Geelong rorting the system

[Obeanie1]

Any evidence? Or just I Reckon?

Yes I have heaps of evidence that in the modern world you don't use brown paper bags full of cash any more.

There are much better ways to to the same thing.

You could buy a $1 pub. No-one really knows if $1 is fair or a rort.

The US Navey sold a super carrier to a scrap company for $1.

Just saying bags of cash is seriously old school.

 

[PhatBoy]

It does depend apparently. And it seems it's all ok to get caught and still get a game for Geelong.

Didn't the TAC cut ties with Geelong in 2017 after a spate of traffic offences by their players over time, including drink driving?

Stevie Johnson; Joel Selwood; Dawson Simpson; Billie Smedts & Brad Hartman all say hold my beer.

Well it doesn’t look like anyone from Geelong is in here trying to make out like their club delists or sits out all drink drivers while still playing drink drivers.

Why anyone at all wants to play moral arbiter for anything like this at all is beyond me regardless but that’s beside the point.

 

[PhatBoy]

You dont need paper bag for a discounted land purchase do you?

Or the have a building company construct you house or extension at a discount.

Likely get away with more shenanigans being out of the Melbourne fish bowl.

Geelong hold natural advantages linked to cost of living being cheaper in regional areas and not Melbourne.

What is with this idea that Geelong is the only place in the world where you can purchase property

Sorry to tell you but not everyone in the world wants a farm, and not every property in Geelong is cheaper than property in Melbourne

 

[Rob]

Here's the problem with BF. Posters like you voice your conspiracy theories and suspicions, and other posters lap it up as gospel - Guilt until proven otherwise.

Oh OK, so no questions allowed then, cos some nuff on bigfooty might take it as a guilty finding.

Is it too difficult to believe a club can manage its finances with maximum prudence? In the recent HUN report on top paid players, Geelong had 3, compared with, say, Melbourne, who had 8. As Joel Selwood once said (and I am paraphrasing), "Players don't necessarily come to Geelong for the money".

Great - but in terms of us as fans, how can we be confident of that?

I mean let's be honest here - if there was systemic rorting of the cap going on there what else would Selwood have said? He's not going to come out and admit it is he?

If there was a hint of impropriety going on at GMHBA don't you thing someone like a Caroline Wilson, who doesn't like Geelong, would have made a feature of it?

No, because that would require actual investigative journalism.

 

[Rabish Binney]

Well it doesn’t look like anyone from Geelong is in here trying to make out like their club delists or sits out all drink drivers while still playing drink drivers.

Why anyone at all wants to play moral arbiter for anything like this at all is beyond me regardless but that’s beside the point.

You responded to an OP and somewhat took the high moral ground. I merely pointed out to you that Geelong hasn't been immune from off field player indiscretions when it comes to driving offences (nor have a lot of other clubs)

Not having a go - I think you are one of the more rational and common sense posters on here (especially on the cricket boards)

And FWIW I admired Geelong's response to Stengle's incident; how your club and players backed him in - & compare that to what our players and coach did to Rachele by throwing him under the bus.

Which was disgraceful....

 

[PhatBoy]

You responded to an OP and somewhat took the high moral ground. I merely pointed out to you that Geelong hasn't been immune from off field player indiscretions when it comes to driving offences (nor have a lot of other clubs)

Not having a go - I think you are one of the more rational and common sense posters on here (especially on the cricket boards)

And FWIW I admired Geelong's response to Stengle's incident; how your club and players backed him in - & compare that to what our players and coach did to Rachele by throwing him under the bus.

Which was disgraceful....

I don’t think I took anything of the sort.

What your club did re. Worrell was fine.

A crows fan having a go at us for playing a ‘drink driver’ when there is one currently on your list was my point.

 

[Back One Out]

Which ones?

Cameron
Dangerfield…..

And?

Wow. Two in 10 years.

