Autopsy Geelong loses to Demons by 25 points.

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Partridge

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Jeeze it's a stretch to say Oliver tore him apart on his own. Melbourne very effectively blocked for Oliver and Petracca. Their midfield tore everyone up, as a cohesive unit. It helps when you have an extra clearance player around ball ups in Gawn playing too.

I'm quite confident that with a more even midfield performance when O'Connor sees more one v ones he will do a good job tagging.
I'm sure he'll get better too. He's learning a specific craft (if he's allowed to stick at it). But even during he first quarter the commentators were highlighting and pumping up the duel between him and Oliver. It got quieter and quieter as the game wore on.

He'll develop more, but when you have 10 touches and your opponent has 34 you have to face reality.
 

Sire of Claude

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Scott should stop referring to reasons in the background that "I'm not going to make public". It's tantamount to making an excuse.

In the 2019 finals he said, "We'll be better next year." Cats had just finished on top, so it was hardly necessary to say we'll be better next year! It signalled fear of defeat in the next week.
 

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PzBlinky

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I'm sure he'll get better too. He's learning a specific craft (if he's allowed to stick at it). But even during he first quarter the commentators were highlighting and pumping up the duel between him and Oliver. It got quieter and quieter as the game wore on.

He'll develop more, but when you have 10 touches and your opponent has 34 you have to face reality.
Considering it was his third game doing the job and his first two weeks were definite ticks, I certainly hope he's given plenty more chances - he would've learned a lot more today about tagging than a fortnight ago when Neale rolled over.
 

Shadow89

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lol, Simpson and Ratugolea are still trying to secure their spot in the best 22.
Simpson is showing great signs but he's 15 games into his career. Hardly an instant senior player.
Ratugolea will likely want out at seasons end. Why stick around when you are not wanted as this coach prefers pea hearts like Stanley and Blicavs over you in the ruck instead?
Rohan is a complete dud of the highest order. The worst big game player in the clubs history. Jelly legs and has no angry bone in his body (except when he has the opportunity to whack blokes 5ft'7 tall or shorter).
Narkle will give us just as much forward output as what Rohan will going forward.

Dangerfield and Cameron are the only two big inclusions for us.
Get them back and we may look a lot better but with this coach and his persistence to play as many defenders in a team as possible, we aren't getting near the likes of Richmond, Bulldogs or Port Adelaide and I highly doubt we even beat Sydney and St Kilda in the next month. They are quick and play frenetically. Geelong are the 2014 Fremantle Dockers of the competition.
We played frenetically in the last quarter - look where it got us.

You obviously don't understand the role Rohan plays - as a lot of others don't either. He's a foil to Hawkins, and takes a defender/puts pressure on at the same time. He's not a great player at all, but his role in the side should be as a third tall not a second medium tall. With Cameron in the side, it allows him to basically do what he wants and crumb goals/take marks without having too much attention (you only need to see the game when he first came in against Hawthorn, to see how well he can perform in that role).

Also, to your other point re: none of our inclusions making a difference, I'll offer these comparisons based on yesterday's team:

Danger > Narkle

S. Higgins > Dahlhaus

Rohan > Close (debatable, but at least can mark and offers a foil to the marking talls once Cameron is back)

Parfitt > Zuthrie

Ratugolea > Stanley (gives us more flexibility and Stanley has been terrible)

J. Cameron > Henry/Kolo (Henry goes back as I think Kolo is far worse)

S. Simpson > Bews (rising talent midfielder/fwd replacing a surplus defender)

******************

Would you argue with any of the above? If not, then you can easily see, based on the seven players I suggested earlier coming in for those poor/non Best 22 players from yesterday, just how much better our side can actually be.

P.S. your point about Sav is utterly ridiculous. Sav is settled, lives with Parf, is one of Scott's favourites (has outright come out and said this on more than one occasion), and rebuffed very strong offers from GWS last year, to stay with us and quote 'fight for his spot as he loves it here.' He's been injured all pre-season, hasn't had a chance to even push Stanley out, and it's still very early in the year. No sense it all in that part of your comment.
 
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BORIS332

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You say that like we have an established forward line and not just Hawkins plus misc. Cameron would obviously help but we did without him last year.
Higgins, Rohan, Cameron, Dangerfield, Esava, Simpson - all six are best 22 when fit. We also had Parfitt miss on the weekend, that's 7/22, almost a third of our team. To claim our team is not depleted is just baffling.
 

BORIS332

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Literally the 1 player who would have made us worse. The biggest issue for us the whole game was being massively outspread. Imagine if we'd play he statue as well hahahah
Constable was so ordinary last week as injury sub. People look at his stat sheet and think he's some sort of gun. No one notices how much of a liability he is at stoppages and on the spread.
 

