Geelong rorting the system

[Wojcinski]

Geelong are in the running for Butters who will likely get a contract making him the highest paid player ever with the timings of the CBA.

Absolutely insanity when you go through Geelong's list to see how they're in the running.

damn thats crazy

 

[STPer18]

I can sort of understand the saltiness after a big win, but we lost badly on the weekend.
What gives?

It's Geelong, supporters of the 17 other teams are prone to just break out in a tantrum over the football club at any old time. No logic or reason, just a whole heap of hurt feelings and built up frustrations bubbling over.

Geelong being investigated/audited twice this year already and being cleared both times would hurt like hell for our friends on BigFooty.com who support lesser clubs. A got of conspiracy theories like supporters of THAT club will be the next step. Should be fun viewing.

 

[FootyLad0]

One minute we are full of spuds and has beens and Bailey smith is a coke fiend that can’t kick straight, next minute we have a team akin to the 2007 flag side? I wish people would make their mind up

Schrödinger’s Geelong Cat.

Geelong is a scrub team full of unheralded guys that get carried by Chris Scott’s game planning and wins at the “Cheat Ground” while also at the exact same time conveniently have a stacked to the brim team with superstars everywhere and absolutely busting the cap.

And yet a way more obvious example exists right in front of our eyes.
The team with the most wins over the last 5 years.

Brisbane have HOW many first round pick players? They are gonna add another in the next draft most likely top 5 AND getting Oscar Allen but no calls for investigations into how they haven’t lost a single best 22 player in the last 5 years (outside Joe Daniher and that was to retirement, Rayner and McLuggage immediately got huge deals as did Andrews)

How can they keep all their stars together and no one gets poached? Cats get players poached and yet somehow we are cheating?

MAKE IT MAKE SENSE

 

[btdg]

Is it?

We have:

Cameron - superstar
Dangerfield who admittedly has wound back the clock but he is 35 and not even Cats fans thought he could play like he has for the last month
Smith - he has probably exceeded expectations and has never made an all Australian team hefore
Stewart has been a superstar but is showing signs that he’s on the way down
Holmes - probably on track to be a superstar

Then it gets a bit murky
Miers is elite but not a superstar if that makes sense: his is a very specific skill set

Lawson Humphries I would think will become a fantastic player but he’s only played a handful of matches.
Same with Connor O’Sullivan.
Same with Dempsey
Blicavs is at the end of his career and is a one time all Australian
Jack Henry is a really good solid defender
Zac Guthrie I personally think is one of the most underrated players in the game but that doesn’t count for much: he’s not a star
Mannagh wouldn’t be highly paid
Atkins wouldn’t either
Neale is very average
Stengle is on decent coin but his career is at an interesting point
Ollie Henry is very talented but has taken a big drop off lately
Bowes is just a bottom 6-8 player
Close is a slightly above average small forward
SDK always looks poised to break out but kind of hasn’t
Stanley is average and will retire at the end of the year

There’s only 5 all Australians in that side and 2 of them only made it once, one of them on the bench, and 4 of them are well past 30.

Meanwhile Collingwood have 8 in their squad…. And just traded in non-stars but decent enough experienced AFL level players like Perryman and Membrey after bringing in Schultz the year before. And they will no doubt target someone else this off season, and on the rare chance that Bontempelli doesn’t re-sign with the Dogs, they’re considered the front runners for his signature at this stage.

And they have the most valuable player in the game on their books.

And you’re telling me our list is THAT stacked? Come on mate.

One minute we are full of spuds and has beens and Bailey smith is a coke fiend that can’t kick straight, next minute we have a team akin to the 2007 flag side? I wish people would make their mind up

I think there's a general sense with salary cap that:

1. You pay a premium to get players to move from other teams, and particularly for stars.
Geelong have Dangerfield and Cameron as absolute superstars who moved from other clubs. There's an expectation that they are getting paid significantly. Not many teams in the league have two players of that calibre who have moved clubs.

Geelong then also have a larger than average number of mid-tier players from other clubs, and in particular, former first-round or high profile players that have been added: Smith, Bruhn, Bowes, Henry. On perception that also includes Stengle and Jack Martin (but both were delisted, of course)

2. You pay a premium to old players in their twilight, as a bit of a loyalty reward.

Geelong still have a bunch of old premiership players and guys who have had seriously good careers, now in their twilight years. Most players in that situation get a rolled over contract that isn't what they were getting when they were 28, but it's also generous. It doesn't pay to rip off your veterans!

