggest advantage in the league...9 games with a FULL home advantage, but then they get 7 games in Melbourne with none of the disadvantage faced by non-vic teams...talk about a leg up!!
 

smasha

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I believe if their ladder position qualifies for a home final, then they should have it.

I do not see it as an unfair advantage at all. I note the Tigers play their last seven games at the G. Is that an unfair advantage leading into the finals. Certainly it is no more nor less than any advantage the Cats get from a home final.

I think the whining about fairness or otherwise comes from fans of some big Melbourne Clubs, who have barely played there for 20 years or more. To those folk I say their Clubs enjoy playing Cat home games at the G.
Finally Richmond back at the G.
 

Bazzar

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Maybe the Cats can ask Steve Hocking for a two goal head start if they have to play a home state final away from GMHBA, they're so hard done by they deserve it.
 

mcgarnacle

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What absolute nonsense.

Home ground advantage is supposedly based on ground familiarity, having overwhelming crowd support, and the other team having no crowd support, being unfamiliar with the ground.

Travel was not even an issue in VFL, yet Collingwood had a massive home ground advantage at VicPark against all other teams.

Even now, Hawthorn actually travel for their Tassie home games, yet those games are considered by many as ‘home’ games...so much for travel being a disadvantage (only a disadvantage if you are listed as the away team it seems = bulls**t).

Geelong play 5 games at the G, more than North and Hawks have in Tassie, so more than enough to be familiar with the ground. They also get decent crowd support.

But flip it, Geelong have 9 games at CatPark...in a stadium that is 95% full of Geelong fans, against an opponent who only play there once. And most importantly Geelong actually train at CatPark!! How many other clubs get to train on the ground they play at anymore??

It is the biggest advantage in the league...9 games with a FULL home advantage, but then they get 7 games in Melbourne with none of the disadvantage faced by non-vic teams...talk about a leg up!!
good on them. not Geelong's fault metro clubs gave up their venues or not doing something over the decades to maintain and retain them. sydney have tended to play well down there. why collingwood fans are so concerned is hilarious as they never have to play down there anyway. not only getting worked up about something that can't be controlled, getting worked up about something that doesn't and will never happen!

ground rationalisation has been great for intertstate clubs too. while metro clubs have to travel to WA/SA/SCG and play in front hostile overwhelmingly large pro-home team supporters, intertstate clubs get to play at a 1/3 full MCG or half full Docklands. hardly intimidating. travel? pfft. this can be managed now.
 

doppleganger

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why collingwood fans are so concerned is hilarious as they never have to play down there anyway. not only getting worked up about something that can't be controlled, getting worked up about something that doesn't and will never happen!
I liked the suburban grounds.
It was great seeing Collingwood legend D.Brereton play for the mighty magpies at the Cattery in the 90s.

ground rationalisation has been great for intertstate clubs too. while metro clubs have to travel to WA/SA/SCG and play in front hostile overwhelmingly large pro-home team supporters, intertstate clubs get to play at a 1/3 full MCG or half full Docklands. hardly intimidating. travel? pfft. this can be managed now.
Yep. Melbourne clubs absolutely shafted by ground rationalisation, we lost our home grounds.

Much bigger advantage playing teams at VicPark in front of 25K Collingwood ferals right on top of the play.

A game at half empty Marvel where the opposition often plays there as much is not a home advantage.

Finals have always been at the league determined biggest stadium, why Sydney would often play at Olympic instead of their home ground.

All the talk of ‘earning’ home finals is just nonsense.
 

mcgarnacle

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I liked the suburban grounds.
It was great seeing Collingwood legend D.Brereton play for the mighty magpies at the Cattery in the 90s.


Yep. Melbourne clubs absolutely shafted by ground rationalisation, we lost our home grounds.

Much bigger advantage playing teams at VicPark in front of 25K Collingwood ferals right on top of the play.

A game at half empty Marvel where the opposition often plays there as much is not a home advantage.

Finals have always been at the league determined biggest stadium, why Sydney would often play at Olympic instead of their home ground.

All the talk of ‘earning’ home finals is just nonsense.
the AFL realised their folly when fewer Swans supporters began turning up to finals at Olympic Park than a regular season match at the SCG. bigger isn't always better and i'm glad olympic park has been wiped as a swans venue.
 

Duskfire

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Does that mean when Gold Coast eventually finish high enough they should play their finals at the Gabba? Much bigger capacity then Metricon.
 

romeohwho

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Well my mistake - how dare I classify it as a fortress when you have only won 90% of your games there since 2006 - I should withdraw that description and wait until your record is 100% before using it again.
The pies play 14 games at the G this year. Only 5 of those games are against teams that ‘share’ it with you. The other games are against interstate, marvel teams or Geelong.
The shared games you are neither advantaged or disadvantaged- you are a 50-50 chance. The other 9 games you have an advantage. ( just like the cats have 9 home games). You play your usual 5 games interstate. (Geelong and most others play 6 every year). The finals are played on your home ground which means against 13 other clubs you are advantaged (and 4 others it’s neutral).So when you actually break it down -pies are doing quite ok. In fact more than ok, and better off than Geelong.
Pies welcome to play down at K.Park anytime you like of course.
 
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