Kitcat

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So many silly comments on here - you'd think it was the main board or the Bay.

People still haven't wrapped their head around the fact that we are currently sitting 2-2, with nearly a third of our best team missing, and we haven't gotten smashed in ANY of our matches.

Brisbane we were the better team for 3 quarters, Adelaide we nearly snatched it - and they are far better than anyone thought they would be at the start of the year - and Hawthorn we eeked out a win, but we were still up by 4 goals at one point - so we were never out (held on for dear life, but never out of it).

We were beaten by a team that is 4-0 and sits atop the ladder, by only 4 goals.

Our style seems to be slowly adapting, but as Scott said, we still have a lot to improve on/work on. He also said that the way we played in the third was the way we want to play - but obviously we can't for long patches due to the lack of manpower/having to isolate Hawkins when the defence gets clogged up.

Look what happened when we went balls to the wall with slingshot footy in the last, Lever set up everyone and they just rebounded it out at will - that's what happens when you play blistering footy without any actual targets to kick it to besides the one who is being double-teamed.

Really take a step back and have a think about this...if this is the worst we are right now, where players like Zuthrie, Dahl, Constable, Narkle and Close (I thought he was absolutely fantastic today - but he's still not in our Best 22 ahead of guys like Simmo and Clarky) are currently playing games - doesn't that mean that the only way is up from here?

You make these changes from today's team and EVERYTHING changes:

OUT: Dahlhaus, Close, Narkle, Z. Guthrie, Stanley, Kolo, Bews

IN: J. Cameron, Danger, Rohan, Parfitt, Ratugolea, S. Higgins, S. Simpson

You go from a lackluster team that looks like this (with players completely out of position due to necessity - bolded not in our Best 22 and underlined being played out of position):

B: Bews, Blics, Kolo
HB: Atkins, Hendo, Stewart
C: I. Smith, Selwood, Tuohy
FO: Stanley, Guthrie, O'Connor
HF: Duncan, Henry, Dahlhaus
F: Miers, Hawkins, Clark
INT: Menegola, Close, Narkle, Zuthrie

To an incredibly dynamic (possible Best 22) team that looks like this:

B: Atkins, Blics, Henry
HB: Clark, Hendo, Stewart
C: I. Smith, Selwood, Menegola
FO: Ratugolea, Guthrie, Danger
HF: Duncan, J. Cameron, S. Higgins
F: Miers, Hawkins, Rohan
INT: Parfitt, Tuohy, O'Connor S. Simpson

- It allows us the option of rucking Sav, or playing him forward and Blics rucking as a chop out.

- It allows us the option of playing Danger forward, having a plethora of midfield options - both offensive and defensive, while also allowing attacking players like Clark and Tuohy to play back/wing and offer offensive drive.

- It allows us to interchange Higgins/Menegola/Duncan/Simpson and Smith at half forward, while also having Henry as a swingman.

- It also allows us to have games where someone like O'Connor, Miers, Rohan or Clark gets dropped, to have both Stanley and Sav interchange in the ruck if need be - on balance.

These are very key players, and people whinging their guts out need to realize the significant improvement that can be had from adding just even a few of them/chopping a few others - let alone SEVEN players.

While Kolo, Bews, Dahl and Stanley might not get dropped right away, it still means when everyone is fit that there is far more selection pressure on their spots due to having a larger squad in the twos pushing them to play their best so they keep their spot in the ones.

Even someone like Cooper Stephens - who is earmarked as a long-term replacement for Sel or similar, has been injured too, and he most certainly would have played every game thus far given our injuries and our lack of depth due to these injuries. Due to his own niggles, he's been unable to fast track his development, and we've been left with even fewer players to look at due to no-one pressing their case in the VFL.

To wrap up in summary:

1. We aren't even close to full strength now

2. We sit 2-2 and have a third of our 22 missing - far better position than last year, and very similar to Richmond 2019

3. Our side is slow and stagnant out of necessity, but even when we go quick like we did yesterday in the last half, you can see that it will not work as teams just rebound it out at will due to having 1/6th of a forward line

4. The calibre of players missing also hurts our leadership/direction on field, when the whips start cracking

5. Players forced to play out of position does not give us any chance of scoring well/locking the ball in our forward 50/transitioning it from d50/making their defenders pay us any respect to not zone off - ala Frost last week and Lever this week

6. Lastly, people need to seriously relax. It's not like we're sitting in the Bottom 4, trying to scrape a win together, when we have so many best 22 players out. We have been in every game, and we have close to the most upside in the comp right now- given the calibre of players we have to come back in.

*******************************

A few final points:

Do you think Richmond worry about how they're doing in Round 4 of a 23 round season? Do you think Dusty cares if he's out of form in the first half of the year - as long as he's firing in the final few rounds/finals? No, they get injuries to key players like Prestia, Houli, Lynch, Edwards etc. and they do enough to make finals and then strike from there at full fitness.

