Autopsy Geelong loses to Demons by 25 points.

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Play it Sam

Cupcakes are muffins who believed in miracles
Jun 25, 2013
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Great way to finish the day, electricity black out in Waurn ponds. Stanley can go home now since surely he’s practicing goal kicking over at Deakin?
 

Footy Smarts

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Jun 19, 2006
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I'm feeling weirdly ok about today. Last year we played Melbourne at the same time and were awful. It was really hard to find any positives. The only changes we made from that day to the last 3 finals were:

Out - Fort, Ratugolea, Atkins, Steven
In - Taylor, Henderson, Stanley, Simpson

Basically it looked very close to our best 22 and we got miles better without major changes.

Today was a long, long way from our best team. Our forward line of missing players was clearly better than the one we put out there today. Melbourne are an improved team with their tails up. But I thought we really fought it out and were a couple of quality forwards away from giving them a real scare near the end.

Apart from Stewart most of our good players had stinkers but our youngsters showed something. Credit to Kolo on what I think was his best game for the club. Close looked right at home and Henry and Clark did some nice things playing in unsuited positions. Narkle showed glimpses of why he could still make it.

So a sh*t day but not that unsurprising given the team out there and at least we got something out of it. The to get closer to our best team in the park and start building momentum.
 

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cats_09

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Absolutely spot on. The worry is if we can see that, so can every AFL coach. Scott said last week they are trying to speed up the play but players having difficulty coming to terms with it. So obviously don’t have the skills to adapt especially with key personnel missing. Bit hard to kick up the guts when no one home.
Even in the third quarter, before Smith kicked his 2nd goal he was calling for someone to lead or present but with no-one doing so he decided to go for goal himself - it didn't look like that was his first intention but he felt he really had no option


It was interesting listening to the snip-its of Scott on Footy Classified from last week - after round 1, we were there #1 team for mark -> play on, while in recent years we've been #18 in that category, and not sure it really worked in our favour in round 1

Sounds like we don't want to go back to #18, but don't necessarily want to be #1 each week and instead it's about finding the balance between when to go go go and when we need to pull it back

2nd quarter today, Stewart takes the kick in from a behind & runs his full measure before kicking down the guts to Duncan. Duncan turns & goes without hesitation, but not being the quickest guy he didn't have the pace for a run & bounce, so he kicks long to I think Henry - we don't take the mark, Melbourne clear it and take the ball down the wing

So we clearly aren't opposed to going long, thru the guts and quick when opportunities present - but we've gotta get that last kick into the forward 50 right
 

Play it Sam

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Few things-

We are really missing Harry - rarely beaten, anchored the defensive structure and had good vision to see attacking outlets. Handy forward pinch hitting as well. Blitz seems a bit panicky without him.

Melbourne 22 is chock full of sub 26yo top 10 draft picks - we ain’t. They have also recruited really well with May and Lever and kept their top players (Gawn etc) who may have been tempted to walk with past underperformance. Good list management- good luck to them. Need success for their long suffering fans.

Contrast to our list is telling (scant top 20 picks in sub 26yo). Recruiting Cameron, Smith and Higgins is really a last throw of the dice, whilst we have Dangerwood, Selwood and Hawk. I get that, but it needs most of the best 22 to be fit and in form to work. We’ll know how we sit by about round 10-12.
All good-but stuff their long suffering fans, never in their self entitled seats.
Suffering through a Covid GF we can't even attend trumps those snow bunnies.
 

Play it Sam

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Even in the third quarter, before Smith kicked his 2nd goal he was calling for someone to lead or present but with no-one doing so he decided to go for goal himself - it didn't look like that was his first intention but he felt he really had no option


It was interesting listening to the snip-its of Scott on Footy Classified from last week - after round 1, we were there #1 team for mark -> play on, while in recent years we've been #18 in that category, and not sure it really worked in our favour in round 1

Sounds like we don't want to go back to #18, but don't necessarily want to be #1 each week and instead it's about finding the balance between when to go go go and when we need to pull it back

2nd quarter today, Stewart takes the kick in from a behind & runs his full measure before kicking down the guts to Duncan. Duncan turns & goes without hesitation, but not being the quickest guy he didn't have the pace for a run & bounce, so he kicks long to I think Henry - we don't take the mark, Melbourne clear it and take the ball down the wing

