Preview Geelong V Brisbane Thu Jun 24 720 pm @ Gabba

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CatToTheFuture

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Even when Melbourne were sitting atop with an 8-0 record all the talk was about Brisbane and their 5 match winning streak.

And Melbourne accounted for Brisbane easily not that long ago.

If I had my choice to play any side currently in the 8 in the finals it would be Brisbane and I wouldn't care if it was played at their local racetrack.

Does it mean we'll win this game? No

Let's wait until the whips are cracking and watch them fold like origami.
I don't remember all the talk being about Brisbane at all. But also, talk in general is misleading. Maybe people were talking about Brisbane because repeating yourself about Melbourne for 9th week running isn't going to bring in any more radio listeners ?
 

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catempire

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That’s because, unlike Kolo, they represent about 5% of his involvement in play. Kolo, it’s probably hitting 70% (so he does do the odd good thing in the 7 touches a game he gets).
You would have Kolo’s head on a stick for this:

3414796C-2F43-44B1-ACD1-57DF56896D08.gif


Lucky Hannan fell over or Stewart would have been responsible for the first two goals of the game.
 

Cataholic

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You would have Kolo’s head on a stick for this:

View attachment 1161054

Lucky Hannan fell over or Stewart would have been responsible for the first two goals of the game.
Yep, he makes mistakes, but they don't appear to happen as often as they do with others, and he imparts far more reassurance with ball in hand than others do.
 

catempire

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Yep, he makes mistakes, but they don't appear to happen as often as they do with others, and he imparts far more reassurance with ball in hand than others do.
Thank you for the latest example of the double standard. That’s right, he does make mistakes as does every player. Let’s observe and criticise them on their merits. Not excuse some and not others because we like certain players more than others.

By the way, I gave Stewart 5 votes (and but for David the Cat would have given him 15!). It’s possible to marvel at outstanding performance but be critical of mistakes simultaneously. It’s not all or nothing.
 

standupand

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That’s because, unlike Kolo, they represent about 5% of his involvement in play. Kolo, it’s probably hitting 70% (so he does do the odd good thing in the 7 touches a game he gets).
Stewart had an awesome game on Friday, but he did make some crucial errors too. The most glaring was when he turned the ball over through the middle in the 1st and then made little effort to chase back. The worst was in the final quarter when he was caught ball watching, zoned off his man McLean who ended up goalling for them to reclaim the lead late. Have a look at the behind the goal footage at 3.53 remaining in the 4th. Don't want to take the shine off a great performance, but seems relevant if we're to hold him to the same standards as others in his defensive work.
 

Cataholic

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Stewart had an awesome game on Friday, but he did make some crucial errors too. The most glaring was when he turned the ball over through the middle in the 1st and then made little effort to chase back. The worst was in the final quarter when he was caught ball watching, zoned off his man McLean who ended up goalling for them to reclaim the lead late. Have a look at the behind the goal footage at 3.53 remaining in the 4th. Don't want to take the shine off a great performance, but seems relevant if we're to hold him to the same standards as others in his defensive work.
I think the nuance here is that Stewart appears to do it less often than others, hence they take a greater share of the 'error limelight'.

I haven't seen anyone say Stewart doesn't make mistakes, I certainly don't, but to his credit he seems to make less of them. That doesn't absolve his errors, but they do seem more an anomaly when compared to others who are more error prone.
 

catempire

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Stewart had an awesome game on Friday, but he did make some crucial errors too. The most glaring was when he turned the ball over through the middle in the 1st and then made little effort to chase back. The worst was in the final quarter when he was caught ball watching, zoned off his man McLean who ended up goalling for them to reclaim the lead late. Have a look at the behind the goal footage at 3.53 remaining in the 4th. Don't want to take the shine off a great performance, but seems relevant if we're to hold him to the same standards as others in his defensive work.
Thank you for getting it.
 

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TheWoodenSlug

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Thank you for the latest example of the double standard. That’s right, he does make mistakes as does every player. Let’s observe and criticise them on their merits. Not excuse some and not others because we like certain players more than others.

By the way, I gave Stewart 5 votes (and but for David the Cat would have given him 15!). It’s possible to marvel at outstanding performance but be critical of mistakes simultaneously. It’s not all or nothing.
Not sure where you're getting this idea that Stewart is above criticism tbh. He had a couple of shocking moments early in the game and was criticized for them accordingly.

He more than made up for them throughout the rest of the game, as expected from a player of his caliber.

You compare it to criticism toward Kolo for his mistakes - when was the last time he was clearly BOG? Has he ever been?

Really good players get more leeway for mistakes than average players because a) it's more rare and b) they're far more likely to redeem themselves. That's not double standards imo.
 

Mad_Hatter

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I think the nuance here is that Stewart appears to do it less often than others, hence they take a greater share of the 'error limelight'.