We have been accused many times of being a 'fantastic home and away team' but a 'lackluster finals team.' This year it seems we're playing the slow burn and making sure our players are completely fit and firing before we get them back in.

Menegola was horrible in the first half, but built as the game wore on, and will be better for the run. He is AA Squad wingman (should have made it according to all and sundry and last year) and only has improvement in his game to come. The same rings true for a lot of other players too. We've uncovered a tagger in O'Connor who is learning, experimented with Henry up forward to good effect which gives us another interesting weapon down the track and we've still managed to eek out a couple of wins and stay competitive in the other two games - while missing several key players.

Unlike other teams, this isn't the best team we have, nor the best we can play. As players build fitness after their shortened pre-season, so will their game improve, and so will we. If you take out Petracca, Fritsch and Viney out of that team yesterday (equivalent of Danger, Rohan and Parf), do they win? I'm not so sure they do.

That's not to mention Higgins at half forward who was playing an entirely new role compared to anything hes done in the past 5 years, Sav who could be anything and who could be our forward/ruck interchanging with Blics that we've been crying out for, and of course, the 2nd best key forward in the game in 2019 Coleman Medalist - Jeremy Cameron.

Add in Simmo who was really building into our Best 22, and a fully fit Duncan and Menegola, and you can see just how much better we could actually be.

Yes, it's hard to watch, yes it's a tough pill to swallow given the recruits we got and the internal expectations we had, but we will build and we're not playing like crap at the pointy end when it matters - but at the start.

It is clear that our game plan revolves around having TWO key forwards in Cameron and Hawk, and also Rohan as a third up. Once that chemistry actually gets a chance to build throughout the season, look out. As it stands right now, - Scott even alluded to this in his presser - this is not the forward line he envisioned, and not the forward line he wants going forward; that should tell you everything about our prospects moving forward.

TL; DR - if this is the worst we are, then the only way is up from here.
And look at 2019. We won 11 of the first 12 and then went win/loss, and faded. Form at the end of the season is what counts, and we have only played one game at GMHBA so far.
 

bulletproof

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Narkle showed touches of class but they showed a head on for one of the demons goals and he just didn’t follow his opponent (Pickett) back and it led to a goal. That stuff just infuriates coaches.

I still think his best spot would be half forward and he would potentially offer more than Luke Dahlhaus or even Miers.

But they seem set on him as a VFL mid.
 

cats_09

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We played frenetically in the last quarter - look where it got us.

You obviously don't understand the role Rohan plays - as a lot of others don't either. He's a foil to Hawkins, and takes a defender/puts pressure on at the same time. He's not a great player at all, but his role in the side should be as a third tall not a second medium tall. With Cameron in the side, it allows him to basically do what he wants and crumb goals/take marks without having too much attention (you only need to see the game when he first came in against Hawthorn, to see how well he can perform in that role).

Also, to your other point re: none of our inclusions making a difference, I'll offer these comparisons based on yesterday's team:

Danger > Narkle

S. Higgins > Dahlhaus

Rohan > Close (debatable, but at least can mark and offers a foil to the marking talls once Cameron is back)

Parfitt > Zuthrie

Ratugolea > Stanley (gives us more flexibility and Stanley has been terrible)

J. Cameron > Henry/Kolo (Henry goes back as I think Kolo is far worse)

S. Simpson > Bews (rising talent midfielder/fwd replacing a surplus defender)

******************

Would you argue with any of the above? If not, then you can easily see, based on the seven players I suggested earlier coming in for those poor/non Best 22 players from yesterday, just how much better our side can actually be.
One area I really missed Rohan yesterday was manning the mark from a behind kick in - at one stage it was Dahlhaus doing that and he just doesn't have the explosive pace to put pressure on the guy kicking in, meaning that he can run those few extra metres and still kick with ease

Watching Rohan when he's on the mark from behind, his got the foot speed to really rush in & close down on the guy trying to sneak a few extra metres, and it can pressure the kick

We also saw in the pre-season match against Essendon that when we had Hawkins & Cameron both working further up the field, that with his pace Rohan was able to get on the end of a couple of passages of play to kick a kinda easy goal

I'm not going to argue that Rohan is the best player available, but I'm curious to see how he'll go when we get both Hawkins & Cameron in the team as suddenly he can be the 3rd forward target rather than trying to be the foil for Hawkins
 

Partridge

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You obviously don't understand the role Rohan plays - as a lot of others don't either. He's a foil to Hawkins, and takes a defender/puts pressure on at the same time. He's not a great player at all, but his role in the side should be as a third tall not a second medium tall. With Cameron in the side, it allows him to basically do what he wants and crumb goals/take marks without having too much attention (you only need to see the game when he first came in against Hawthorn, to see how well he can perform in that role).
Yeah I know, it's what he does when he doesn't have the ball apparently. By that logic we should have cruised to victory yesterday - he was sitting in the stands. He's getting close to Josh "he's guarding one side of the ground" Cowan levels of excuses for non-performance.