So we clearly aren't opposed to going long, thru the guts and quick when opportunities present - but we've gotta get that last kick into the forward 50 right
Pretty much you said it-kick to Henry. One spectacular participation (across CHB) then run in an outstanding goal and suddenly he's the great forward hope. Looked lost and unco when not outnumbered, poor sod. I once said to a group of our players, always remember today's newspaper, tomorrow's fish and chip paper.....(showing my age, but they got the gist)
 

geelong_crazy26

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Even in the third quarter, before Smith kicked his 2nd goal he was calling for someone to lead or present but with no-one doing so he decided to go for goal himself - it didn't look like that was his first intention but he felt he really had no option


It was interesting listening to the snip-its of Scott on Footy Classified from last week - after round 1, we were there #1 team for mark -> play on, while in recent years we've been #18 in that category, and not sure it really worked in our favour in round 1

Sounds like we don't want to go back to #18, but don't necessarily want to be #1 each week and instead it's about finding the balance between when to go go go and when we need to pull it back

2nd quarter today, Stewart takes the kick in from a behind & runs his full measure before kicking down the guts to Duncan. Duncan turns & goes without hesitation, but not being the quickest guy he didn't have the pace for a run & bounce, so he kicks long to I think Henry - we don't take the mark, Melbourne clear it and take the ball down the wing

So we clearly aren't opposed to going long, thru the guts and quick when opportunities present - but we've gotta get that last kick into the forward 50 right
didnt Actually see the game today but I told family and friends we would get done by 4-6 goals.. and we ended up losing by 25. Not shocked at all this happened, think it was coming from a mile away.

mrlbourne in peak form, we have barely left the station yet. Heaps of key playmakers out.

I feel like Melbourne’s equivalent today would have been Petracca and Oliver missing from the side. We have probably 4-6 instant seniors to come back into the side.

parfitt, Rohan, dangerfield, cameron, Higgins, simpson, ratugolea(most likely).

that is An extremely Different side if you fielded it next week. 1/3rd of a fielded side different to be exact.

need to get to the halfway mark being equal wind losses or slightly ahead.

win all our games at home is a must. Can’t drop any at skilled.

already 1 win at MCG which is a bonus.

will be 3-2 after next week, which is not too bad...

beat WCE at geelong and we are 4-2... that’s a decent return.

for me the next two weeks are huge, mostly the WCE game. Season shaping game for us
 
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Gogeelong

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-Danger
-Cameron
-Higgins
-Parfitt
-Rohan
-Simpson
-Sav

Re. Sav: Yet to be proven, but I think we will be a better team once he gets a good run as our number 1 Ruck.
by the time they come back we will have others out due to reports and injuries.
undisciplined side and injury prone players
 

Mad_Hatter

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Pretty much you said it-kick to Henry. One spectacular participation (across CHB) then run in an outstanding goal and suddenly he's the great forward hope. Looked lost and unco when not outnumbered, poor sod. I once said to a group of our players, always remember today's newspaper, tomorrow's fish and chip paper.....(showing my age, but they got the gist)
If we had Rohan and Cameron he doesn't play forward, he was purely there to limit levers ability to go third man up against Hawkins, questionable if that worked even a little. Henry was poor aside from his 2 goals but same could be said of Hawkins, although not entirely his own fault.
 

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CatToTheFuture

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O'Connor defensive ran his arse off all day and was worst on ground.
Better than a guy playing his 3rd game in the middle? Yeah true, but you drop Zuth and plug him straight into his actual position at half back he'll have a bigger impact than if you drop Constable in his preferred midfield position.

I think When they immediately threw Oliver forward to break the tag and o Connor didn't go with him it threw him. Tagging Petracca looked a waste of time so he was a bit lost. MOC will learn from it I think.
 

Shadow89

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So many silly comments on here - you'd think it was the main board or the Bay.

People still haven't wrapped their head around the fact that we are currently sitting 2-2, with nearly a third of our best team missing, and we haven't gotten smashed in ANY of our matches.

Brisbane we were the better team for 3 quarters, Adelaide we nearly snatched it - and they are far better than anyone thought they would be at the start of the year - and Hawthorn we eeked out a win, but we were still up by 4 goals at one point - so we were never out (held on for dear life, but never out of it).

We were beaten by a team that is 4-0 and sits atop the ladder, by only 4 goals.

Our style seems to be slowly adapting, but as Scott said, we still have a lot to improve on/work on. He also said that the way we played in the third was the way we want to play - but obviously we can't for long patches due to the lack of manpower/having to isolate Hawkins when the defence gets clogged up.

Look what happened when we went balls to the wall with slingshot footy in the last, Lever set up everyone and they just rebounded it out at will - that's what happens when you play blistering footy without any actual targets to kick it to besides the one who is being double-teamed.

