Play Nice Geelong home final at GHMBA Stadium, is this an unfair advantage?

parano1a

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And you mean fixture disadvantages like where Geelong have to play home matches at the MCG against MCG tenants?
Big deal, almost every Victorian club is in this situation. Collingwood played a home game against North Melbourne at Marvel, same thing.
 

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doppleganger

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Big deal, almost every Victorian club is in this situation. Collingwood played a home game against North Melbourne at Marvel, same thing.
Yep.

Ever since the introduction of VFL Park (Waverley) back in the 70s, ALL vic teams (including Geelong) gave up some home games to instead play them at the league stadium.

None of the MCG tenants get all their home games at the G, ‘tis why Melbourne sell games to the NT, Hawks to Tassie, and Tigers used to play in Far NQLD.

Pies always get a couple of home games at Etihad.

The concept of a home game for Melbourne clubs is almost redundant.
 

pivotal

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Surely there's a sensible middle ground here: Geelong play "home" finals against Victorian sides at MCG and against non-Vic sides at Kardinia Park. This common sense approach gives a nod to the equity issue while also acknowledging the structure and history of the competition.

Let's not be equalisation purists here. We have to recognise that our competition is unique in that (1) the majority of the clubs are located within - or just beyond - a single major city, and (2) this city is home to the spiritual home of the sport - the MCG, which also happens to be the sport's largest venue and the host venue of the Grand Final every year. Big finals between Vic clubs have always been played at the big Melbourne venues (MCG, Waverley, and occasionally Docklands). In the days of suburban grounds, this was all part of what set finals apart from home and away rounds. They didn't move finals to suburban grounds (Princes Park, Vic Park, etc.) because teams deserved home ground advantage.
 

yodellinhank

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If Geelong had have built the redevelopment of Kardinia Park as proposed to hold 40k spectators, there shouldn’t even be a discussion on KP being a finals venue.

Unfortunately, those in power thought it better to reduce proposed capacity, hence the continual debate.
There's other issues around Geelong's unsuitability. Even if you had 60k capacity, you have to get people to and from the game. Geelong has a lack of infrastructure in this regard. Any match would pretty much have to be a day game, which with finals fixturing only really works if the cats finish 5th or 6th.
 

Rich01

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There's other issues around Geelong's unsuitability. Even if you had 60k capacity, you have to get people to and from the game. Geelong has a lack of infrastructure in this regard. Any match would pretty much have to be a day game, which with finals fixturing only really works if the cats finish 5th or 6th.
There was no problem getting close to 50k people to Kardinia Park in the 50s. Reckon the infrastructures improved over the last 60 years.
 

_RT_

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Staggers me how whoever posted that couldn't understand the context. Geelong wants all their home games in Geelong. But knows the AFL won't do that, so next best is 9 games at Geelong and 2 MCG matches against big drawing teams.
Cats fans have insisted that Geelong doesn't want home games at MCG and doesn't request them, yet when shown that the club does you guys put out but but but the AFL won't let us so we make do with next best.
 

Mikevk123

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No not at all. What Geelong has to do though is upgrade their stadium to 40-50 thousand. They got burned hard in 2017 and will continue to be if they don’t make the upgrades.
 

AWOL

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If Geelong's business model is that only 30k fans (the same ageing ones all the time) can see Geelong play at home, supporters will go elsewhere, either to other clubs or other leagues. The other clubs will continue to grow their support while Geelong stagnates, shrinks then eventually disappears in a puff of irrelevance.
I’m a 41yo Geelong supporter (general admin member) and have never been locked out of a game in Geelong. I turn up, scan my card and wander in. Got tickets to the freo final without issue. All these people that carry on about being locked out of Geelong have clearly not been down there to a game before.
 

And_ROOS

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Cats fans have insisted that Geelong doesn't want home games at MCG and doesn't request them, yet when shown that the club does you guys put out but but but the AFL won't let us so we make do with next best.
You realise that the club knows they won't ever get every home game at GMHBA until the stadium seating hits at least 40k, right?