Somebody slow us down

Josh Caddy
Hamish McIntosh
Jared Rivers
Mitch Clark
Rhys Stanley
Nakia Cockatoo
Patrick Dangerfield
Lachie Henderson
Zac Smith
Scott Selwood
Zach Tuohy
Gary Ablett jr
Gary Rohan
Luke Dahlhaus
Josh Jenkins
Jack Steven
Jeremy Cameron
Shaun Higgins
Isaac Smith
Jonathan Ceglar
Tyson Stengle
Jack Bowes
Tanner Bruhn
Oliver Henry

 

[PhatBoy]

Josh Caddy
Hamish McIntosh
Jared Rivers
Mitch Clark
Rhys Stanley
Nakia Cockatoo
Patrick Dangerfield
Lachie Henderson
Zac Smith
Scott Selwood
Zach Tuohy
Gary Ablett jr
Gary Rohan
Luke Dahlhaus
Josh Jenkins
Jack Steven
Jeremy Cameron
Shaun Higgins
Isaac Smith
Jonathan Ceglar
Tyson Stengle
Jack Bowes
Tanner Bruhn
Oliver Henry

These are A graders are they?

Hell even Ablett when he returned was turning 34 a month into his first season back.
Nakia Cockatoo…. Not sure what he’s doing there as we drafted him and he played about 30 games for us over 6 years before he was sent to Brisbane for next to nothing.

The whole point about us supposedly rorting the system is based around getting gun players in below market value.

These aren’t gun players you’re listing.

Hell, one of the best on that list IMO is Ollie Henry and the biggest Geelong critic on this forum swears black and blue that he’s hopeless

 

[Wojcinski]

Josh Caddy
Hamish McIntosh
Jared Rivers
Mitch Clark
Rhys Stanley
Nakia Cockatoo
Patrick Dangerfield
Lachie Henderson
Zac Smith
Scott Selwood
Zach Tuohy
Gary Ablett jr
Gary Rohan
Luke Dahlhaus
Josh Jenkins
Jack Steven
Jeremy Cameron
Shaun Higgins
Isaac Smith
Jonathan Ceglar
Tyson Stengle
Jack Bowes
Tanner Bruhn
Oliver Henry

Josh Caddy - F1+55 - market value
Hamish McIntosh - Pick 36 - paid overs
Jared Rivers - UFA
Mitch Clark - Travis Varcoe - paid overs
Rhys Stanley - Pick 21 - waaay overs
Nakia Cockatoo - we drafted him
Patrick Dangerfield - Pick 9 + 28 + Gore - Overs since he was a FA
Lachie Henderson - F1 - slightly overs
Zac Smith - Pick 49+53 - market value
Scott Selwood - RFA
Zach Tuohy - F1 - market value
Gary Ablett jr - 19 + F2 - overs for a 34 year old
Gary Rohan - Pick 61 - market value
Luke Dahlhaus - UFA
Josh Jenkins - Pick 37 - way overs
Jack Steven - Pick 58 - bargain at the time but proved to be market value
Jeremy Cameron - 3 FRP - Overs since he was a FA
Shaun Higgins - Pick 30 - way overs
Isaac Smith - UFA
Jonathan Ceglar - F3 - overs
Tyson Stengle - Delisted FA
Jack Bowes - market value since the trade was available for any club
Tanner Bruhn - Pick 18 - market value
Oliver Henry - Pick 25 + Cooper Stephens - paid overs

Geelong's been paying fair value or overs for years now

 

[CarmenSandiego]

Said it before but it's such a myth.

I don't want to insult Geelong fans, but their list is a bunch of nobodies. What big name, big money players have they got?

Jeremy Cameron

5

Jeremy Cameron

Age

32

Ht

196cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.5

3star

K

9.0

3star

HB

3.4

3star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

2.6

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

7.1

3star

HB

2.9

2star

M

4.6

4star

T

2.0

3star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.2

2star

K

5.0

2star

HB

3.2

3star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.4

4star

G

2.0

5star

- who deserves every bit of it.
Bailey Smith

3

Bailey Smith

Age

25

Ht

185cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

8.5

3star

HB

9.8

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

3.8

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

19.8

5star

K

9.6

4star

HB

10.2

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

3.2

4star

CL

3.2

4star

D

14.8

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.2

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

3.4

5star

CL

1.6

4star

Jack Bowes

12

Jack Bowes

Age

27

Ht

189cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

D/M

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.3

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.6

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

2.5

4star

MG

318.1

4star

D

18.0

4star

K

11.8

5star

HB

6.3

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

1.1

2star

MG

318.1

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

5.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

2.4

4star

(salary dump).