Really take a step back and have a think about this...if this is the worst we are right now, where players like Zuthrie, Dahl, Constable, Narkle and Close (I thought he was absolutely fantastic today - but he's still not in our Best 22 ahead of guys like Simmo and Clarky) are currently playing games - doesn't that mean that the only way is up from here?

You make these changes from today's team and EVERYTHING changes:

OUT: Dahlhaus, Close, Narkle, Z. Guthrie, Stanley, Kolo, Bews

IN: J. Cameron, Danger, Rohan, Parfitt, Ratugolea, S. Higgins, S. Simpson

You go from a lackluster team that looks like this (with players completely out of position due to necessity - bolded not in our Best 22 and underlined being played out of position):

B: Bews, Blics, Kolo
HB: Atkins, Hendo, Stewart
C: I. Smith, Selwood, Tuohy
FO: Stanley, Guthrie, O'Connor
HF: Duncan, Henry, Dahlhaus
F: Miers, Hawkins, Clark
INT: Menegola, Close, Narkle, Zuthrie

To an incredibly dynamic (possible Best 22) team that looks like this:

B: Atkins, Blics, Henry
HB: Clark, Hendo, Stewart
C: I. Smith, Selwood, Menegola
FO: Ratugolea, Guthrie, Danger
HF: Duncan, J. Cameron, S. Higgins
F: Miers, Hawkins, Rohan
INT: Parfitt, Tuohy, O'Connor S. Simpson

- It allows us the option of rucking Sav, or playing him forward and Blics rucking as a chop out.

- It allows us the option of playing Danger forward, having a plethora of midfield options - both offensive and defensive, while also allowing attacking players like Clark and Tuohy to play back/wing and offer offensive drive.

- It allows us to interchange Higgins/Menegola/Duncan/Simpson and Smith at half forward, while also having Henry as a swingman.

- It also allows us to have games where someone like O'Connor, Miers, Rohan or Clark gets dropped, to have both Stanley and Sav interchange in the ruck if need be - on balance.

These are very key players, and people whinging their guts out need to realize the significant improvement that can be had from adding just even a few of them/chopping a few others - let alone SEVEN players.

While Kolo, Bews, Dahl and Stanley might not get dropped right away, it still means when everyone is fit that there is far more selection pressure on their spots due to having a larger squad in the twos pushing them to play their best so they keep their spot in the ones.

Even someone like Cooper Stephens - who is earmarked as a long-term replacement for Sel or similar, has been injured too, and he most certainly would have played every game thus far given our injuries and our lack of depth due to these injuries. Due to his own niggles, he's been unable to fast track his development, and we've been left with even fewer players to look at due to no-one pressing their case in the VFL.

To wrap up in summary:

1. We aren't even close to full strength now

2. We sit 2-2 and have a third of our 22 missing - far better position than last year, and very similar to Richmond 2019

3. Our side is slow and stagnant out of necessity, but even when we go quick like we did yesterday in the last half, you can see that it will not work as teams just rebound it out at will due to having 1/6th of a forward line

4. The calibre of players missing also hurts our leadership/direction on field, when the whips start cracking

5. Players forced to play out of position does not give us any chance of scoring well/locking the ball in our forward 50/transitioning it from d50/making their defenders pay us any respect to not zone off - ala Frost last week and Lever this week

6. Lastly, people need to seriously relax. It's not like we're sitting in the Bottom 4, trying to scrape a win together, when we have so many best 22 players out. We have been in every game, and we have close to the most upside in the comp right now- given the calibre of players we have to come back in.

*******************************

A few final points:

Do you think Richmond worry about how they're doing in Round 4 of a 23 round season? Do you think Dusty cares if he's out of form in the first half of the year - as long as he's firing in the final few rounds/finals? No, they get injuries to key players like Prestia, Houli, Lynch, Edwards etc. and they do enough to make finals and then strike from there at full fitness.

We have been accused many times of being a 'fantastic home and away team' but a 'lackluster finals team.' This year it seems we're playing the slow burn and making sure our players are completely fit and firing before we get them back in.

Menegola was horrible in the first half, but built as the game wore on, and will be better for the run. He is AA Squad wingman (should have made it according to all and sundry and last year) and only has improvement in his game to come. The same rings true for a lot of other players too. We've uncovered a tagger in O'Connor who is learning, experimented with Henry up forward to good effect which gives us another interesting weapon down the track and we've still managed to eek out a couple of wins and stay competitive in the other two games - while missing several key players.

