Autopsy Geelong Loses to Swans by 2 points - Rd 7, 2021

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Not trying to step on any toes here, but can anyone here honestly convince me or themselves that a poor or non decision in the last 10 seconds, is any different to one during the course of the game?

There were multiple poor decisions in that game as there is in every game. Specific ones that stick out to me include the 'chopping the arms' that lead to Close's goal despite the fact there wasn't even the slightest contact. Another is the first goal of the game when Henderson kicked the ball all but 7 metres to Miers. If you nullify every bad decision then you probably lose a couple of goals as well. Can't just pick and choose pointing out the last one.

I would even argue the same point in favour of you guys in the Brisbane game.

People focus on the decisions at the end of the game because they're fresh in the memory. You're right that there were similar calls throughout the night where the umpires were calling not 15 when the ball was in the middle of its trajectory both ways, but since they happened earlier in the game they tend to be forgotten. The umpiring didn't cost us though - it was our inaccuracy in front of goal coupled with your guys just slotting goals seemingly from everywhere.

People saying Brisbane were robbed against us earlier in the year tend to forget that not only did a similar decision go against us earlier in the game, but Eric Hipwood also hit the post running into an open goal earlier in the game as well. That was probably more costly in the wash up as that was something entirely in the team's control.
 
Jun 5, 2007
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Not trying to step on any toes here, but can anyone here honestly convince me or themselves that a poor or non decision in the last 10 seconds, is any different to one during the course of the game?

There were multiple poor decisions in that game as there is in every game. Specific ones that stick out to me include the 'chopping the arms' that lead to Close's goal despite the fact there wasn't even the slightest contact. Another is the first goal of the game when Henderson kicked the ball all but 7 metres to Miers. If you nullify every bad decision then you probably lose a couple of goals as well. Can't just pick and choose pointing out the last one.

I would even argue the same point in favour of you guys in the Brisbane game.
Yeah we will cop it and move on. Though at this time of a tight game such a clear howler is yet another example of how much the game turns on the subjective calls of the umpire. And I think many fans from all clubs are getting a bit sick of it.

Don't get me wrong the umps have a tough gig with so much going on around them, so many interpretations and so many changes. They will make mistakes.

This one was another that was so bad it highlights the many flaws in the rules of our game. Being a bit of a free market dude I would generally support leaving things alone and let it evolve on the back of coaches and player initiatives.
 

zyzzbruh

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Yeah we will cop it and move on. Though at this time of a tight game such a clear howler is yet another example of how much the game turns on the subjective calls of the umpire. And I think many fans from all clubs are getting a bit sick of it.

Don't get me wrong the umps have a tough gig with so much going on around them, so many interpretations and so many changes. They will make mistakes.

This one was another that was so bad it highlights the many flaws in the rules of our game. Being a bit of a free market dude I would generally support leaving things alone and let it evolve on the back of coaches and player initiatives.
My point is why does a howler in the middle of a game get ignored whilst the one at the end doesn't. Because Geelong definitely got a couple of goals from howlers.
 

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Jun 5, 2007
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My point is why does a howler in the middle of a game get ignored whilst the one at the end doesn't. Because Geelong definitely got a couple of goals from howlers.
I get that. My reply to that is at the end of the game the emotions are higher and therefore the clear error it is highlighted more.

My broader point is that the rules and interpretations are so flexible at all times it is not great for the game = I agree with your point
 

Overhang

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I've always thought the AFL upped the distance from 10m to 15m to try and ensure that those short 6-8m kicks are called play on and not necessarily to prevent 10-14m kicks from being called a mark, you see many times in a game kicks that are less than 15m being called a mark but its not often 15m+ kicks are called play on
 
Nov 24, 2008
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My point is why does a howler in the middle of a game get ignored whilst the one at the end doesn't. Because Geelong definitely got a couple of goals from howlers.

Probably because the stakes are higher at the end of a close game, so every emotion is magnified. It's not only with free kicks either. For example, I just checked the stats and Papley kicked 2 goals - I can't recall the first one, but I definitely remember the sealer.
 

bombersboy

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My point is why does a howler in the middle of a game get ignored whilst the one at the end doesn't. Because Geelong definitely got a couple of goals from howlers.
As did Sydney so what is your point. Mark paid at the top the square to McLean was a great attempt but he did not control the ball on the way down.
 
Probably comes down to expectations.
Nobody expects anything from Zuthrie so when he doesn't stuff up people have positive reactions to his game, on the other side plenty around believe Chook is a star AFL player by potential so unless he reaches those kind of heights there are negative reactions to his game.
Personally, I don't find either to be AFL level.
Of course they aren't. They are our 23-30 fringe.
Danger and MOC out and no Constable, now seems like Simpson will be set to come in before Charlie.

Papers are stamped. Not up to it.
 

splashwave

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Not trying to step on any toes here, but can anyone here honestly convince me or themselves that a poor or non decision in the last 10 seconds, is any different to one during the course of the game?

There were multiple poor decisions in that game as there is in every game. Specific ones that stick out to me include the 'chopping the arms' that lead to Close's goal despite the fact there wasn't even the slightest contact. Another is the first goal of the game when Henderson kicked the ball all but 7 metres to Miers. If you nullify every bad decision then you probably lose a couple of goals as well. Can't just pick and choose pointing out the last one.