Geelong have the following I'd consider in that boat: Stanley, Blicavs, Duncan, Stewart, Guthrie. Then probably also expect that Bews, Kolodjashni and Atkins are either in the same situation, or the last year of their 'mature' contract (see below)

3. Players peak earning comes age 25-30. In the AFL they hit RFA after 6 years (24), then UFA after 8 years (26). Somewhere in there, even 'good average' players are getting a decent payday, particularly if they have stayed at one club all the way through

Geelong have in that boat: Z Guthrie, Myers, Jack Henry, O'Connor, Brad Close

By that count, it's fair to expect that Geelong have around 20 players who are getting paid signficantly more than average. That's not including Sam De Koning (age 24 - not sure if he's hit his RFA contract yet?), Max Holmes and Humphries/Dempsey (still all only 22, so likely on contracts that don't reflect their performance).

Compare that with Collingwood - they've actived shed salary cap like no one else I can remember (Grundy and Adams, even going back to Stevenson, etc). Even then, they haven't added anyone near the calibre of Dangerfield and Cameron, probably not even the profile of Bailey Smith.

I dunno... the perception seems to be Geelong doesn't have to pay the premium to the older guys because they're getting it in other ways. You don't need to give Rhys Stanley a bit of a top-up to go around for a last year or two, because he has a bloody big farm that he acquired at a great price... you don't have to top up Mitch Duncan because he's got a brand new Ford F150 or whatever.

 

[Mr Meow]

I think there's a general sense with salary cap that:

1. You pay a premium to get players to move from other teams, and particularly for stars.
Geelong have Dangerfield and Cameron as absolute superstars who moved from other clubs. There's an expectation that they are getting paid significantly. Not many teams in the league have two players of that calibre who have moved clubs.

Geelong then also have a larger than average number of mid-tier players from other clubs, and in particular, former first-round or high profile players that have been added: Smith, Bruhn, Bowes, Henry. On perception that also includes Stengle and Jack Martin (but both were delisted, of course)

2. You pay a premium to old players in their twilight, as a bit of a loyalty reward.

Geelong still have a bunch of old premiership players and guys who have had seriously good careers, now in their twilight years. Most players in that situation get a rolled over contract that isn't what they were getting when they were 28, but it's also generous. It doesn't pay to rip off your veterans!

Geelong have the following I'd consider in that boat: Stanley, Blicavs, Duncan, Stewart, Guthrie. Then probably also expect that Bews, Kolodjashni and Atkins are either in the same situation, or the last year of their 'mature' contract (see below)

3. Players peak earning comes age 25-30. In the AFL they hit RFA after 6 years (24), then UFA after 8 years (26). Somewhere in there, even 'good average' players are getting a decent payday, particularly if they have stayed at one club all the way through

Geelong have in that boat: Z Guthrie, Myers, Jack Henry, O'Connor, Brad Close

By that count, it's fair to expect that Geelong have around 20 players who are getting paid signficantly more than average. That's not including Sam De Koning (age 24 - not sure if he's hit his RFA contract yet?), Max Holmes and Humphries/Dempsey (still all only 22, so likely on contracts that don't reflect their performance).

Compare that with Collingwood - they've actived shed salary cap like no one else I can remember (Grundy and Adams, even going back to Stevenson, etc). Even then, they haven't added anyone near the calibre of Dangerfield and Cameron, probably not even the profile of Bailey Smith.

I dunno... the perception seems to be Geelong doesn't have to pay the premium to the older guys because they're getting it in other ways. You don't need to give Rhys Stanley a bit of a top-up to go around for a last year or two, because he has a bloody big farm that he acquired at a great price... you don't have to top up Mitch Duncan because he's got a brand new Ford F150 or whatever.

Now run through every single other club with the same detail.

 

[STPer18]

Compare that with Collingwood - they've actived shed salary cap like no one else I can remember (Grundy and Adams, even going back to Stevenson, etc). Even then, they haven't added anyone near the calibre of Dangerfield and Cameron, probably not even the profile of Bailey Smith.

This random guy is probably earning more than any of those three currently.

Game changer: Could new Pie's move prove a Giant mistake?

Harry Perryman was targeted by Collingwood to play as a midfielder, but it's a move the Giants never persisted with despite multiple trials

www.afl.com.au

Among a busy Trade Period at the AIA Centre last October, the acquisition of Giants free agent Harry Perryman on a six-year deal worth around $900,000 per season was certainly among the splashiest of the Magpies' moves.

 

[btdg]

Now run through every single other club with the same detail.