Unlike other teams, this isn't the best team we have, nor the best we can play. As players build fitness after their shortened pre-season, so will their game improve, and so will we. If you take out Petracca, Fritsch and Viney out of that team yesterday (equivalent of Danger, Rohan and Parf), do they win? I'm not so sure they do.

That's not to mention Higgins at half forward who was playing an entirely new role compared to anything hes done in the past 5 years, Sav who could be anything and who could be our forward/ruck interchanging with Blics that we've been crying out for, and of course, the 2nd best key forward in the game in 2019 Coleman Medalist - Jeremy Cameron.

Add in Simmo who was really building into our Best 22, and a fully fit Duncan and Menegola, and you can see just how much better we could actually be.

Yes, it's hard to watch, yes it's a tough pill to swallow given the recruits we got and the internal expectations we had, but we will build and we're not playing like crap at the pointy end when it matters - but at the start.

It is clear that our game plan revolves around having TWO key forwards in Cameron and Hawk, and also Rohan as a third up. Once that chemistry actually gets a chance to build throughout the season, look out. As it stands right now, - Scott even alluded to this in his presser - this is not the forward line he envisioned, and not the forward line he wants going forward; that should tell you everything about our prospects moving forward.

TL; DR - if this is the worst we are, then the only way is up from here.
 
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Ricketz

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Might temper the discussion about his tagging abilities a little. Has definitive promise there, but Oliver tore him apart.
Jeeze it's a stretch to say Oliver tore him apart on his own. Melbourne very effectively blocked for Oliver and Petracca. Their midfield tore everyone up, as a cohesive unit. It helps when you have an extra clearance player around ball ups in Gawn playing too.

I'm quite confident that with a more even midfield performance when O'Connor sees more one v ones he will do a good job tagging.
 

cats_09

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No plan b as usual.
Plan B may well have involved Ratugolea - currently on the comeback from injury
Plan C is the guys like Rohan, & Evans who is said to be a strong mark for his size, and was playing out of the goal square - one's currently suspended and the other injured
Plan D is to throw Dangerfield forward as we did against Adelaide - also currently suspended

So not sure it's so much no Plan B, but rather an uncertainty when the first preference alternatives are also unavailable and then not using someone like Jenkins or Fort who are available
 

catscollector

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didnt Actually see the game today but I told family and friends we would get done by 4-6 goals.. and we ended up losing by 25. Not shocked at all this happened, think it was coming from a mile away.

mrlbourne in peak form, we have barely left the station yet. Heaps of key playmakers out.

I feel like Melbourne’s equivalent today would have been Petracca and Oliver missing from the side. We have probably 4-6 instant seniors to come back into the side.

parfitt, Rohan, dangerfield, cameron, simpson, ratugolea(most likely).

that is An extremely Different side if you fielded it next week. 1/3rd of a fielded side different to be exact.

need to get to the halfway mark being equal wind losses or slightly ahead.

win all our games at home is a must. Can’t drop any at skilled.

already 1 win at MCG which is a bonus.

will be 3-2 after next week, which is not too bad...

beat WCE at geelong and we are 4-2... that’s a decent return.

for me the next two weeks are huge, mostly the WCE game. Season shaping game for us
lol, Simpson and Ratugolea are still trying to secure their spot in the best 22.
Simpson is showing great signs but he's 15 games into his career. Hardly an instant senior player.
Ratugolea will likely want out at seasons end. Why stick around when you are not wanted as this coach prefers pea hearts like Stanley and Blicavs over you in the ruck instead?
Rohan is a complete dud of the highest order. The worst big game player in the clubs history. Jelly legs and has no angry bone in his body (except when he has the opportunity to whack blokes 5ft'7 tall or shorter).
Narkle will give us just as much forward output as what Rohan will going forward.

Dangerfield and Cameron are the only two big inclusions for us.
Get them back and we may look a lot better but with this coach and his persistence to play as many defenders in a team as possible, we aren't getting near the likes of Richmond, Bulldogs or Port Adelaide and I highly doubt we even beat Sydney and St Kilda in the next month. They are quick and play frenetically. Geelong are the 2014 Fremantle Dockers of the competition.
 

Turkey Tom

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Some strange team selections decisions did not help.

I assume they knew Parfitt was a fitness test, so why play Narkle for a half in the VFL if he was the option to replace him?

Also as Narkle did play VFL, why not use Holmes to replace Parfitt and make Narkle the sub?

If Holmes was sore, why make him the sub in the first place, as there was a chance he may have been called to play most of the game if there was an early injury.

All sounds like bad planning and/or no clear thinking.
 

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