I would even argue the same point in favour of you guys in the Brisbane game.
I pretty much agree with this, one difference though is that a bad call at the very end really does decide the game as there’s nowhere for it to go after that. when it happens early on, an entirely different game unfolds after the decision, so you can’t concretely say how it influenced the end result the way you can with a late call.
 
My point is why does a howler in the middle of a game get ignored whilst the one at the end doesn't. Because Geelong definitely got a couple of goals from howlers.

Simple...because the last minute howler in this instance had a DIRECT influence on the outcome of the game whilst the other howlers during the game have a cumulative effect on the outcome.....

Its apples and oranges mate...
 
Where can one find the Frees For all time player stats? afltables doesn't seem to have them.

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Spazz Cat

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For all the people who go on about how players get frees for nothing now, its soft, imagine being a defender now...so on, so on etc etc
That's how many frees used to be paid back in the day. They were paid constantly.
Not one modern day player in there. (Except Selwood)
 
For all the people who go on about how players get frees for nothing now, its soft, imagine being a defender now...so on, so on etc etc
That's how many frees used to be paid back in the day. They were paid constantly.
Not one modern day player in there. (Except Selwood)

Spot on. These tallies were for just one team. For example, the free kick tally in that South Melbourne - Hawthorn game was actually 72 to 55. You would rarely get 60 free kicks combined in a game nowadays, let alone for just one team.

1620203262598.png
 
Spot on. These tallies were for just one team. For example, the free kick tally in that South Melbourne - Hawthorn game was actually 72 to 55. You would rarely get 60 free kicks combined in a game nowadays, let alone for just one team.

View attachment 1119269

Wow, that 72-55 tally wasn't even the highest total tally in a game....

1620203941951.png


Compare these to the lowest tallies in a game, most of which were in the last 20 years....

1620204061389.png
 

JohnZ

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Spot on. These tallies were for just one team. For example, the free kick tally in that South Melbourne - Hawthorn game was actually 72 to 55. You would rarely get 60 free kicks combined in a game nowadays, let alone for just one team.

View attachment 1119269
The decrease in free kicks paid could almost come down to the reduction in the HTB rule. Back then any throw, drop, tackle resulted in a free kick. Now the umpires seem to detest paying it like it'll hurt the player's feelings. They also blew the whistle a lot quicker back then rather than waiting for the play to happen.
 
Not trying to step on any toes here, but can anyone here honestly convince me or themselves that a poor or non decision in the last 10 seconds, is any different to one during the course of the game?

There were multiple poor decisions in that game as there is in every game. Specific ones that stick out to me include the 'chopping the arms' that lead to Close's goal despite the fact there wasn't even the slightest contact. Another is the first goal of the game when Henderson kicked the ball all but 7 metres to Miers. If you nullify every bad decision then you probably lose a couple of goals as well. Can't just pick and choose pointing out the last one.

I would even argue the same point in favour of you guys in the Brisbane game.
I don't think too many are disagreeing with you
 

Spazz Cat

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Spot on. These tallies were for just one team. For example, the free kick tally in that South Melbourne - Hawthorn game was actually 72 to 55. You would rarely get 60 free kicks combined in a game nowadays, let alone for just one team.

View attachment 1119269
To put that in perspective teams now usually get around 200-ish kicks total.
And many are nothing, backward kicks.
 
Well they should...the difference is stark.
No I think your logic is warped here.
Numerous calls and non-calls that affect the game throughout, all it takes is 1 goal to be kicked off a poor decision and the game is altered.

The ball goes back to the middle after the goal, whereas a non-call leaves it inside one team's 50m arc. Ball could have slingshotted down the end for a goal or bounced around for 5 minutes before the next goal.

That one was missed with 9 seconds left did not lose us the game, too many variables prior to say that is the case.
 
Oct 16, 2006
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If it was the only dubious call of the game then yes you would have been robbed. But when you were on the receiving end of a few yourselves that produced goals, I don't see how you can think you were. You can't focus on just that last call and ignore the others just because it was in the last second.

Were you outraged when we got our win against Brisbane?
What annoys me isn’t your opinion but it’s how everyone has that opinion now but not when we played Brisbane despite their 10 shots on goal from frees to our 1.
Neale not pinged for a throw late, Coleman not done for an arm chop.
Jordan Clark doesn’t get an obvious HTB early in the game but HTB often gets interpreted wrong, whereas I’ve never seen a 22m kick deemed not 15.

You can have your opinion but if you’re like most people who were outraged for Brisbane than you can shove your opinion where the sun don’t shine.
 
Apr 20, 2008
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No I think your logic is warped here.
Numerous calls and non-calls that affect the game throughout, all it takes is 1 goal to be kicked off a poor decision and the game is altered.

The ball goes back to the middle after the goal, whereas a non-call leaves it inside one team's 50m arc. Ball could have slingshotted down the end for a goal or bounced around for 5 minutes before the next goal.

That one was missed with 9 seconds left did not lose us the game, too many variables prior to say that is the case.
I agree with this. I also can’t believe the amount of people who think Cameron would have kicked the goal. He was next to the boundary and couldn’t run around as the siren would have gone. Yes he was on his left, but it’s almost an impossible kick without playing on.
 

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