Geelong - Too old, too slow?

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catscollector

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 30, 2018
5,336
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You reap what you sow Robert.

Always concerned with point scoring over discussions years prior by reminding people of wrong viewpoints, which you yourself have plenty as well.
Always concerned with shitting over the club you claim to love.

Never happy when said behaviour is questioned.
You were good value until 2014 finals, got bundled out meekly and you've been off your rocker ever since.


Nothing at all.

People of that persuasion also try to tell all and sundry some of our players are old and cooked.
Selwood being one, he isn't judged as such based off his whole career output now is he. It's based of recent season(s).

But Hawkins performances in finals cannot be similarly based off recent season(s).
Double standards.

Unlike your great self, I actually don't rate my club as highly as most.
I think we have been living off past glory days. A few of our players drink their own bath water.

This club is continually lauded by many in the media for maintaining a yearly top eight finish. There's very little attention paid to what we do in finals.
Sydney and Geelong get the biggest leg up in the game. Our home ground advantage will forever ensure we are in the hunt for finals.
Even when we had a disastrous team in the late 90s, Clark, Corrigan, Bamford, Houlihan, Rahilly, Mensch, Steinfort, Arnott, Lowther, Lynch . . . we never hit rock bottom because of our home ground advantage.

Fast forward to the new age of free agency and no one does it better than Stephen Wells at Geelong.
Yearly top ups and players who are seasoned and know how to win.
It's a recipe for home & away success.
 

GhostofJimJess

Brownlow Medallist
Jan 14, 2002
10,561
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Even when we had a disastrous team in the late 90s, Clark, Corrigan, Bamford, Houlihan, Rahilly, Mensch, Steinfort, Arnott, Lowther, Lynch . . . we never hit rock bottom because of our home ground advantage.
Just as well you didn't mention that great Tiger champion Craig Biddiscombe in there ....
 

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Art Vandelay_

TheBrownDog
Oct 28, 2012
93,888
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Unlike your great self, I actually don't rate my club as highly as most.
I think we have been living off past glory days. A few of our players drink their own bath water.
How would you know? Not like you ever bother to ask.
I would have rated us a 4-7th team prior to the season, now more 6th to 10th.
This club is continually lauded by many in the media for maintaining a yearly top eight finish. There's very little attention paid to what we do in finals.
Sydney and Geelong get the biggest leg up in the game. Our home ground advantage will forever ensure we are in the hunt for finals.
Even when we had a disastrous team in the late 90s, Clark, Corrigan, Bamford, Houlihan, Rahilly, Mensch, Steinfort, Arnott, Lowther, Lynch . . . we never hit rock bottom because of our home ground advantage.
And also disadvantaged by it as well. Playing 13/22 games away from home is less than every club. But yes it will likely soften any fall we ever look like taking for the foreseeable future.

The media won't go after coaches who get their teams into finals consistently. Even now they're not going that hard at Hinkley. Why would you expect any different? That doesn't mean that we aren't critiqued for finals performances. We are. Both professionally by major football media outlets, and by fans all around the country.

But ultimately I think your frustration fails to take into account a couple of things.

1. Clubs will behave and think relative to what phase they believe to be in. Ours is one that believes it can make finals almost every year so will plan accordingly. But that doesn't mean that no young players get in. We have 7-8 in the team that are 23 and under. Holmes injury will change that. But because they believe they can play finals they won't compromise wins in the short term for extra youth, like you want.

2. Ultimately football, cricket, basketball etc is no different than the cinemas, paintball or the zoo. It is a vehicle for the masses to spend the discretionary spending portion of their weekly wage to be entertained. That's it. AFL Clubs are run not for the express purpose of making profits, nor is the AFL. Not to say that profits are disregarded. Long term survival depends on a sustainable product. Custodians, coaches and players will change. Draft picks will replenish annually but at the heart of it 18 AFL clubs will seek to entertain and immerse their fans. Nothing more. While results are important as watching a team win very little over many seasons/decades does diminish watchability ultimately flags aren't the be all and end all. Being able to provide an escape from the daily grind of life for hundred's of thousands of footy lovers is what it boils down to. Our club is still achieving this now. Despite an ageing squad, unbalanced list and finals fatigue.
 

WillHayward

Norm Smith Medallist
Suspended
Aug 13, 2018
9,866
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South Melbourne
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Can't understate the importance of Tom Stewart for the last 6 seasons.

The man is truly a champion player.

A real shame he won't play in a Premiership but he's single handedly kept Geelong competitive and hardly missed a game in that time.

Without him the fall would have happened already.
 
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PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
32,321
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AFL Club
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Unlike your great self, I actually don't rate my club as highly as most.
I think we have been living off past glory days. A few of our players drink their own bath water.

This club is continually lauded by many in the media for maintaining a yearly top eight finish. There's very little attention paid to what we do in finals.
Sydney and Geelong get the biggest leg up in the game. Our home ground advantage will forever ensure we are in the hunt for finals.
Even when we had a disastrous team in the late 90s, Clark, Corrigan, Bamford, Houlihan, Rahilly, Mensch, Steinfort, Arnott, Lowther, Lynch . . . we never hit rock bottom because of our home ground advantage.