So, if you know you aren't going to get what you want, because the AFL have made it abundantly clear that they won't give us all our games at home after repeatedly asking, why would Geelong request all home games at Geelong when the AFL has a clear stance on the matter?

Seems pointless. So they request the thing likely to get approved, rather than wasting everyones time and requesting the thing that will get denied.

And when GMHBA gets to 40k seats, it will be requested again.

Do you make frivolous requests all the time?
 

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_RT_

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You realise that the club knows they won't ever get every home game at GMHBA until the stadium seating hits at least 40k, right?

So, if you know you aren't going to get what you want, because the AFL have made it abundantly clear that they won't give us all our games at home after repeatedly asking, why would Geelong request all home games at Geelong when the AFL has a clear stance on the matter?

Seems pointless. So they request the thing likely to get approved, rather than wasting everyones time and requesting the thing that will get denied.

And when GMHBA gets to 40k seats, it will be requested again.

Do you make frivolous requests all the time?
The point is Cats fans repeatedly claim that Geelong only requests all 11 games at their ground and doesn't request them to be played anywhere else when this is clearly not correct.

As much as Geelong wants to have all their games down at Geelong, they simply won't get even when capacity gets to 40k because the AFL is about maximising attendances and having teams like Richmond Collingwood Hawthorn(although they should) & Essendon drawn to play down there just doesn't make sense.

I had Cats fans earlier in the thread say stuff opposition fans it's our home game, but lets flip it around and imagine if the same sort of seating arrangements were in place at the MCG/Marvel as they are at Geelong where only a small portion of seating was available for you guys to attend.

No doubt you guys would be complaining about how it's not fair that you can't attend your teams game even though it's being played in Victoria. WA/SA teams can get away with having majority of their seats sold to their own fans because it's not like 25-30k supporters are going to travel across each week for a game, but in Victoria the fans of all 10 clubs should have equal opportunity to attend as many games as they can.

If GMHBA was a 45-50k seat stadium there would be no problem, you guys could have your 30-35k reserved seats for members and it would still give up to 20k seats for walk ups/opposition fans to attend. That way you could have all 11 games down there, the town would benefit from visitors coming in every other week and Geelong would still get access to 5-6 games in Melbourne as well. Everybody wins, but I doubt many Cats fans would agree with that.
 

Boxhead_31

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The point is Cats fans repeatedly claim that Geelong only requests all 11 games at their ground and doesn't request them to be played anywhere else when this is clearly not correct.

As much as Geelong wants to have all their games down at Geelong, they simply won't get even when capacity gets to 40k because the AFL is about maximising attendances and having teams like Richmond Collingwood Hawthorn(although they should) & Essendon drawn to play down there just doesn't make sense.

I had Cats fans earlier in the thread say stuff opposition fans it's our home game, but lets flip it around and imagine if the same sort of seating arrangements were in place at the MCG/Marvel as they are at Geelong where only a small portion of seating was available for you guys to attend.

No doubt you guys would be complaining about how it's not fair that you can't attend your teams game even though it's being played in Victoria. WA/SA teams can get away with having majority of their seats sold to their own fans because it's not like 25-30k supporters are going to travel across each week for a game, but in Victoria the fans of all 10 clubs should have equal opportunity to attend as many games as they can.

If GMHBA was a 45-50k seat stadium there would be no problem, you guys could have your 30-35k reserved seats for members and it would still give up to 20k seats for walk ups/opposition fans to attend. That way you could have all 11 games down there, the town would benefit from visitors coming in every other week and Geelong would still get access to 5-6 games in Melbourne as well. Everybody wins, but I doubt many Cats fans would agree with that.
So when the City end gets done after 2020 world Cup and the capacity goes to 40-45k you'll have no issue with finals being played in Geelong?
 

