Opinion Geelong Team of the 21st Century

[Mad_Hatter]

FB Milburn Scarlett Enright
HB Stewart Taylor Mackie
C Duncan Selwood Bartel
HF Chapman Mooney Ablett
FF Stokes Hawkins Johnson
Fol Ottens Dangerfield Ling
Int King Kelly Corey Blicavs

I'd have this but Wojo for Blicavs.
Mostly for "reality" reasons and pretending we were picking a team.
That side would be up there with any side, including "....of the century" sides, in history.

 

[cats_09]

I'd have this but Wojo for Blicavs.
Mostly for "reality" reasons and pretending we were picking a team.
That side would be up there with any side, including "....of the century" sides, in history.

We should pick it as they do the AA side:

2 x tall defenders
2 x tall forwards
1 x ruck

Remainder = midfielders

 

[DAlembert]

As awesome as both are/were, I'd say both don't make it simply due to them having played a limited amount of games.

As amazing as Stewart is, Mackie played 280 games for us and won 3 flags and Stew hasn't even passed 70 games for us.

Egan was going to be special but cut down by injury. Stewart to small a data set so does not qualify ...yet. Well on the way tho.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Soft spot for the 2007 drought breakers to the point where I nearly put J.Hunt in the back pocket. Yes he was built like Tarzan and played like Jane but his kicking out in that season was lethal, I remember hearing Malthouse on the ABC radio during the gf describe his kicking as Exocet missiles.

Wojcinski was over hyped imo, he had a tendency to do stupid things and give away a lot of free kicks when he was trying to inject himself into a game that he was having zero impact in, but when he was up and going, he just made things happen.

Selwood and Ling very good captains, Harley helped change the entire club as well as being a very good intercept footballer in his own right. That period was built on the original defensive pillars of Harely, Scarlett and Milburn.

I struggled with the 2nd hff and fp so settled on Motlop and Stokes. Despite the criticisms, I was a fan of Motlop and his numbers were good and he averaged 1.33 goals per game over his last 6 seasons at the club. Stokes averaged 1.5 goals per game during the premiership period for the 5 seasons from '07 up to and including '11.

Oops, forgot Menzel. Menzel in, Stokes out.


B : Stewart Scarlett Harley (c)
HB : Enright Taylor Milburn
C : Bartel Corey Wojcinski
HF : Chapman Mooney Motlop
FF : Johnson Hawkins Menzel
R : Ottens Dangerfield Ablett
Int : Ling Selwood T. Kelly Mackie

Emg : J.Hunt J.Kelly Duncan Lonergan

I know this is each persons own thoughts but for those putting Blicavs in, which appears to be many, you're having a laugh surely?

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

What nonsense? He is one of the first picked in my team.

Yep, 6 or so Geelong players in the AA squad of 40 this season, Stewart was the only lock for mine.

I agree with you fully that once he is finished he may well be spoken about with Scarlett and Enright quite comfortably. I'm a massive fan of Enright but outside of longevity, I think Stewart is a better all round footballer than Boris.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Mackie grossly underrated by you. He was one of the engineers of our defence. To overlook him at this stage (19 years into the century) would be a travesty.

Mackie was a very poor defender for a large part of his career but the rest of the defence was so strong and the midfield assisting so great that we could get away with allowing his run, carry and finishing (although he could be very lazy with his kicking, same as Duncan now). After he was dropped for finals in 2010 I think he returned a much better and stronger footballer, I admired him greatly by the time he retired. For someone that wasn't physical (let's face it, he's a stick) to be backing into packs without looking by the end of his career was a great credit to himself.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

This is so silly.

I can understand selecting Stewart over Mackie - I did so myself - but to denigrate Mackie's overall ability and his contribution to the club demonstrates a failure to recognise excellence when you see it. He's not someone I'll put down as an all-time great like Enright but let's not get this twisted: Mackie was a gun. One of the best attacking half-backs in the comp for a long time, and defensively the times when he was beaten were few and far between. How often did his direct opponent rip him to shreds? It barely happened. Sure, he wasn't Enright-level in his impenetrability, but his defensive record was still pretty darn good. He also had the added bonus of being able to play on many different types of player. At a push he could even take the talls - I recall he took Buddy a couple of times and did a more than decent job.

