Play Nice Geelong home final at GHMBA Stadium, is this an unfair advantage?

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tigerdan

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When are people going to reluctantly accept that the AFL is about maximising $$ while maintining a facade of fairness?

The draw is all about maximising $$
Propping up GWS and Gold Coast is all about (long term) maximising $$ by eating into RL.
Finals scheduling is all about $$

We all know this. Sometimes you win out of it, sometimes you lose. But don't expect the AFL to let fairness get in their way.

Back in the day there was a policy that MCG tenants played finals at VFL park. It did not last forever, but it was there for a while. The 95 prelim between Geelong and Richmond was at Waverley. Maybe the '17 QF would have been there too.

Stupidly the docklands was built too small to host huge crowds and KP is smaller still.

I wonder how cats fans would feel if it was Geelong v Richmond at a larger sized Docklands. Honestly, taking the partisan side out of it, I think we all agree that the Docklands was a fu** up because they built it too small.
 

josewales

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The pies play 14 games at the G this year. Only 5 of those games are against teams that ‘share’ it with you. The other games are against interstate, marvel teams or Geelong.
The shared games you are neither advantaged or disadvantaged- you are a 50-50 chance. The other 9 games you have an advantage. ( just like the cats have 9 home games). You play your usual 5 games interstate. (Geelong and most others play 6 every year). The finals are played on your home ground which means against 13 other clubs you are advantaged (and 4 others it’s neutral).So when you actually break it down -pies are doing quite ok. In fact more than ok, and better off than Geelong.
Pies welcome to play down at K.Park anytime you like of course.
Yeah,sure.

Not much point in taking this any further -

Seems like the only people who fail to acknowledge the advantage that Geelong have at KP are Geelong supporters - either in denial or trying to hide the fact so as to give them the high ground when whinging because they do not get to play finals there.

The conniving Wheatley and Scott, two campaigners who tried to use the "grand final being played at the MCG" is a blight on "the integrity of the game" BS. to once again try to resurrect this debate - knowing full well that issue is done and dusted for the next 40 years - but a good way to try and build some empathy from the interstaters (noticed there is a Sydney supporter in your corner in this thread lol )

And that's what really P--- me off - because they are both acutely aware of the situation, the huge advantage they already have - but like Oliver Twist are going to the AFL "Please Sir I want some more'

A home ground advantage is something all good clubs try to exploit, the interstate clubs deservedly have it - fair compensation for the extra travel they have to endure - but for the Melbourne based clubs there is only one who holds that advantage and it is Geelong - and they exploit it better than anyone else in the comp

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romeohwho

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Yeah,sure.

Not much point in taking this any further -

Seems like the only people who fail to acknowledge the advantage that Geelong have at KP are Geelong supporters - either in denial or trying to hide the fact so as to give them the high ground when whinging because they do not get to play finals there.

The conniving Wheatley and Scott, two campaigners who tried to use the "grand final being played at the MCG" is a blight on "the integrity of the game" BS. to once again try to resurrect this debate - knowing full well that issue is done and dusted for the next 40 years - but a good way to try and build some empathy from the interstaters (noticed there is a Sydney supporter in your corner in this thread lol )

And that's what really P--- me off - because they are both acutely aware of the situation, the huge advantage they already have - but like Oliver Twist are going to the AFL "Please Sir I want some more'

A home ground advantage is something all good clubs try to exploit, the interstate clubs deservedly have it - fair compensation for the extra travel they have to endure - but for the Melbourne based clubs there is only one who holds that advantage and it is Geelong - and they exploit it better than anyone else in the comp

. View attachment 703710
Lol. I’ve explained it to you quite clearly using basic facts. You can’t get it? Your problem.
 

Boxhead_31

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Yeah,sure.

Not much point in taking this any further -

Seems like the only people who fail to acknowledge the advantage that Geelong have at KP are Geelong supporters - either in denial or trying to hide the fact so as to give them the high ground when whinging because they do not get to play finals there.

The conniving Wheatley and Scott, two campaigners who tried to use the "grand final being played at the MCG" is a blight on "the integrity of the game" BS. to once again try to resurrect this debate - knowing full well that issue is done and dusted for the next 40 years - but a good way to try and build some empathy from the interstaters (noticed there is a Sydney supporter in your corner in this thread lol )

And that's what really P--- me off - because they are both acutely aware of the situation, the huge advantage they already have - but like Oliver Twist are going to the AFL "Please Sir I want some more'

A home ground advantage is something all good clubs try to exploit, the interstate clubs deservedly have it - fair compensation for the extra travel they have to endure - but for the Melbourne based clubs there is only one who holds that advantage and it is Geelong - and they exploit it better than anyone else in the comp

. View attachment 703710
You do realise that Geelong is not Melbourne based, don't you?
 

Obeanie1

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Yeah,sure.