Fast forward to the new age of free agency and no one does it better than Stephen Wells at Geelong.
Yearly top ups and players who are seasoned and know how to win.
It's a recipe for home & away success.


I always thought everyone went out and played afl in an 18 on 18 environment - now I’m discovering that the ground actually plays as well and it’s the only reason we don’t bottom out.

Amazing how Newcastle, North Queensland, St George Illawarra and Canberra routinely go through periods of failure despite fielding extra numbers via their home ground
 

catscollector

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 30, 2018
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I always thought everyone went out and played afl in an 18 on 18 environment - now I’m discovering that the ground actually plays as well and it’s the only reason we don’t bottom out.

Amazing how Newcastle, North Queensland, St George Illawarra and Canberra routinely go through periods of failure despite fielding extra numbers via their home ground

Rugby league ground dimensions are usually the same for every venue.

In the AFL, they are not. And no ground is as individually unique as what Kardinia Park is.
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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Rugby league ground dimensions are usually the same for every venue.

In the AFL, they are not. And no ground is as individually unique as what Kardinia Park is.


So what. Why do we keep winning everywhere else then? Why did west coast who played until a few years ago on the ground closest in dimensions to ours, suck harder than Linda Lovelace when they came to Geelong but Sydney who’s ground least resembles ours didn’t?

How long is everyone going to hide behind this stupid home ground business? Even one of the seasons you are using to prop up your argument - 1999 - we went 4-5 at KP and 5-7 everywhere else.
In 1998 we went 3-6 at KP and 6-7 everywhere else. Is that why we didn’t hit rock bottom? Because we played worse at our home ground than we did everywhere else?

It’s not that hard to use the internet


For someone who despises people making excuses for our club, players and coach over a decade of sustained decency without a trophy, you sure make a lot of excuses for the teams who continually lose to use at our ground or theirs.
 

Happy Mastenator

Chris Masten's Sock Puppet
Apr 16, 2010
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Geelong midfield is cooked in terms of being premiership level. Selwood and Danger are old/played a lot of games (and their game style is brutal on them) between the rest, either old or just ordinary, there isn’t much there against top line midfields
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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Geelong midfield is cooked in terms of being premiership level. Selwood and Danger are old/played a lot of games (and their game style is brutal on them) between the rest, either old or just ordinary, there isn’t much there against top line midfields


I think the problem in our midfield compared to say Melbourne for an obvious example, is that all our players regardless of age can play A role, but none of them are good enough or are past their peak preventing them from playing multiple roles.

Ie. a guy like Petracca is great at winning the ball, uses it well, runs well, tackles well, etc etc.
most of our mids can still do SOMETHING to an elite level but aren’t elite at 4-5 aspects like they either used to be or have never been
 

Shadow89

Brownlow Medallist
Feb 20, 2018
11,605
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This title needs to be changed to 'Geelong midfield, too old, too slow' - and I'd be perfectly alright with that. Everywhere else is getting an injection of youth:
- Henry, SDK, Atkins, O'Connor, Zuthrie, all 26 or under in defence.

- Close, Ratugolea, Miers, Stengle, Dempsey all 26 or under in attack.

- Midfield, however, is literally Parfitt, Holmes and sometimes Narkle - who gets pushed forward anyway due to the established mids. Selwood, Danger, Duncan, Menegola, Guthrie, I. Smith, Higgins, Dahlhaus etc. Stephens should get a game soon, and Knevitt, Whyte and Willis were all only drafted last year, so it's clearly a focus for the future, but has been put off far too long, IMO.

- Our rucks are a mess as well, with Blicavs, Stanley and a hobbled Ceglar as our options, all being over 30 - so it's clearly between the arcs where we're most deficient. This showed during the hammering we copped from Port and Melbourne last Finals series, and is why we drafted a whole bunch of mids and a 10 year ruck in Conway last year - given it's where we need to start investing.

**********************************************************

Cameron and Hawkins up front, with Stengle, Miers, Close Ratugolea, Dempsey etc. all playing supporting roles, is a good balance.

Stewart and Blics (when he plays down back) is fine with Henry, Atkins, Bews, O'Connor, Kolodjashnij, Tuohy all playing supporting roles in defence, is a good balance.

The midfield however, is an abject joke and needs to be fixed immediately. Holmes has been a good start, but he's still got a lot of growth to go and is years off leading that midfield. Parfitt is a good role player, but will never be that match winner we need. Stephens could be interesting if he FINALLY gets a run of games with Holmes' injury, but outside of that, it's all a big 'wait and see' with the rest of the developing mids in our reserves. Narkle has talent, but it's hard to include him given his injury history and his propensity to be weak defensively.

Our midfield is the key issue that plagues us week in, week out - but no-one at Geelong seems willing to acknowledge it, even though half of them are injured every other week. I would love for us to go hard this trade/draft period, and bring in Bruhn, draft Jhye Clark and maybe get a fringe player in from a Carlton/Melbourne/Sydney/Brisbane that could help accelerate the rebuild. I don't see it happening yet, but hopefully we start getting out sh*t together as finals evaporates towards the pointy end of the year.
 