And_ROOS

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The point is Cats fans repeatedly claim that Geelong only requests all 11 games at their ground and doesn't request them to be played anywhere else when this is clearly not correct.
The point is that Geelong ask the AFL each year to have all home games in Geelong, get told no to 11 home games, so then request 9+ 2 or whatever we can in that year.

Thats fact. Geelong are on the record for that. When the fixtures get released each year, the Geelong president usually comes out with a comment like "well we wanted all games in Geelong, but the AFL said no dice so we will play Someone and Someone else at the MCG."

Happens. Every. Year.

How hard is it for you to understand how this works?
TL;dr Geelong ask, told no, ask for something else.

As much as Geelong wants to have all their games down at Geelong, they simply won't get even when capacity gets to 40k because the AFL is about maximising attendances and having teams like Richmond Collingwood Hawthorn(although they should) & Essendon drawn to play down there just doesn't make sense.
Good on the AFL. Geelong is all about winning and revenue, and we do better at both having matches at GMHBA. So the AFL can basically fu** right off with whatever they want to be honest. When capacity hits 40k, the AFL will want a good excuse for not letting us play more matches in Geelong because not having matches there will cost us potential wins and profits.

I had Cats fans earlier in the thread say stuff opposition fans it's our home game, but lets flip it around and imagine if the same sort of seating arrangements were in place at the MCG/Marvel as they are at Geelong where only a small portion of seating was available for you guys to attend.

No doubt you guys would be complaining about how it's not fair that you can't attend your teams game even though it's being played in Victoria. WA/SA teams can get away with having majority of their seats sold to their own fans because it's not like 25-30k supporters are going to travel across each week for a game, but in Victoria the fans of all 10 clubs should have equal opportunity to attend as many games as they can.

If GMHBA was a 45-50k seat stadium there would be no problem, you guys could have your 30-35k reserved seats for members and it would still give up to 20k seats for walk ups/opposition fans to attend. That way you could have all 11 games down there, the town would benefit from visitors coming in every other week and Geelong would still get access to 5-6 games in Melbourne as well. Everybody wins, but I doubt many Cats fans would agree with that.
Flip it around? Like when the AFL fixture Geelongs finals in the absolute worst timeslot for people to get from Geelong to the MCG? So Geelomg finish 2nd, and get to play Richmond at their home ground, and then the match is played at a s**t time so no where near enough Geelong fans could attend. So basically instead of putting the match on the Saturday afternoon Richmond basically got a home final despite not actually earning one in 2017.

How is that any different to the amount of Tigers fans that would have missed out if the game was played in Geelong exactly?
 

_RT_

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Flip it around? Like when the AFL fixture Geelongs finals in the absolute worst timeslot for people to get from Geelong to the MCG? So Geelomg finish 2nd, and get to play Richmond at their home ground, and then the match is played at a s**t time so no where near enough Geelong fans could attend. So basically instead of putting the match on the Saturday afternoon Richmond basically got a home final despite not actually earning one in 2017.

How is that any different to the amount of Tigers fans that would have missed out if the game was played in Geelong exactly?
Ah that old excuse of the poor time slot meant our fans couldn't go. I know plenty of Tigers fans who live past Geelong who got to the MCG well before the bounce, I live halfway to Geelong myself and had to travel an hour home from work, then another hour back to the MCG and still made it nearly an hour before the bounce despite finishing work at 4pm.

Our club and our fans really did do a number on you guys back in 2017 didn't we?
The point is that Geelong ask the AFL each year to have all home games in Geelong, get told no to 11 home games, so then request 9+ 2 or whatever we can in that year.

Thats fact. Geelong are on the record for that. When the fixtures get released each year, the Geelong president usually comes out with a comment like "well we wanted all games in Geelong, but the AFL said no dice so we will play Someone and Someone else at the MCG."

Happens. Every. Year.

How hard is it for you to understand how this works?
TL;dr Geelong ask, told no, ask for something else.
The point is other clubs also make requests but not many say if you can't give us this we'll happily take option b.