Not much point in taking this any further -

Seems like the only people who fail to acknowledge the advantage that Geelong have at KP are Geelong supporters - either in denial or trying to hide the fact so as to give them the high ground when whinging because they do not get to play finals there.

The conniving Wheatley and Scott, two campaigners who tried to use the "grand final being played at the MCG" is a blight on "the integrity of the game" BS. to once again try to resurrect this debate - knowing full well that issue is done and dusted for the next 40 years - but a good way to try and build some empathy from the interstaters (noticed there is a Sydney supporter in your corner in this thread lol )

And that's what really P--- me off - because they are both acutely aware of the situation, the huge advantage they already have - but like Oliver Twist are going to the AFL "Please Sir I want some more'

A home ground advantage is something all good clubs try to exploit, the interstate clubs deservedly have it - fair compensation for the extra travel they have to endure - but for the Melbourne based clubs there is only one who holds that advantage and it is Geelong - and they exploit it better than anyone else in the comp

. View attachment 703710
And they want more as you pointed out.

Carolyn Wilson's article is spot on. Politics and funding games at play here as well.
 

JohnZ

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Carolyn Wilson's article is spot on.
Nah it's not. She's good at what she does, advocating for the plight of the RFC. If the suburb of Richmond was it's own city 100km from Melbourne and it had it's own 35,000 capacity stadium, I bet Caroline would be advocating for Geelong's current position instead (ie Home Finals, 11 home games etc.)
 

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And_ROOS

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I hope Geelong keep this 2 game buffer late into the season so they can rest players a few weeks out from finals because the AFL admins hated when clubs used to do that. Where are the advantages for finishing top anymore? No home ground advantage for Geelong. Finish 1st, and play against 4th at their home ground if they are a Victorian club. All teams get the weeks break leading in.

Caros argument would be correct but for the fact the AFL didn't force GWS to play 40 mins down the road at the SCG in their Prelim vs the Doggies. Bigger stadium, more seats, lots of potential revenue missed. And the SCG is closer for GWS than the MCG is for Geelong, GMHBA has more seats than Spotless Stadium.

More of the AFL having rules for some and not for others. And people wonder why Geelong supporters have no time for the AFL.
 

sorted

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What absolute nonsense.

Home ground advantage is supposedly based on ground familiarity, having overwhelming crowd support, and the other team having no crowd support, being unfamiliar with the ground.

Travel was not even an issue in VFL, yet Collingwood had a massive home ground advantage at VicPark against all other teams.

Even now, Hawthorn actually travel for their Tassie home games, yet those games are considered by many as ‘home’ games...so much for travel being a disadvantage (only a disadvantage if you are listed as the away team it seems = bulls**t).

Geelong play 5 games at the G, more than North and Hawks have in Tassie, so more than enough to be familiar with the ground. They also get decent crowd support.

But flip it, Geelong have 9 games at CatPark...in a stadium that is 95% full of Geelong fans, against an opponent who only play there once. And most importantly Geelong actually train at CatPark!! How many other clubs get to train on the ground they play at anymore??

It is the biggest advantage in the league...9 games with a FULL home advantage, but then they get 7 games in Melbourne with none of the disadvantage faced by non-vic teams...talk about a leg up!!
I'm not sure what you are suggesting. Are you saying that Geelong should be made to play home games away from Kardinia Park because they have an advantage from it?

The issue only comes up during finals. There's a well accepted principle that teams finishing higher on the ladder should gain some advantage for that during finals. It's one of the few elements of integrity in AFL. Yet in the 2017 season Geelong earned the right to a home final against Richmond but the game was staged at the MCG. It disadvantaged Geelong as the MCG is Richmond's home ground and they have greater supporter base. It very much turned into a Richmond home final.

I read Caroline Wilson's bogus arguments. Apparently accommodating the maximum number of fans takes precedence over fairness, but except when it's an interstate side. So if GWS drew Richmond in finals the game should be held in front of 14,000 people at Showgrounds not switched to the MCG.
 

Ron The Bear

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I can't wait for it to get to September again and a Melbourne team (probably Richmond) get gifted a home final when they don't even deserve it, let alone the 7 homes they get in a row at the G. This thread is just crazy. Should be shut down. Every team gets their advantages and disadvantages ground wise. Deal with it.
Knock it off, goddammit. We're 16 rounds in and have had 6 games at the MCG - with 3 of those against co-tenants. Plus Essendon, who've played there 7 times.
 

saints_333

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Knock it off, goddammit. We're 16 rounds in and have had 6 games at the MCG - with 3 of those against co-tenants. Plus Essendon, who've played there 7 times.
yeah but there's this little thing called momentum and to have all your games at your home games leading into the finals without having to travel at all, well you couldn't get any better.
 