Who else?

 

[Sttew]

Josh Caddy - F1+55 - market value
Hamish McIntosh - Pick 36 - paid overs
Jared Rivers - UFA
Mitch Clark - Travis Varcoe - paid overs
Rhys Stanley - Pick 21 - waaay overs
Nakia Cockatoo - we drafted him
Patrick Dangerfield - Pick 9 + 28 + Gore - Overs since he was a FA
Lachie Henderson - F1 - slightly overs
Zac Smith - Pick 49+53 - market value
Scott Selwood - RFA
Zach Tuohy - F1 - market value
Gary Ablett jr - 19 + F2 - overs for a 34 year old
Gary Rohan - Pick 61 - market value
Luke Dahlhaus - UFA
Josh Jenkins - Pick 37 - way overs
Jack Steven - Pick 58 - bargain at the time but proved to be market value
Jeremy Cameron - 3 FRP - Overs since he was a FA
Shaun Higgins - Pick 30 - way overs
Isaac Smith - UFA
Jonathan Ceglar - F3 - overs
Tyson Stengle - Delisted FA
Jack Bowes - market value since the trade was available for any club
Tanner Bruhn - Pick 18 - market value
Oliver Henry - Pick 25 + Cooper Stephens - paid overs

Geelong's been paying fair value or overs for years now

Aristotle Pickett neds to see this list. He posted elsewhere, "Again Geelong rips off another club in a trade".

 

[PhatBoy]

Said it before but it's such a myth.

I don't want to insult Geelong fans, but their list is a bunch of nobodies. What big name, big money players have they got?

Jeremy Cameron - who deserves every bit of it.
Bailey Smith
Jack Bowes (salary dump).

Who else?

It’s not an insult. We agree. We as a supporter base probably feel like we got great value out of some of them, absolutely none out of others.

You would be hard pressed to find any that we paid serious ‘unders’ for though. The thing is any time you get someone in and it helps you to success, the resounding response is ‘well it was a bargain’ or ‘it was worth every penny.’

Well being a worthwhile investment doesn’t make something cheap: I’m bloody glad we forked out whatever we’ve given up to get and keep Dangerfield and Cameron because we got a flag out of it and we stayed at the top or near it for the better part of a decade but it still cost a hell of a lot

 

[Back One Out]

These are A graders are they?

These aren’t gun players you’re listing

No mate… I just made a list of every player Geelong has recruited from opposition clubs over the past decade or so…

You (or anyone else) are free to read it however you want. I wasn’t agreeing with the OP. I just thought it made for an interesting list. A lot of excellent footballers among them. Maybe they didn’t all produce their best footy for the Cats, but it’s still a very handy bunch of players. Way better than the recruits of most other AFL clubs

 

[Handsuper47]

The system deserves more rorting, being fair don't get you nowhere!

 

[PhatBoy]

No mate… I just made a list of every player Geelong has recruited from opposition clubs over the past decade or so…

You (or anyone else) are free to read it however you want. I wasn’t agreeing with the OP. I just thought it made for an interesting list. A lot of excellent footballers among them. Maybe they didn’t all produce their best footy for the Cats, but it’s still a very handy bunch of players. Way better than the recruits of most other AFL clubs

Fair enough

Some very good ones, some we squeezed a lot out of, some we gambled on and lost

 

[The Jack]

I’m more interested in knowing what the elephant juice was that they were all on around the 2009 GF.

I watched Paul Chapman

Paul Chapman

Age

44

Ht

179cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

19.7

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

6.9

4star

M

4.7

4star

T

3.5

5star

G

1.3

5star

No current season stats available

D

6.6

2star

K

4.0

2star

HB

2.6

3star

M

1.0

1star

T

1.8

4star

G

0.2

3star

rip his hammy in that GF, go off, then come back on and win the Norm Smith.

 

[Gethelred]

There's several levels to what Geelong do and have done.