I think the post I replied to said Collingwood, so as a comparison there:

1. Pay a premium to get players from other clubs

• Superstars = Dan Houston (I don't think he is close to Cameron/Dangerfield, but he's probably getting paid well enough)
• Others = McStay, Cameron, Schultz, Lipinski, Perryman, Hill

2. Old veterans still being PAID based on their history = Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Howe, Elliott, Cox, Mihocek, Mitchell, Hoskin-Elliott, Crisp

3. Peak of career, one-club players in their biggest contract = Moore, De Goey, Maynard, Josh Daicos, Quaynor, MAYBE McReery

Young stars, likely underpaid due to age (but still over the average): N Daicos and I think that's it

By my count: Collingwood = 23 players who I perceive should be getting very good money. Geelong = 23 players in a similar situation. Collingwood probably spending more on its 25-28 year olds (Grundy/De Goey in particular not cheap), Geelong spending more on Cameron/Dangerfield

The big difference in my view is that Collingwood have made clear and noticeable salary cap sacrifices in recent years. Grundy, Adams, Treloar, etc. My own club had to make similar cuts. But Geelong haven't.

As I said, it is hard to fight the perception that Geelong don't have to pay the same premium to their good players because of (reasons). Whether those reasons are legit I guess time will tell...

 

[STPer18]

Back to lesser clubs overpaying for spuds:

‘It just shows a total weakness’: Selection calls lashed as pundits ponder ‘embarrassing’ scenario for recruit

Blues lashed for ‘showing total weakness’ as $4.8m man faces ‘embarrassing’ prospect

www.foxsports.com.au

the team he was traded from last year to join Carlton on a six-year deal worth around $800,000 per year, with incentives that can bring it up to $900,000 a season.

 

[Freomaniac]

Most wins, 2nd most flags.

Yep, ****ing shithouse.
We should be more like Richmond of course. I can’t imagine how insulting it must being a paid up member to watch the team suck for 17 years then finally win 3 then go back to being shit for another 17 years.

I wouldn't mind seeing my beloved Dockers win 3 in 4 years like Richmond in 2017-20 or 3 in 5 years like cats in 2007-2011.

I would love the dockers win one AFL men's flag in my lifetime .

 

[FootyLad0]

I wouldn't mind seeing my beloved Dockers win 3 in 4 years like Richmond in 2017-20 or 3 in 5 years like cats in 2007-2011.

I would love the dockers win one AFL men's flag in my lifetime .

Just do what Port did and claim WAFL flags.

Win/win right

 

[Freomaniac]

Just do what Port did and claim WAFL flags.

Win/win right

Nah. Now that you mentioned Port, I seriously would take Ken Hinkley to replace our current coach in Justin Longmuir

 

[Freomaniac]

Imagine being the current Premier by being gifted multiple advantages such as the Academies, F/S from 2 clubs and receiving additional financial assistance set aside for clubs that are in in heathen hostile territory and still have the audacity to cry about 'justice'.

Gloria Estefan mate..... Cuts both ways.

Go look back to the end of 1986 or early 1987 when west coast and Brisbane came into the comp.

West Coast eagles had the advantage of getting decent local talent in the WAFL. Yes eagles only had 35 players in that squad in which only 7 blokes had played in VFL club, compared to 50 to the other VFL clubs. Eagles were gonna be playing finals eventually.

Brisbane had to get Experienced VFL players too. But they either got young 20-25 year Olds that were either rejects or depth or rotation players from other clubs and has-beens aged 30 years old or over that had a year or 2 left in playing footy.

None of you Victorians complained about the elite Queensland state league in 1987. LoL

 

[Cyclops]

Brisbane have awesome list management, have covered McStay who was a solid first 18 player, otherwise lost few and brought in Neale and Dunkley, as well as good luck with f/s. Bristling with skills, that's good player development.

Not too different at Geelong. Coupla huge names in Danger and Jez, otherwise they have a history of improving trades eg Stengle, Tuohy, Stanley. Traded out players generally don't star eg Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

30

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

, Rataguolea which suggests player development and fitness is top notch. The good fitness regime helps keep oldies on the park.

Pies would have the best fitness regime, or is it just Sidey and Pendles making them look good? We find/decelop guys like Ginnivan, Markov and Mihocek that many clubs ov we looked, so talent identification is a strength esp bottom end with potential. We do trades, Houston the biggest but a lot of good players Adams Treloar Schulz, as well as smart steak knives like Crisp and arguably WHE. List management is mostly good if you discount the firesale (Grundy Treloar Philips plus Beams meltdown).

If these three are cheating it's soft cap: fitness, player support and development, and for Collingwood add talent ID. It's easier to find Danger or Dunkley "over there, the AA standing next to the premiership player", harder to spot the potential C or B hiding in the Port Melbourne backline or the Carlton rookie list.

 

[JustaBattler]

blah blah BS Blah

...... List management is mostly good if you discount the firesale (Grundy Treloar Philips plus Beams meltdown).