Obeanie1

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I hope Geelong keep this 2 game buffer late into the season so they can rest players a few weeks out from finals because the AFL admins hated when clubs used to do that. Where are the advantages for finishing top anymore? No home ground advantage for Geelong. Finish 1st, and play against 4th at their home ground if they are a Victorian club. All teams get the weeks break leading in.

Caros argument would be correct but for the fact the AFL didn't force GWS to play 40 mins down the road at the SCG in their Prelim vs the Doggies. Bigger stadium, more seats, lots of potential revenue missed. And the SCG is closer for GWS than the MCG is for Geelong, GMHBA has more seats than Spotless Stadium.

More of the AFL having rules for some and not for others. And people wonder why Geelong supporters have no time for the AFL.
Does GWS play any home games at the SCG?

Does GWS pull huge crowds?

Still waiting for anyone to provide an example, any example, where Geelong is at a disadvantage with fixtures other than finals.

The AFL fixtures are not fair and every side should shoulder some of the load at some point. Not rules for some and not for others.
 

doppleganger

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I'm not sure what you are suggesting. Are you saying that Geelong should be made to play home games away from Kardinia Park because they have an advantage from it?
Geelong have the biggest advantage in the league.

9 games with a genuine Home Avantage, 6-7 neutral games and only six with any distinct disadvantage.

The issue only comes up during finals. There's a well accepted principle that teams finishing higher on the ladder should gain some advantage for that during finals. It's one of the few elements of integrity in AFL.
This is a myth.

Finals always played at most suitable venue available, which for the majority of games is the MCG.

The AFL changed rules to make most appropriate available venue in the State of the higher ranked team, as makes sense that majority of fans interested in the game will come from that State.

The myth being that people have decided that teams now ‘earn’ and are entitled to a ‘home’ final.

The reward for finishing 1st is the ‘easiest’ final (against 4th) and a double chance...that is what the minor premier has earned.

If WC finish minor premier and Freo happen to finish 4th, stiff s**t.

I read Caroline Wilson's bogus arguments. Apparently accommodating the maximum number of fans takes precedence over fairness, but except when it's an interstate side.
The whole point is that finals have always been about making extra money for the league, that is why they were created in the first place!!
 

Rich01

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If Geelong had have built the redevelopment of Kardinia Park as proposed to hold 40k spectators, there shouldn’t even be a discussion on KP being a finals venue.

Unfortunately, those in power thought it better to reduce proposed capacity, hence the continual debate.
 

p5ych00n5

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yeah but there's this little thing called momentum and to have all your games at your home games leading into the finals without having to travel at all, well you couldn't get any better.
Fair point, but say Richmond had only won 3 games thus far, the momentum (if they say win all 7) would be a moot point
 

ConcreteWaters

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Geelong are going to find themselves playing a 'home' qualifying final against the Pies at the MCG in week 1. Absolute travesty if it happens and another MCG tenant gets an unearned home final.
 

And_ROOS

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Does GWS play any home games at the SCG?

Does GWS pull huge crowds?

Still waiting for anyone to provide an example, any example, where Geelong is at a disadvantage with fixtures other than finals.

The AFL fixtures are not fair and every side should shoulder some of the load at some point. Not rules for some and not for others.
How would you know what crowd that Prelim would have pulled when the AFL made the right call and let GWS rightfully play the game at their home ground.

Also Geelong don't want MCG matches. Every year they ask for ALL games to be played in Geelong.

And you mean fixture disadvantages like where Geelong have to play home matches at the MCG against MCG tenants? Or do you mean previous years where we had to play home games at Etihad Stadium due to a bad contract by the AFL?
 

Obeanie1

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How would you know what crowd that Prelim would have pulled when the AFL made the right call and let GWS rightfully play the game at their home ground.

Also Geelong don't want MCG matches. Every year they ask for ALL games to be played in Geelong.

And you mean fixture disadvantages like where Geelong have to play home matches at the MCG against MCG tenants? Or do you mean previous years where we had to play home games at Etihad Stadium due to a bad contract by the AFL?
So Geeling dont ask for two bockbuster home games to be played at the MCG to turn a huge profit?

They are forced to by the AFL?

If that is true then ok that is an example.

Any links or quotes from the club supporting that?

Seems that 9 at home and 2 blockbusters at the MCG is the Cats wish!


Geelong Cats


What they'll want: After finally being granted its wish of nine home matches at GMHBA Stadium last year, hitting that magic number will again be Geelong's main fixture priority in 2019. The Cats will ask for their other two home games to be played at the MCG, rather than at Marvel Stadium. Geelong can lock in another Easter Monday blockbuster against Hawthorn, which will fall in round five next season, while it will again meet Essendon at the MCG in its annual 'Country Game'.


From 2018, it is expected Simonds Stadium would be in line for the club’s long-held desire for nine matches.
 
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