Firstly, they genuinely do not give a **** about their list demographics. They're willing to wait - see Zac Guthrie - until a player is 26+ for them to come good, developing discarded and mature talent well after most clubs would discard them. This means when a player becomes AFL quality they are mature as well as AFL capable; they have more composure and understanding for the game than their 21 year old counterparts. Where another club might field a mature age player, Geelong takes a player who is marginal but with AFL footy intelligence and spends the time it takes - however long that is - to get them AFL ready.

This means that their bit parts - those that aren't immediately AFL capable at 18-21 - wind up being better/stronger and possessing more composure than their opposition equivalents. As a team, they don't react to tackling the way other teams do; they have a higher ceiling for received pressure than other teams, by virtue of carrying less young players.

The next thing Geelong do is they have a development cordon down there that is unrivaled by anyone except Sydney. They have a bizarre combination of country footballers - with the requisite toughness inherent in what that entails - and the elite competition you see in larger settlements. You also have a coaching group and scouts inherent to the area, with connections throughout; if there's a talent playing local or state footy, they're odds on to hear it first. They get players into the Geelong sphere, and once in there's no real getting them out.

Thirdly, Geelong's a weird place. Footy is a cult down there, and Kardinia's the cathedrel; you either go for Geelong, you're a ****ing unicorn, or you don't follow the sport. There's three principle interests down there - footy, surfing, and ignoring everything else - and that plays into how Geelong footballers are treated. Imagine, local footy big fish in a small pond stuff, but with AFL financing; that's what these blokes get. They get first look at the butcher's meat; they get free beer and spirits at any pub they walk into; they get first look at property and businesses; they get cars on the down low. This is all my opinion - for the sake of those reading this - but the way Geelong treats its footballers both while they are playing and afterwards is a huge component to why players want to end their careers down there. There's the financially comfortable you'd get playing for Essendon or Carlton, then there's the marginally less financially comfortable you'd get from much less stress whilst being treated like a ****ing god whilst living near the beach or on a farm.

And yes, Geelong players do seem to find their fingers in property just about to be sold at much higher cost or a business just about to take off at above average rates than elsewhere. Just, I don't think this is a Geelong thing; professional sports have long had connections with lucrative business, and this'd be rather widespread AFL wide. Only difference is Geelong have Torquay and a lot of fast rising property prices closer to them, where everyone in Melbourne is competitng for this sort of thing.

Not a single thing has ever been proven concerning Geelong's salary cap, and that's for pretty good reason: they don't need to. The community around them ensures that contemporary footballers don't need to breach the rules to get first choice at the local IPA, first drink at the local pub, firstborn at the nearst christening. Add to that the enviable development setup and recruitment, and they have no need to break the rules.

It isn't on them to change or for the comp to handicap them. Other clubs - mine included - need to find their own methods to draw and develop, rather than complaining about Geelong getting a leg up.

 

[Cyclops]

I’m more interested in knowing what the elephant juice was that they were all on around the 2009 GF.

I watched Paul Chapman rip his hammy in that GF, go off, then come back on and win the Norm Smith.

I heard he ate his own leg then grew another.

Jokes aside, 2006-2010 are the Dank Years. It's a credit to Scott and Geelong they overcame that legacy to create the enviable club they have now.

 

[PhatBoy]

I heard he ate his own leg then grew another.

Jokes aside, 2006-2010 are the Dank Years. It's a credit to Scott and Geelong they overcame that legacy to create the enviable club they have now.

Yes, we certainly consider them the Dank years by virtue of using one legal supplement to treat one injury of one bottom 6 player, purchased through a company that had some sort of link to him without actually having him in their employ.

Same as how the Lions probably consider 01-04 the Zanotti years or something after some of his former Bears teammates had a beer with him one night

 

[Leeda]

There's several levels to what Geelong do and have done.

Firstly, they genuinely do not give a **** about their list demographics. They're willing to wait - see Zac Guthrie - until a player is 26+ for them to come good, developing discarded and mature talent well after most clubs would discard them. This means when a player becomes AFL quality they are mature as well as AFL capable; they have more composure and understanding for the game than their 21 year old counterparts. Where another club might field a mature age player, Geelong takes a player who is marginal but with AFL footy intelligence and spends the time it takes - however long that is - to get them AFL ready.