Also Mackie's AA wasn't lucky. It was overdue.

As I mentioned in my previous post, you must just be remembering the last few seasons of his career, he was a horrible one on one defender for a lot of it. My biggest fear used to be the ball getting turned over and Mackie being caught out one on one with his direct opponent.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Our golden era small forwards are being hugely underrated in this thread. We were the best attacking team in the comp by a mile and had the best forwardline in the comp by a mile across 2007-11. Varcoe and Stokes were a bit part of that. Not a coincidence.

We had a very good forward line but I never thought it was anywhere near the best. What we did have was easily the best defence and midfield and close to the two best small forwards in the comp in Chapman and Johnson who could also both play midfield minutes to a high level.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Polly Farmer literally revolutionised the game. He and Stewart or Newman are incomparable.

Mackie was a lot more deserving than 1 AA too but you're living with revisionist history.

His 3 flags aren't irrelevant either considering he was good enough to play in our greatest team ever, in one of the greatest defences ever and never looked like being dropped.

Don't forget he's literally a Geelong Cats Hall of Famer.

Except for 2010 when he actually did get dropped for finals.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Ottens was sensational during the Premiership years. King was ok but Ottens kicked goals and was more effective around the ground. Ottens comfortably for me.

If you're going to can Mooney for letting the team down with his goal kicking, you surely can't give Ottens a pass. Ottens wasn't restricted to the '08 gf either, he was almost as big a choker as Ben Graham.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

What?

I said there's a difference between arguably the greatest player to ever play at his position and another amazing player, thus their game difference isn't as big of a deal. You're just being hyperbolic by using them as an example.

Stewart is a great player but has played less than 70 games and thus I don't think deserves a position in a 21st-century squad over a 3x flag winner who played almost 300 games and is in our Hall of Fame and based on that he deserves a spot over someone who's played 3 seasons here.

So uninjured, at the end of next season, Stewart will have played roughly the same amount of games as John Coleman and you're arguing if he deserves a position in Geelong's team of the 21st century thus far and then we have Coleman who in 98 games became a HoF Legend, full forward in the Hof team of the century and had the competition's leading goal kicking award named after him.

If you're good enough, you're good enough.

 

[Vdubs]

Except for 2010 when he actually did get dropped for finals.

The reasons he was dropped were not form.
Check out votes in his last H & A game.

 

[thecatattack]

Except for 2010 when he actually did get dropped for finals.

A year where he was pretty damn good and was dropped after a game where he wasn't even bad and proceeded to have arguably the most embarrassing loss in our clubs history in the PF.

He wasn't dropped on the basis of his form.

 

[thecatattack]

So uninjured, at the end of next season, Stewart will have played roughly the same amount of games as John Coleman and you're arguing if he deserves a position in Geelong's team of the 21st century thus far and then we have Coleman who in 98 games became a HoF Legend, full forward in the Hof team of the century and had the competition's leading goal kicking award named after him.

If you're good enough, you're good enough.

Then come back next season and argue it.

Coleman is also arguably the games greatest ever player and to use him in comparison to Stewart isn't the greatest of arguments imo.

 

[DAlembert]

If you're going to can Mooney for letting the team down with his goal kicking, you surely can't give Ottens a pass. Ottens wasn't restricted to the '08 gf either, he was almost as big a choker as Ben Graham.

Ottens was not a choker and neither was Ben Graham. Graham was a magnificent kick of a football. Problem was the modern game required footballers to kick a lot shorter this was to the detriment of players like Graham and Hunt. Big Ben was a bit soft tho. Yeh I remember the close in miss by Ottens just PP execution. We did kick 6 Goals 20 behinds after qtr time with of course that strategy of Hawthorn about half those points...Shocker

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Then come back next season and argue it.