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Happy Mastenator

Chris Masten's Sock Puppet
Apr 16, 2010
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I think the problem in our midfield compared to say Melbourne for an obvious example, is that all our players regardless of age can play A role, but none of them are good enough or are past their peak preventing them from playing multiple roles.

Ie. a guy like Petracca is great at winning the ball, uses it well, runs well, tackles well, etc etc.
most of our mids can still do SOMETHING to an elite level but aren’t elite at 4-5 aspects like they either used to be or have never been
Yeah I would have backed Selwood and danger head to head with Petracca and Oliver in their primes. 650 odd games between them now though and they can’t do it, they can do it for a quarter here or there, but not full games against the best. Time is a cruel mistress
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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Yeah I would have backed Selwood and danger head to head with Petracca and Oliver in their primes. 650 odd games between them now though and they can’t do it, they can do it for a quarter here or there, but not full games against the best. Time is a cruel mistress


Yep very fair assessment. Selwood is still very good with his disposal and in short bursts very good at the contested ball. Dangerfield is still a bull around stoppages and clearances but his disposal if anything is getting worse. Duncan has never been a great contested player but he’s literally not a contested player at all anymore, smith is a good runner and pretty good by foot most of the time but doesn’t win the ball. Guthrie is the closest we have to an ‘all rounder’ especially while Menegola is unavailable but he’s not a certified gun at any particular aspect of midfield play. Parfitt is a tremendous physical presence but his skills and ability to find lots of ball let him down.
 

Partridge

Hall of Famer
Nov 12, 2002
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Yeah I would have backed Selwood and danger head to head with Petracca and Oliver in their primes. 650 odd games between them now though and they can’t do it, they can do it for a quarter here or there, but not full games against the best. Time is a cruel mistress

Yep we saw that quite clearly in the Prelim when they tried it.
 

Elixuh

See you on the 9th green at 9
Oct 27, 2011
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Didn't realise Geelong get to play North and WCE twice this year. Interesting draw for a repeat top 4 team with a significant home ground advantage. Will be there come finals time and will be a tough team to beat.
 

PhatBoy

Hall of Famer
May 5, 2016
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Didn't realise Geelong get to play North and WCE twice this year. Interesting draw for a repeat top 4 team with a significant home ground advantage. Will be there come finals time and will be a tough team to beat.


West coast finished 9th last yeah and were entrenched in the 8 before dropping their last 4 games so it’s not as though we were given a double up against two already terrible sides it has just worked out that way because of what west coast are going through and dishing up atm
 

year of the cat

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 27, 2006
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Whilst the jibes about us being Dad’s Army have some credibility, we’ve also managed to introduce Holmes, Stephens, Knevitt, Close, Dempsey, Evans and Stengle (albeit a young, mature aged recruit) over the past couple of seasons.

We’ll still need to inject a couple of elite kids to add to this group but those that say we are devoid of young talent are not watching us closely.

I expect that we’ll fall outside the 8 over the next season or two but I don’t think we’ll experience the cataclysmic drop that many expect (and hope!). We could really rebuild pretty quickly with the core of kids we now have.
 

Sttew

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 28, 2006
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Whilst the jibes about us being Dad’s Army have some credibility, we’ve also managed to introduce Holmes, Stephens, Knevitt, Close, Dempsey, Evans and Stengle (albeit a young, mature aged recruit) over the past couple of seasons.

We’ll still need to inject a couple of elite kids to add to this group but those that say we are devoid of young talent are not watching us closely.

I expect that we’ll fall outside the 8 over the next season or two but I don’t think we’ll experience the cataclysmic drop that many expect (and hope!). We could really rebuild pretty quickly with the core of kids we now have.
+ DeKoning. A classic case of patiently preparing a kid for the rigours of AFL. This is his 3rd season and only now is he getting a regular game. He is going to be a star
 

catscollector

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 30, 2018
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West coast finished 9th last yeah and were entrenched in the 8 before dropping their last 4 games so it’s not as though we were given a double up against two already terrible sides it has just worked out that way because of what west coast are going through and dishing up atm

Sorry but blind Freddy could tell West Coast were cooked very early in the year.
There was nothing to suggest they improve in 2022 as many had them struggling to even make finals along with Richmond.

And North Melbourne, lol, I think most had them bottom four again.
 

catscollector

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 30, 2018
5,336
6,767
AFL Club
Geelong
Whilst the jibes about us being Dad’s Army have some credibility, we’ve also managed to introduce Holmes, Stephens, Knevitt, Close, Dempsey, Evans and Stengle (albeit a young, mature aged recruit) over the past couple of seasons

Let's wait and see if Chris Scott picks these youngsters in a final.

One gets the feeling it will be back to Dad's Army for a must win scenario.
 

year of the cat

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 27, 2006
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Let's wait and see if Chris Scott picks these youngsters in a final.

One gets the feeling it will be back to Dad's Army for a must win scenario.
I hope not. I’d like to think that Close, Holmes, Stengle and DeKoning are now “best 22” and that by years end so will Stephens. The others are unlikely this year to play in a big final though.
 

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