Good on the AFL. Geelong is all about winning and revenue, and we do better at both having matches at GMHBA. So the AFL can basically fu** right off with whatever they want to be honest. When capacity hits 40k, the AFL will want a good excuse for not letting us play more matches in Geelong because not having matches there will cost us potential wins and profits.
They have a perfectly valid excuse and its the same one they have now, maximise opportunity for as mamy fans as possible to attend games.

If Geelong want to act like an interstate club then the AFL should treat them like one. 11 games at GMHBA, 2-3 away games in Melbourne at Marvel, 1-2 games at MCG & the rest played interstate. Then watch the Cats whinge about not getting enough opportunity to play on the MCG.



Flip it around? Like when the AFL fixture Geelongs finals in the absolute worst timeslot for people to get from Geelong to the MCG? So Geelomg finish 2nd, and get to play Richmond at their home ground, and then the match is played at a s**t time so no where near enough Geelong fans could attend. So basically instead of putting the match on the Saturday afternoon Richmond basically got a home final despite not actually earning one in 2017.

How is that any different to the amount of Tigers fans that would have missed out if the game was played in Geelong exactly?
I've read some soft excuses for not going to games but this takes the cake. That game started at 7.50 on a Friday night hardly a major obstacle for a 1 hour drive up the highway. Hell I travelled an hour from work to home then another hour back in and still made it in plenty if time.
 

getgaff

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I don't think it's an unfair advantage. If they've done the hard work in the season to finish with a home final than well played to them, especially if it's a home qualifying final and double chance guaranteed.

Don't see a "power" Vic club like Richmond, Collingwood, Essendon or Hawthorn (if they make it) being the team to play their but. Would work for a lesser Vic club or interstate team only.

A do or die final at the MCG would have to be at the MCG any day but I think.
 

doppleganger

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If Geelong want to act like an interstate club then the AFL should treat them like one. 11 games at GMHBA, 2-3 away games in Melbourne at Marvel, 1-2 games at MCG & the rest played interstate. Then watch the Cats whinge about not getting enough opportunity to play on the MCG.
This.

Melbourne based clubs should request home games against each other, and thus send Geelong interstate 7 or 8 times a season for away games if they want 11 home games at CatPark.

Let Geelong only play in Melbourne 3 or 4 times, majority being at Etihad, just like the other non-Melbourne based teams.
 

_RT_

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So Geeling dont ask for two bockbuster home games to be played at the MCG to turn a huge profit?

They are forced to by the AFL?

If that is true then ok that is an example.

Any links or quotes from the club supporting that?

Seems that 9 at home and 2 blockbusters at the MCG is the Cats wish!


Geelong Cats


What they'll want: After finally being granted its wish of nine home matches at GMHBA Stadium last year, hitting that magic number will again be Geelong's main fixture priority in 2019. The Cats will ask for their other two home games to be played at the MCG, rather than at Marvel Stadium. Geelong can lock in another Easter Monday blockbuster against Hawthorn, which will fall in round five next season, while it will again meet Essendon at the MCG in its annual 'Country Game'.


From 2018, it is expected Simonds Stadium would be in line for the club’s long-held desire for nine matches.
You should know better than to bring facts into this, Cats fans will go to their graves telling everyone that the club only ever requests 11 games at GMHBA and nothing else, even had one tell me they would arrange a phone call with Brian Cook to clarify that. Never mind the fact that Cook is quoted multiple times saying that the club is happy to have 2 home games at the MCG.



As an aside, can someone link me to the articles where Geelong fans were upset at hosting Sydney at the MCG in 2017 & 2016? Same goes with hosting Hawthorn in 2016( a game they won)? Port in 2013? Fremantle in 2012? Hawthorn & WCE in 2011? Seems they have only started to get upset since Richmond knocked them off in 2017.
 

Black Child

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This.

Melbourne based clubs should request home games against each other, and thus send Geelong interstate 7 or 8 times a season for away games if they want 11 home games at CatPark.