I haven't seen anyone say Stewart doesn't make mistakes, I certainly don't, but to his credit he seems to make less of them. That doesn't absolve his errors, but they do seem more an anomaly when compared to others who are more error prone.
This is the problem with confirmation bias. Kolo might only make 1 or 2 mistakes a game but gets hounded for it, Stewart, by my count, made 6 mistakes that led to scoring shots on Friday night but doesn't cop the same amount of crap as Kolo for 1 or 2.
That's what CE is saying, people hold Kolo to insane standards yet don't hold players in similar positions to the same, due mostly to personal bias.
Personally I'm not a fan of Kolo either, I'd have him out of the side for Clark or another flanker unless we are playing a mostly tall forwardline.
 

catempire

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Not sure where you're getting this idea that Stewart is above criticism tbh. He had a couple of shocking moments early in the game and was criticized for them accordingly.

He more than made up for them throughout the rest of the game, as expected from a player of his caliber.

You compare it to criticism toward Kolo for his mistakes - when was the last time he was clearly BOG? Has he ever been?

Really good players get more leeway for mistakes than average players because a) it's more rare and b) they're far more likely to redeem themselves. That's not double standards imo.
Again, you are doing precisely what I’m talking about. Acknowledging the mistakes in one breath but then immediately suggesting they be treated different based on whether a player is BOG or not. That is the double standard.

A mistake is a mistake. It has consequences in its own right, regardless of what the player who committed it is capable of in other parts of the game.
 

Seeds

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This is the problem with confirmation bias. Kolo might only make 1 or 2 mistakes a game but gets hounded for it, Stewart, by my count, made 6 mistakes that led to scoring shots on Friday night but doesn't cop the same amount of crap as Kolo for 1 or 2.
That's what CE is saying, people hold Kolo to insane standards yet don't hold players in similar positions to the same, due mostly to personal bias.
Personally I'm not a fan of Kolo either, I'd have him out of the side for Clark or another flanker unless we are playing a mostly tall forwardline.
kolo doesn’t make 1 or 2. He makes a lot more. Its usually only 1-2 that result in goals. There are a lot more that don’t. No one focuses on those. We are focusing on Stewart’s for some reason though.

stewart saved atleast 8 scoring shots on the weekend. It more then offset the mistakes.

and on top created scoring shots from attacking play. His metres gains was the equivalent of a dominant Gary Ablett midfield game.

if kolo got all those intercepts and had all those attacking disposals. No one would Be hanging sh*t on kolo like a couple are hanging sh*t on Stewart right now.

there are two groups unhappy with Stewart’s dominance.

the kolo lovers. And the Enright lovers. It’s breeding Stewart hate.
 

Seeds

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Again, you are doing precisely what I’m talking about. Acknowledging the mistakes in one breath but then immediately suggesting they be treated different based on whether a player is BOG or not. That is the double standard.

A mistake is a mistake. It has consequences in its own right, regardless of what the player who committed it is capable of in other parts of the game.
No he isn’t. He is saying they were offset by other plays. he is not reducing their value.

10 saves minus 5 mistakes = net of 5 saves.
 

Cataholic

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This is the problem with confirmation bias. Kolo might only make 1 or 2 mistakes a game but gets hounded for it, Stewart, by my count, made 6 mistakes that led to scoring shots on Friday night but doesn't cop the same amount of crap as Kolo for 1 or 2.
That's what CE is saying, people hold Kolo to insane standards yet don't hold players in similar positions to the same, due mostly to personal bias.
Personally I'm not a fan of Kolo either, I'd have him out of the side for Clark or another flanker unless we are playing a mostly tall forwardline.
Again, I'm happy to admit that Stewart makes mistakes, and some of them in the last game were bad. Got absolutely no problem with that, and I don't think anyone else here does either.

It's the frequency with which those errors are made, week in, week out, that is the point being made. Yep, Stewart deserves a whack, just like others, but thankfully he doesn't commit them as often either.
 

catempire

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No he isn’t. He is saying they were offset by other plays. he is not reducing their value.

10 saves minus 5 mistakes = net of 5 saves.
Hypothetical:

We are 5 points up and a Geelong player gives away a push in the back free in front of opposition goal in the dying moments of a game. The opposition kicks a goal and wins. Everyone agrees the free kick cost us the game.

Under your framework the free kick conceded is less bad if the player who gave away the free was otherwise BOG. I’m saying that’s illogical; regardless of who gave it away it had the same cost and outcome and should be judged dispassionately in that way.
 

Play it Sam

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Again, you are doing precisely what I’m talking about. Acknowledging the mistakes in one breath but then immediately suggesting they be treated different based on whether a player is BOG or not. That is the double standard.

A mistake is a mistake. It has consequences in its own right, regardless of what the player who committed it is capable of in other parts of the game.
Hence elevated BP when Bews and Menegola do their usual OBF.
Not machines, but errors can be costly and unredeemable.
Can be used as motivation though, to make ammends.
See Dahlhaus.
 

Ricketz

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Again, I'm happy to admit that Stewart makes mistakes, and some of them in the last game were bad. Got absolutely no problem with that, and I don't think anyone else here does either.

It's the frequency with which those errors are made, week in, week out, that is the point being made. Yep, Stewart deserves a whack, just like others, but thankfully he doesn't commit them as often either.
Stewart averages 0.157 turnovers per possession this year.

Kolo averages 0.127 turnovers per possession.

Let's turn this into something evidence based.
 
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