Danger > Narkle

S. Higgins > Dahlhaus

Rohan > Close (debatable, but at least can mark and offers a foil to the marking talls once Cameron is back)

Parfitt > Zuthrie

Ratugolea > Stanley (gives us more flexibility and Stanley has been terrible)


J. Cameron > Henry/Kolo (Henry goes back as I think Kolo is far worse)

S. Simpson > Bews (rising talent midfielder/fwd replacing a surplus defender)
No argument for Dangerfield, Higgins, or Cameron. Problem is I don't necessarily see Henry or Kolodjashnij as being dropped. Maybe Henry, Kolodjashnij won't be. I'm not convinced at all that Ratugolea is any better than Stanley, and I can't see Bews being dropped.

As for Close, he had 19 touches yesterday and laid 4 tackles. You know the last time Rohan had 19 touches in a game? 2016. I know I know, it's what he does when he doesn't have the ball. Or something.
 

cats_09

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And look at 2019. We won 11 of the first 12 and then went win/loss, and faded. Form at the end of the season is what counts, and we have only played one game at GMHBA so far.
And this is what gets annoying - yes we finished top of the ladder in 2019, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking we were the form team going into that finals series. So when Scott said we could get better in 2020, he was joking around
 

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Chinacats

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Dees waltzed it out yesterday from our F50. Doesn't help that we are too Tommy conscious, but our forwards are just not dangerous. Can they at least apply some defensive pressure?
 

Shadow89

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Yeah I know, it's what he does when he doesn't have the ball apparently. By that logic we should have cruised to victory yesterday - he was sitting in the stands. He's getting close to Josh "he's guarding one side of the ground" Cowan levels of excuses for non-performance.



No argument for Dangerfield, Higgins, or Cameron. Problem is I don't necessarily see Henry or Kolodjashnij as being dropped. Maybe Henry, Kolodjashnij won't be. I'm not convinced at all that Ratugolea is any better than Stanley, and I can't see Bews being dropped.

As for Close, he had 19 touches yesterday and laid 4 tackles. You know the last time Rohan had 19 touches in a game? 2016. I know I know, it's what he does when he doesn't have the ball. Or something.
100% agreed on Rohan vs Close, but, I just think structurally Rohan might be more important when everyone is fit and firing. Really like Close and would actually have him in over Miers at the moment
 

catstragic

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We were really inefficient I50 and got smashed around the ball. You'd think the inclusions over the next week or so will do something to address both issues. I thought we actually moved it with a bit more aggression this week, but the final kick inside 50 remains a serious problem. Good to see the things that stood out about Close last year - his strength overhead, the speed of his hands in close - weren't just flashes in the pan. He absolutely needs to hold his spot ahead of every other young player and Dahlhaus.
[/QUOTE ]

This week we did bring the ball into the forward half faster than we did in the last few rounds. Didn't work- didn't have enough marking power, ball kept being intercepted 30-40m out then was run straight through the zone and punched down to half forward by the Dee's. Until we get a forward line that isn't one KPF and defender in his 3rd game in attack we need to control the ball.
 

catstragic

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Just not a very good side at the moment. Doubling-down by recruiting the old players was the wrong move. Our game plan is now severely outdated and simply won't work. If the team can't change it'll be a very rough year. Add to that we just don't have the balance of quality talent needed now to win. The game has passed this group by.

The margin flattered us. Melbourne controlled the game all day and could have taken it away from us in the first quarter with better accuracy. We were never in it.
Smith was probably one of our best on the day! While it may hurt long term without Smith we have at least one extra L this season.
 

Chinacats

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And this is what gets annoying - yes we finished top of the ladder in 2019, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking we were the form team going into that finals series. So when Scott said we could get better in 2020, he was joking around
he said we would be better in 2020 on the eve of the 2019 finals series. Pretty weak effort that. leading into a finals series that was mind boggling.
 

Sire of Claude

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When players go missing we all tend to say Ah but his role is such and such; or it's what he does when he doesn't have the ball etc.

But at the end of the day a bloke has got to get a kick, does he not? Sometimes I think we over-theorise in order to excuse mediocrity or worse.

Rohan is notorious for not touching the pill in finals and in any event averages 11 approx. a game. Dalhouse applies pressure but applying pressure is not rocket science. Close does that (4 tackles ), has pace and is a reasonably capable kick. Bews is said to be good on smalls but he is also a mistake merchant.

We desperately need players who can adhere to instructions but also apply some offensive pressure.
 

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