Let Geelong only play in Melbourne 3 or 4 times, majority being at Etihad, just like the other non-Melbourne based teams.
They should get one away game a year at the MCG like what North get if they get eleven games plus home finals at their training ground in West Footscray.
Send them interstate eight times a year like you said and stop letting them avoid Tasmania.
Two away games a year at Marvel too.

I suggest Cats fans would take this in a heartbeat over their current setup if given the option.

11 home games a year at Kardinia Park plus any home finals they earn.
8 away games interstate a year which would include away games in Tasmania.
2 away games a year at Marvel Stadium.
1 away game a year at the MCG.
 

Iago

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You should know better than to bring facts into this, Cats fans will go to their graves telling everyone that the club only ever requests 11 games at GMHBA and nothing else, even had one tell me they would arrange a phone call with Brian Cook to clarify that. Never mind the fact that Cook is quoted multiple times saying that the club is happy to have 2 home games at the MCG.



As an aside, can someone link me to the articles where Geelong fans were upset at hosting Sydney at the MCG in 2017 & 2016? Same goes with hosting Hawthorn in 2016( a game they won)? Port in 2013? Fremantle in 2012? Hawthorn & WCE in 2011? Seems they have only started to get upset since Richmond knocked them off in 2017.
About the same time Richmond whinged about having to travel to play an away game in Geelong?
 

_RT_

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About the same time Richmond whinged about having to travel to play an away game in Geelong?
Only reason Richmond questioned the game being played there was because of the 20,000+ fans who missed out on attending the game from both fan bases. From what I have been told by Cats fans Geelong don't give a stuff about either their fans or opposition fans, they just want to play their games at their small capacity ground regardless
 

Conan Troutman

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The point is Cats fans repeatedly claim that Geelong only requests all 11 games at their ground and doesn't request them to be played anywhere else when this is clearly not correct.

As much as Geelong wants to have all their games down at Geelong, they simply won't get even when capacity gets to 40k because the AFL is about maximising attendances and having teams like Richmond Collingwood Hawthorn(although they should) & Essendon drawn to play down there just doesn't make sense.

I had Cats fans earlier in the thread say stuff opposition fans it's our home game, but lets flip it around and imagine if the same sort of seating arrangements were in place at the MCG/Marvel as they are at Geelong where only a small portion of seating was available for you guys to attend.

No doubt you guys would be complaining about how it's not fair that you can't attend your teams game even though it's being played in Victoria. WA/SA teams can get away with having majority of their seats sold to their own fans because it's not like 25-30k supporters are going to travel across each week for a game, but in Victoria the fans of all 10 clubs should have equal opportunity to attend as many games as they can.

If GMHBA was a 45-50k seat stadium there would be no problem, you guys could have your 30-35k reserved seats for members and it would still give up to 20k seats for walk ups/opposition fans to attend. That way you could have all 11 games down there, the town would benefit from visitors coming in every other week and Geelong would still get access to 5-6 games in Melbourne as well. Everybody wins, but I doubt many Cats fans would agree with that.

"Geelong CEO Brian Cook told 3AW the Cats want to play every home game at their ground.
“Home teams should have a home venue,” Cook said before the clash with Richmond.
“This is the only competition I’m aware of in the world where home game status is taken off you to go to the home ground of the opposition because they get a bigger crowd.”
Cook said it would be “fantastic” to play all 11 home games there."
 

_RT_

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"Geelong CEO Brian Cook told 3AW the Cats want to play every home game at their ground.
“Home teams should have a home venue,” Cook said before the clash with Richmond.
“This is the only competition I’m aware of in the world where home game status is taken off you to go to the home ground of the opposition because they get a bigger crowd.”
Cook said it would be “fantastic” to play all 11 home games there."
In this article Cook talks about how Geelong requests 2 home games at the MCG as long as they are against 2 big drawing clubs. https://theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/powerhouse-geelong-still-only-a-breakeven-club/news-story/448ab97aa6a255450964ac221320d519
 
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