Coleman is also arguably the games greatest ever player and to use him in comparison to Stewart isn't the greatest of arguments imo.

The purpose of the comparison was that you don't have to play 200+ games to be considered in the top echelon. People are basically arguing in some instances that Mackie is better than Stewart because he played 280 odd games and in 3 premierships.

 

[thecatattack]

The purpose of the comparison was that you don't have to play 200+ games to be considered in the top echelon. People are basically arguing in some instances that Mackie is better than Stewart because he played 280 odd games and in 3 premierships.

Stewart is a great player and I've said that.

But I don't think someone who's been playing such a short time deserves to take the spot of someone who's a literal Geelong Cats HoF member.

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

Stewart is a great player and I've said that.

But I don't think someone who's been playing such a short time deserves to take the spot of someone who's a literal Geelong Cats HoF member.

They do if they're a better footballer.

Since the current format of the annual All Australian side was first introduced in 1991, I'm struggling to find anyone outside of Ben Hart and Tom Stewart who have been AA in both of their 2nd and 3rd years. David King did it in his 4th and 5th, Ricciuto did it in his 2nd season but then waited 3 years for his next, Ben Cousins did it in his 3rd and 4th years. I know with the exception of King who was also a mature aged selection that Tom was a lot older than Hart, Cousins, Ricciuto etc, but that is still some rarefied air that he's in.

 

[Sparkle]

B: Mackie, Lonergan, Scarlett
HB: Enright, Taylor, Harley
C: Bartel, Kelly, Duncan
HF: Johnson, Mooney, G. Ablett
FF: Chapman, Hawkins, Stokes
R: Ottens, Dangerfield, Selwood (C)
INT: King, Corey, Ling, Blicavs

 

[Sttew]

B: Mackie, Lonergan, Scarlett
HB: Enright, Taylor, Harley
C: Bartel, Kelly, Duncan
HF: Johnson, Mooney, G. Ablett
FF: Chapman, Hawkins, Stokes
R: Ottens, Dangerfield, Selwood (C)
INT: King, Corey, Ling, Blicavs

Which Kelly?

 

[Sparkle]

Which Kelly?

James

 

[Seeds]

Looking back over things, it seems the season played out differently from above.

Blake didn't struggle that much in the absence of Ottens and having a new ruck partner in Mumford. He had 3 "down" weeks over rounds 11, 12 & 13 before he missed 4 weeks between rounds 16 & 19 (it wasn't a 6 week period).

Yes Mumford did ok as the second ruck that year (definitely didn't carry us), but he's most impressive games were in the absence of another recognised ruck - so maybe the coaches had concerns about how well he would work with Ottens back in the side.

Blake's 2009 stats:
View attachment 759904

Mumford’s 2009 stats:
View attachment 759903

I suppose ifi ts 4 weeks and not 6 it completely changes my story. I was wrong. Blake carried the ruck even when he was dropped to the vfl.

 

[Seeds]

Interesting way you recall the season. Not my recollection. Blake was more than useful as a tap ruckman while Ottens was out. In the end, it worked out as it should have. We had 3 supporting rucks for Ottens who all were involved in premierships, and greedy Mummy left for greener pastures, and also played in a flag team.

So what is your explanation for why blake spent a month in the vfl and mumford rucked on his own in his first season?

 

[Sttew]

The purpose of the comparison was that you don't have to play 200+ games to be considered in the top echelon. People are basically arguing in some instances that Mackie is better than Stewart because he played 280 odd games and in 3 premierships.

But you have to also ask why did Mackie play 280 games and play in 3 premierships. It was no accident, and it's not as if we had a dearth of talent in defence. For most of his career he held his position comfortably

 

[Herne Hill Hammer]

But you have to also ask why did Mackie play 280 games and play in 3 premierships. It was no accident, and it's not as if we had a dearth of talent in defence. For most of his career he held his position comfortably

We had plenty of better defenders than Mackie. Mackie fitted perfectly into the way Geelong played during his career, he was a fine footballer I just happen to think Stewart is a much better defender.