This means that their bit parts - those that aren't immediately AFL capable at 18-21 - wind up being better/stronger and possessing more composure than their opposition equivalents. As a team, they don't react to tackling the way other teams do; they have a higher ceiling for received pressure than other teams, by virtue of carrying less young players.

The next thing Geelong do is they have a development cordon down there that is unrivaled by anyone except Sydney. They have a bizarre combination of country footballers - with the requisite toughness inherent in what that entails - and the elite competition you see in larger settlements. You also have a coaching group and scouts inherent to the area, with connections throughout; if there's a talent playing local or state footy, they're odds on to hear it first. They get players into the Geelong sphere, and once in there's no real getting them out.

Thirdly, Geelong's a weird place. Footy is a cult down there, and Kardinia's the cathedrel; you either go for Geelong, you're a ****ing unicorn, or you don't follow the sport. There's three principle interests down there - footy, surfing, and ignoring everything else - and that plays into how Geelong footballers are treated. Imagine, local footy big fish in a small pond stuff, but with AFL financing; that's what these blokes get. They get first look at the butcher's meat; they get free beer and spirits at any pub they walk into; they get first look at property and businesses; they get cars on the down low. This is all my opinion - for the sake of those reading this - but the way Geelong treats its footballers both while they are playing and afterwards is a huge component to why players want to end their careers down there. There's the financially comfortable you'd get playing for Essendon or Carlton, then there's the marginally less financially comfortable you'd get from much less stress whilst being treated like a ****ing god whilst living near the beach or on a farm.

And yes, Geelong players do seem to find their fingers in property just about to be sold at much higher cost or a business just about to take off at above average rates than elsewhere. Just, I don't think this is a Geelong thing; professional sports have long had connections with lucrative business, and this'd be rather widespread AFL wide. Only difference is Geelong have Torquay and a lot of fast rising property prices closer to them, where everyone in Melbourne is competitng for this sort of thing.

Not a single thing has ever been proven concerning Geelong's salary cap, and that's for pretty good reason: they don't need to. The community around them ensures that contemporary footballers don't need to breach the rules to get first choice at the local IPA, first drink at the local pub, firstborn at the nearst christening. Add to that the enviable development setup and recruitment, and they have no need to break the rules.

It isn't on them to change or for the comp to handicap them. Other clubs - mine included - need to find their own methods to draw and develop, rather than complaining about Geelong getting a leg up.

There is a word I can not explain but we're are all spinsters...gather your tents

 

[Wojcinski]

Jokes aside, 2006-2010 are the Dank Years. It's a credit to Scott and Geelong they overcame that legacy to create the enviable club they have now.

cope harder

 

[Footy Smarts]

The beautiful thing is that we wouldn't be close to maxed out on the salary cap. Compare our list to teams like Brisbane or Carlton and we would have a tonne of room.

I can't wait for the tears to really hit when target Reid, Butters and Cadman in the next few years.

 

[Port 2004]

The beautiful thing is that we wouldn't be close to maxed out on the salary cap. Compare our list to teams like Brisbane or Carlton and we would have a tonne of room.

I can't wait for the tears to really hit when target Reid, Butters and Cadman in the next few years.

You won’t get Butters as he is about to rs-sign with Port.

 

[Cyclops]

cope harder

Whose coping? You beat us fair and square in 2011, extremely courageous victory when you were even more injured than we were.

2006-2010 its a different story. The whole crew was there. Mark "garage full of drugs, but none of them were mine" Thompson, Dank, The Weapon, the chemist. The club melted down, Ablett walked, Thompson retired.

Whats your version of events, they were all clean, nek minit James Hird mind controlled them? Talk about cope.

 

[Wojcinski]

Whose coping? You beat us fair and square in 2011, extremely courageous victory when you were even more injured than we were.

2006-2010 its a different story. The whole crew was there. Mark "garage full of drugs, but none of them were mine" Thompson, Dank, The Weapon, the chemist. The club melted down, Ablett walked, Thompson retired.

Whats your version of events, they were all clean, nek minit James Hird mind controlled them? Talk about cope.

He asks who's coping and then drops his biggest cope yet. Well done