LOLOLOLOL

and the earth is flat if you ignore the fact that i is round and salary cap cheating has nothing to do with having a list based on knowingly not being able to meet contract obligations pushed into the after we win a flag nek year future

typical delusional Collingwood post - well done.

 

[Cyclops]

LOLOLOLOL

and the earth is flat if you ignore the fact that i is round and salary cap cheating has nothing to do with having a list based on knowingly not being able to meet contract obligations pushed into the after we win a flag nek year future

typical delusional Collingwood post - well done.

Lucky for you I speak fluent drunk.

If I understand what you've posted, you agree the Pies buggered up with the Beams deal pushing us over the cap? So the delusion is...what exactly?

We did the hard work trading out the contracts and have won a flag even as we've paid Grundy handsomely to play elsewhere.

Turning to your statement "I is round" well that just means there's more of you to love. If you're not happy with how you look you can make a change with diet and exercise. Just know I accept you as you is.

 

[Purple Suit]

Just do what Port did and claim WAFL flags.

Win/win right

Or do what Geelong are trying to do and claim flags from the 1800’s from other competitions? We can add 10 that way.

No thanks.

 

[PhatBoy]

Or do what Geelong are trying to do and claim flags from the 1800’s from other competitions? We can add 10 that way.

No thanks.

What who are trying to do?

A former club official doesn’t speak for the club, much as you want to paint the picture that he does, mate.

We’ve won 10.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Come the end of this year we'll have had Hawkins, Selwood, Guthrie, Duncan, Smith, Tuohy, Stanley, Rohan, Bews and Parfitt retire from our 2022 premiership team.

Danger, Cameron, Stewart and Blicavs will all be on way less than peak earnings.

But where do they find the cap space?

 

[jannissary]

geelong should hire adrian dodoro. he'd get these deals done.

 

[JustaBattler]

Lucky for you I speak fluent drunk.

If I understand what you've posted, you agree the Pies buggered up with the Beams deal pushing us over the cap? So the delusion is...what exactly?

We did the hard work trading out the contracts and have won a flag even as we've paid Grundy handsomely to play elsewhere.

Turning to your statement "I is round" well that just means there's more of you to love. If you're not happy with how you look you can make a change with diet and exercise. Just know I accept you as you is.

I understand you wish to look the other way when it comes to facts so you need to play the attack the poster card instead of looking at facts - it just underlines the delusional space that the typical Collingwood supporter lives in.

 

[MisterMarcus]

It's amazing how opposition supporters simultaneously claim (a) we have a mediocre over-rated list of average players who will fall off a cliff because they're only being carried by a handful of old dudes, and (b) we are this insane powerhouse of wall-to-wall highly paid talent to the point we must be busting the cap.

You gotta pick one, guys.

 

[Cyclops]

I understand you wish to look the other way when it comes to facts so you need to play the attack the poster card instead of looking at facts - it just underlines the delusional space that the typical Collingwood supporter lives in.

...we agree though. Does this mean you're delusional too?

Also is you still round?

 

[JustaBattler]

...we agree though. Does this mean you're delusional too?

Also is you still round?

Ive had to sort out a couple of rogue traders recently and by sort out I mean size twleve boot where they feel it the most - their bank accounts and career prospects. Apart from that Icve been busy enjoying some awesome left hand breaks off Queenscliff and smashing it on the golf course - (helpful hint) I pick a random Carlton spud and pretend it is their head on the tee - it helps a lot with distance.

 

[Cyclops]

Ive had to sort out a couple of rogue traders recently and by sort out I mean size twleve boot where they feel it the most - their bank accounts and career prospects. Apart from that Icve been busy enjoying some awesome left hand breaks off Queenscliff and smashing it on the golf course - (helpful hint) I pick a random Carlton spud and pretend it is their head on the tee - it helps a lot with distance.

Here's a tip, my scone looks exactly like a beat up old slazenger with a couple of red dots.

Just think of me when you send one down the fairway next time, might get you a few yards further, although I'm not known for accuracy...

 

[DanA]

sorry when was this?

There were literally no rule changes in 2022. Sorry to burst your bubble.

The only thing the AFL expressed regarding officiating about 2022 was tighter interpretations on a couple of existing rules like time wasting and holding the ball.

Another excuse maker.

Again we have another person who seems to forget that while one team at the top of the pile seemed to be dethroned by umpires saying ‘stand’ the team with the next best record through that period didn’t seem too fazed by it and managed to stay in the top four.

I also distinctly remember the AFL changing the 3rd man up rule just as Blicavs hit peak of his ability. Was that one done for Geelong's benefit too?